Patch 7 for PC - Release Notes

I'm not sure. There is the higher resolution. And the short loading times are such a big improvement in my Shenmue experience that it makes up for a lot. I realized that I am much more motivated now to look just into random stores which took forever before.

But yeah I would wish for further improvement of sound quality (incl. music, dialogue etc...)
 
I'm not sure. There is the higher resolution. And the short loading times are such a big improvement in my Shenmue experience that it makes up for a lot. I realized that I am much more motivated now to look just into random stores which took forever before.
Yeah I guess depending on where you come from, your difinitive version is gonna vary. I personally don't like the ultra short load times. While they are great in most cases, there are alot of cases where its just very jarring. A nice 5 second pseudo loading screen would have done wonders in many cases, especially entering the tomato mart and negai industries...
 
I'm not sure. There is the higher resolution. And the short loading times are such a big improvement in my Shenmue experience that it makes up for a lot. I realized that I am much more motivated now to look just into random stores which took forever before.
I agree. Calling the Dreamcast versions definitive is taking a tremendous amount of I & II for granted.

A Shenmue experience that:

- Is accessible on modern platforms
- Is a cheaper purchase than potentially a single Dreamcast original (prices fluctuate, but I've seen Shenmue II still go for as much as £50)
- Is 1080p (or higher if on PC)
- Offers dual language support
- Offers left analogue stick controls in the first game
- Has SIGNIFICANTLY faster loading times
- Adds saving anywhere to the first game
- Makes collectibles easily trackable
- Gets rid of Shenmue IIx's motion blur and allows disabling of bloom
- Has an updated UI
- Offers other miscellaneous improvements like a higher poly Ryo model in the 70 man battle

... is not something to be hand-waved in favour of the Dreamcast originals because the ports are flawed. There are very crucial improvements, conveniences, and changes here.

I play these games once, maybe twice a year. It's been a habit since they first came out. First on Dreamcast, and later via emulator. My future playthroughs will be with Shenmue I & II for the reasons I wrote and more.

If anybody wants to stick with their Dreamcast that's fine too, but there's nothing definitive about it when you are giving up the features listed above.
 
It's also a Shenmue experience that:
- Frequently crashes, most frequently after fighting Gui Zhang, or after getting on the motorbike, or after playing OutRun, or after sleeping in Da Yuan Apartments, or after skipping the cutscene where you say goodbye to Wong, or after leaving Wan Chai, or after skipping Scout cutscenes, or after the bonus Fangmei cutscene, or after leaving Rocky Area.
- May as well still be 480p, as most textures and models have been untouched, leaving it looking as blurry and blocky at higher resolutions as it is at lower resolutions.
- Reduces audio quality significantly for no reason whatsoever.
- Is realistically English-only; you can play in Japanese, but only if you like awkward pauses between parts of dialog (that isn't there in the originals, because the re-releases use only the English timings).
- Removes analogue options (it doesn't add them - Shenmue IIx had analogue movement on the left thumbstick, whereas in the re-release the left thumbstick just clones the D-pad, being entirely digital).
- Breaks numerous other things, including, but not limited to: training in the car park, Space Harrier controls, fighting hit detection, annoying Mark, the timer in the motorbike section, Duck Racing HUD.
- Doesn't even have the promo movies or Passport.

I'll be doing my serious playthroughs on the Dreamcast, because it's the definitive version of the game. I care less for a save anywhere feature or in-game collectible tracking than I do the game generally working correctly. The convenience and reduced load times of the re-release is nice, but at the expense of general stability? No thanks.
 
I'd like some communication as to what's going on. Going dark is a little disrespectful to the fans imo.

Personally I think the ports are fine. I'm unlikely to play the DC versions very much anymore and I'm running mine on GDEMU. My experience before the patches was fine on my first play and now the patches are here much better. I had only one cut scene issue on my first play on Shenmue 1 but certainly concede the music on 2 was God awful and the mini games were buggered.

