Impressions on the plot and the ending (only read if you finished the game)

[Seraph87]

Hi everyone! I took the opportunity of the Shenmue 3 release to finally register here after reading on the site and in the forum since the original games. :)

I was one of the lucky ones who received the game already on Friday and after a very Shenmue-busy weekend I finished the game just now. All in all I absolutely loved the game regarding the gameplay, presentation and all the little details but it would be a major understatement, to say the least, that I was disappointed by the plot and the ending in particular. I was aware that Suzuki has always been open about the fact that he won‘t end the storyline with this game but seriously, what was he thinking?

We are basically back to square one now and the ending is even worse and more open than the cliffhanger for Shenmue 2, and in addition we only learned very few new things about the mirrors and Lan Di. I can‘t believe we are stuck with this again, together with all the new questions. What was Shenhua doing to the thug? Who was the woman who wanted to kill Lan Di? What will be in the temple, what is the treasure? What was up with the cave, was it really just a relief on the wall and we should forget about all the sword magic?

I really admire Suzuki to be so confident about Shenmue 4 but I really expected more substance for the overarching storyline and not the majority only covering Ryo‘s training. What do you think about all this, are you disappointed as well? Or was the new information enough for you?

 

[kaliskonig91]

Yeaaaah I've been watching streams and this person is at least halfway through the plot of the second town and so far its been "Ryo gets his ass kicked, Ryo trains, Ryo learns new move". I was hoping this wasn't going to end on another "more questions than answers" type of deal. I assume that Shenmue 4 is a guarantee even if 3 doesn't sell well thanks to the epic deal but who wants to wait another 2-3 years again when this game seems to give us less significant plot points than even Shenmue 1 did. lol

But there is story DLC coming apparently so I wonder what it will cover.

 

[code l name]

If you haven’t completed game please do not read-




I just completed the game, I want to process my thoughts before a detailed post but my first impressions of the ending section and story is a feeling of disappointment and feeling underwhelmed. Like seriously one button QTE to best Lan Di’s henchman? Enemy rush leading to such a anticlimactic fight against red snake head honcho? There was literally nothing in the castle outside a random side quest which didn’t feel appropriate given tone of story?

Obviously the power struggle between Niao Sun and Lan Di will be driving force moving forward but it felt the plot was spinning its wheels for most of game repeating essentially same story from Bailu of chasing thugs, being soundly beaten and then getting a powerful move to overcome them (same move one just a counter). The stakes weren’t really raised by the story.

I felt we didn’t really get much more into the promise of finding out about mirrors, Shenhu’s fathers family role in their creation. Everything up in the air.

I need to stew on this more but man, I’m bummed.

 

[kaliskonig91]

Wow...Just witnessed the ending. It's like Yu didn't put much effort into the final segment at all. The random side quest/Pawn Shop...Your allies not really being fleshed out much. Lan-Di's personal henchmen being literal jokes. The Red Snake Leader not being fleshed out at all (I dont think we even learn his name) and his final battle being lame, Niao Sun...like thats all we got? No emotional dialogue between Lan-Di and Ryo. We learn NOTHING of the Chi You Men...like wow. I didn't think it was going to be that bad. That final segment felt so rushed.

And the biggest let down of it all...The final scene with them on the bridge. Had ZERO emotional weight behind it like the ending scenes of 1 and 2. Feels like stuff was rushed and cut for DLC. I'm disappointed in Yu with this one. He hyped up the final seige and he did not deliver on any note. And the Credits music is so bland.

That said everything else left me in awe at what they accomplished. This really was a worthy successor (minus the final segment)

 

[ren of heavens]

Hello Guys!

Well, i finished the game today as well, and i have pretty much the same feeling as you.
i spent the last 4 hours wondering, what did i learn from Shenmue 3 ? the man in the photo with Iwao, which i thought at 99.9%
should be Zhao Sunming, is Zhao Sunming indeed. what else, some details about the mirror, Shenhua used her power...Niao Sun wants to be the leader of the Chi You men...i even thought that Shenhua' s father will tell ryo a lot of information, and answer a lot of question...but nothing worth it. Finally, got no answer but a lot of new question and new mysteries.


In Niaowu, i spent a lot of time crying while reading the guestbook, that part was really emotional just like when we got out of the cave, i loved this moment.

i loved so much the background and atmosphere, felt like going home 18 years later. i really really loved the game, no doubt.

But yeah, im feeling a lot of frustration, i feel i've learn 2 info and the whole game was focusing on ryo' s kung fu, lose, train, beat them all... i'll develop later about my question and more deep thought. Maybe i'll get some answers by reading you guys, and by the way sorry for my english.