Both have merits but the pure get in a play factor of the modern game as well as upscaling sell it for me
 
What priorities you have as a player will be up to you, same with what flaws you are willing to put up with, and what you are not.

I don't want to hook my Dreamcast up - period. I don't want to play on an emulator that chugs when certain effects are on screen and crashes when it rains. I want to play in 1080p with super sampling up for a clean, crisp image that I think shows Shenmue at its best. I don't like Shenmue II's original analogue controls because the acceleration feels weird to me. I like being able to switch dialogue tracks from the menu, in the same playthrough. And everything else I just don't give enough of a shit about.

Not everybody will have the same perspective on that, and that's okay.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
I agree. Calling the Dreamcast versions definitive is taking a tremendous amount of I & II for granted.

A Shenmue experience that:

- Is accessible on modern platforms
- Is a cheaper purchase than potentially a single Dreamcast original (prices fluctuate, but I've seen Shenmue II still go for as much as £50)
- Is 1080p (or higher if on PC)
- Offers dual language support
- Offers left analogue stick controls in the first game
- Has SIGNIFICANTLY faster loading times
- Adds saving anywhere to the first game
- Makes collectibles easily trackable
- Gets rid of Shenmue IIx's motion blur and allows disabling of bloom
- Has an updated UI
- Offers other miscellaneous improvements like a higher poly Ryo model in the 70 man battle

... is not something to be hand-waved in favour of the Dreamcast originals because the ports are flawed. There are very crucial improvements, conveniences, and changes here.

I play these games once, maybe twice a year. It's been a habit since they first came out. First on Dreamcast, and later via emulator. My future playthroughs will be with Shenmue I & II for the reasons I wrote and more.

If anybody wants to stick with their Dreamcast that's fine too, but there's nothing definitive about it when you are giving up the features listed above.
I have to disagree wholeheartedly. Dreamcast version is easily the definitive version. Half the features you listed can be argued as being irrelevant or detrimental to the definitive experience. I too have been playing at least twice a year every year on Dreamcast and sometimes emulation, and will stick with those moving forward... But just for fun let's go down the list:

- Is accessible on modern platforms (irrelevant, Dreamcast is cheap and emulatable)
- Is a cheaper purchase than potentially a single Dreamcast original (prices fluctuate, but I've seen Shenmue II still go for as much as £50)(Again irrelevant, you can burn Dreamcast games for free or download them with a GDrom emulator)
- Is 1080p (or higher if on PC)(Good point, a feature that is certainly missed from Dreamcast version)
- Offers dual language support(Another good point, but mitigated by Shenmue Undub and similar projects)
- Offers left analogue stick controls in the first game(This is actually awful. I keep trying to turn my head with the left stick and he just awkwardly walks. More on this later.)
- Has SIGNIFICANTLY faster loading times(As I've mentioned, it's very jarring. There should be a 3-5 second buffer there between scenes as they weren't meant to transition that fast)
- Adds saving anywhere to the first game(Save anywhere was already in the first game, it was just a temporary save that couldn't be scummed)
- Makes collectibles easily trackable(Another good point)
- Gets rid of Shenmue IIx's motion blur and allows disabling of bloom(This was never a problem on the Dreamcast version)
- Has an updated UI(Which arguably looks bland and not very Shenmue-like, got rid of a lot of the old charm)
- Offers other miscellaneous improvements like a higher poly Ryo model in the 70 man battle(which just makes Ryo look even more jarring compared to the low poly enemy models lol)

So I'll concede to the one thing you really lose here that's actually important, resolution. That's the one factor to the new ports that I will actually miss when playing the Dreamcast versions. All the rest is really not even important, at least not to me. As I've said before depending on where you come from might change what factors you care about more...
Now, let's take a look at what we're missing out on while playing these new versions:

-An entire disk. ALL the passport features, gone. NO tutorials, No rewatching cutscenes, no character bios, no online scoreboards, no trading in cans for prizes, nothing. All gone. THIS ALONE would be reason enough to call Dreamcast version definitive IMO, but there's more, much much more...
-The most awkward control scheme ever. Not only did they butcher the old controls by moving the left stick to the right, but they didn't actually do anything to improve the controls at all beyond that. They actually TOOK AWAY the updated control scheme that was in Shenmue 2, which is much better for people who like modern control types. Control issues also persist in some of the arcade games that didn't have issues in Dreamcast version
-UI... now while we did get a nice clean HD UI, the originals just look far better in many ways. Being able to see your moves scale as you practice them, being able to see a nice bright colored button on screen for QTEs, stuff like that really is missing from the new ports...
-Various jarring graphical glitches. I'm not going to get too deep into these because many HAVE at least been fixed, but I can't help but laugh every time Ryo's jacket falls through the dojo floor. Also every time I name my kitten, the camera gets stuck on her for the whole scene. In Shenmue 2 it was raining inside. These things are still problems...
-More importantly, various jarring sound glitches. A ton of these have also been fixed, but SO MANY remain and they are awful. Footsteps on concrete may sound like a really goofy thing to complain about, but it's a staple sound that you literally hear through 80% of your gameplay while playing Dreamcast versions. It's gone. Music is fucked. Sounds randomly don't play or loop. I had to go through a whole scene in Bar Yokosuka with the sound of Ryo slurping Cola playing over and over again. Dialogue sounds awful because it doesn't fade in and out properly...
-As Duck mentioned, general stability. These new games crash sometimes, and are just full of all kinds of random bugs. I can't recommend these ports to anyone, not even newcomers, because it's such a jarring experience all around. It doesn't represent my favorite series well, and I'm frankly embarrassed and heartbroken over it. When a friend asks me about Shenmue, I shake my head in shame and do my best to get them to play on Dreamcast because I know they're gonna have a bad time on new consoles. But that's just me on a rant, different strokes and all...
 
I'm sure you spent a while writing that, but see my above post. People will have different priorities.
 
What priorities you have as a player will be up to you, same with what flaws you are willing to put up with, and what you are not.

I don't want to hook my Dreamcast up - period. I don't want to play on an emulator that chugs when certain effects are on screen and crashes when it rains. I want to play in 1080p with super sampling up for a clean, crisp image that I think shows Shenmue at its best. I don't like Shenmue II's original analogue controls because the acceleration feels weird to me. I like being able to switch dialogue tracks from the menu, in the same playthrough. And everything else I just don't give enough of a shit about.

Not everybody will have the same perspective on that, and that's okay.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And that's all fine and all, but you not wanting to hook up your Dreamcast up doesn't change the Dreamcast version's status as definitive. Personal tastes are obviously a factor here, but convenience has nothing to do with what makes a definitive version. Usually that's all about content and performance, both of which are better on Dreamcast...
 
This is semantics, but definitive is by definition a conclusion reached with authority; which none of us have, and even by your own admission you are fine with people having a difference preference.

A collective agreement to not yuck each other's yum is probably the most amicable way to put this.
 
And as an addendum, nobody really wants a minor civil war on this forum about which version really is definitive or not.

Part of the reason why I was okay with the actual remake/remaster getting canned was because we'd never hear the fucking end of debates on it being better/worse than the originals. Nobody wants an MGS1 vs Twin Snakes style battle going on for all time. We already had our appetiser in the past with Shenmue II DC vs Shenmue IIx, let's not make a meal out this.
 
Yeah I didn't want a remake either, I just wanted definitive ports. But I disagree we shouldn't be talking about these things. It's only a civil war if people participating are uncivilized, the rest of us call it a discussion and I love those kinds of things...
 
I'm very torn regarding which is the definitive version of the games. I can see all the issues with the re release but they also have alot of plusses. I will never stop playing the original DC version but i also think most of my playthroughs from now on will be from the new versions. I can understand the frustration from both camps, right now, i feel most of the major issues have been dealt with and aside from the hitbox, the rest of the issues are minor. Shenmue IIx also broke things with no ability to patch back then when it was ported so i feel is gonna be inevitable for such complex coded games like these for odd issues to happen. I'm just glad the game got enough patches for this not be a repeat of the Silent Hill Collection.
 
I don't like Shenmue II's original analogue controls because the acceleration feels weird to me.

confused-meme.jpg


The "acceleration" is exactly the same as on the trigger. You don't like analogue controls, but you want to use an analogue stick as a clumsy D-pad, and think it's an improvement over being able to choose to use analogue controls or not.

There are things in this world I will never understand.
 
Perhaps we can just agree that both versions have certain advantages over each other and not try to objectively label one version as definitive when in reality, it's a pretty subjective matter.

For many people, myself included, the ports are the definitive version. I like the convenience of playing the games without hooking up a Dreamcast or messing with an emulator, I love the QoL improvements such as saving anywhere, I think the game looks great in 1080p and I've barely experienced any crashes.

But yeah, I get that these things may not mean much to others and that their experiences may not have been as smooth as mine, so if they want to consider the originals as definitive then fine.

There's no real correct answer here, so let's not try to claim opinions as the objective truth.
 
Yeah I didn't want a remake either, I just wanted definitive ports. But I disagree we shouldn't be talking about these things. It's only a civil war if people participating are uncivilized, the rest of us call it a discussion and I love those kinds of things...
People can have the discussions if they like. Just don't expect everybody to remain diplomatic permanently.

confused-meme.jpg


The "acceleration" is exactly the same as on the trigger. You don't like analogue controls, but you want to use an analogue stick as a clumsy D-pad, and think it's an improvement over being able to choose to use analogue controls or not.

There are things in this world I will never understand.
And as if by magic...

*Disclaimer - literally my only experience of Shenmue II's analogue controls is playing on emulator so forgive me if this is a known issue with the controller plugin, or not messing with sensitivity settings in the emulator options.

I don't like Ryo's acceleration on the stick. When you turn left or right Ryo breaks out into a jog or run. I just find it imprecise and twitchy, and prefer to control Ryo's acceleration separately on the trigger.

I know exactly what I said, and what I meant, so hopefully the elaboration helps you understand my position better.
 
Just don't expect everybody to remain diplomatic permanently.

And as if by magic...
To be fair his question makes sense, but I have a feeling something is wrong with your controller settings based on what you've said...

On the general topic, "Definitive version" doesn't mean "version I like to play the most", it means "version which most accurately represents what the game is/is supposed to be" and frankly that's the Dreamcast version IMO. The ports got rid of too much content and added too many glitches to be considered definitive, while really not adding much of value other than resolution... The Dreamcast version is simply missing pixels, while the ports are missing a lot more than that...
 
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I don't like Ryo's acceleration on the stick. When you turn left or right Ryo breaks out into a jog or run. I just find it imprecise and twitchy, and prefer to control Ryo's acceleration separately on the trigger.

I know exactly what I said, and what I meant, so hopefully the elaboration helps you understand my position better.

It doesn't. That explains why you prefer digital controls. It doesn't explain why you prefer a clunky method of digital controls.
 
It doesn't. That explains why you prefer digital controls. It doesn't explain why you prefer a clunky method of digital controls.
Speaking of controls I have to say I find myself switching between dpad and the analogue stick every now and again, almost without noticing. Does anyone else?

Edit: seems I've derailed this. Ignore my comment and carry on with patch discussion lol
 
- May as well still be 480p, as most textures and models have been untouched, leaving it looking as blurry and blocky at higher resolutions as it is at lower resolutions.
Simply untrue. Improved texture filtering, anti-aliasing and supersampling (not to mention 16:9) all improve the image quality significantly. The Dreamcast version is a shimmering, jaggy mess by comparison. See for yourself. You could use a crazy expensive DC HDMI box + mCable setup and the Dreamcast version still wouldn't look half as clean as the HD version.

It's fine to prefer the Dreamcast version -- that I understand -- but don't pretend it's better in every way. There are pros and cons to each.
 
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