 

[ComfyBeats]

I feel like knowing that the game ends like this is more of a positive than anything, since now I can go into it knowing, "Yeah, not much will happen" instead of being supremely disappointed by the time I reach the credits. It's a bit of a shame that I have to temper my expectations like this, I was hoping that it'd give a proper ending to close somethings off in case there is no Shenmue 4, but enough to where each game feels like it's own standalone plot.
Its starting to feel like Shenmue 3 is meant to be less of a follow up and not necessairly a reboot, but a re-introduction/re-something to get in newcomers what with Ryo needing to train and there being a digest movie.

 

[kaliskonig91]

Sad thing is I can see reviews praising this as a worthy successor in all ways except the one that mattered most...The story and characters. Those two elements will definitely hold it back. IDK man after 18 years of waiting you would think we got SOMETHING significant from the story. As is the concepts Yu has discussed has told us more about the characters in Shenmue 3 than Shenmue 3 itself did. For example Niao Sun is said to use seduction as her method ...we see NONE OF THAT. No interaction with Lan-Di or anything. Shenmue 3 may be a bigger game than Shenmue 1...but Shenmue 1 felt like a complete story even with its mysteries. Shenmue 3 doesn't to me.

 

[ComfyBeats]

Sad thing is I can see reviews praising this as a worthy successor in all ways except the one that mattered most...The story and characters. Those two elements will definitely hold it back. IDK man after 18 years of waiting you would think we got SOMETHING significant from the story. As is the concepts Yu has discussed has told us more about the characters in Shenmue 3 than Shenmue 3 itself did. For example Niao Sun is said to use seduction as her method ...we see NONE OF THAT. No interaction with Lan-Di or anything. Shenmue 3 may be a bigger game than Shenmue 1...but Shenmue 1 felt like a complete story even with its mysteries. Shenmue 3 doesn't to me.

I'd argue even Shenmue 2's ending felt a bit more "complete". It felt like we're learning more about the world or at least untangling its mystery. I really want to see how Shenmue 4 follows up on this, if it happens.

 

[kaliskonig91]

Yeah I feel like Yu maybe had to make some major changes to the final segment in particular. I could be mistaken but I remember him implying or outright saying that the final siege would include a tactical segment were we decided what characters did what and even have multiple playable characters. It seems like he couldn't fully realize the segment and just had Ren tell each character what to do instead.

None of this happened that was said to be covered and a lot more sadly:


- Ryo, while still angry and thirsty for revenge, will grow and mature a lot throughout the game. Those he meets along the way, particularly where martial arts is concerned, will be largely responsible for this [5]

- The meaning behind the "He shall appear from a far eastern land across the sea..." prologue poem, as well as Ryo and Shenhua's roles in the prophecy, will finally be revealed [1]

- There will be "four main bosses," according to Yu Suzuki. Lan Di and Niao Sun are the only named bosses at present, the latter of whom has been described as "extremely beautiful and sexy, but cruel." The only information pertaining to the two remaining main bosses is that one of them is "[a] strategist using more cunning than head-on fighting" [39]
G: Will there be many new main characters introduced in Shenmue III that never appeared in previous Shenmue games?
YS: Yes, of course there will be.
G: Do you have any hints about those characters?
YS: There will be many new characters. There are the four main bosses. There will be Lan Di from the previous games, and two more fighters. One of those is an extremely beautiful and sexy, but cruel woman. I briefly introduced her image in Shenmue II, but in Shenmue III she will have a proper and extensive role. The last one, on the other hand, is strategist using more cunning than head-on fighting.


- Baisha (白沙, which translates as 'White Sand') is a village, notable for its numerous tulous, which is home to the Guilin branch of the Chi You Men. Baisha will see a number of new gameplay systems introduced to players, including "a siege game reminiscent of the Warring Kingdoms," which will presumably see the player defending allies from external attacks and engaging in battle with enemies attempting to gain control of the village's buildings, as well as an infiltration mission into the Chi You Men's branch (presumably on a mission to rescue Shenhua's imprisoned adoptive father). It is also during this infiltration mission the player will take advantage of the new 'Character Perspective System', allowing the player to swap between Ryo, Shenhua, and Ren, utilising each character's unique traits and abilities to achieve their goal

- The 'Character Perspective System', the second of the game's confirmed new mechanics, gives the player the ability to change the character they're playing as - with each character having their own distinct personalities, choices, and approach to the situation at hand - in order to complete their objective. Ryo's approach is that of fighting; Ren's is that of using a weapon; and Shenhua's is non-violent and tactical. This mechanic will feature in a single event [17]

- The 'Rapport System', the third of the game's confirmed new mechanics, will see Ryo and Shenhua's relationship vary depending on the player's actions towards, and interactions with, her, therefore affecting how cooperative and/or warm/cold she is in return, dictated by two underlying systems: the 'Affinity Rating' and 'Cooperative Quest'. The Affinity system extends beyond Shenhua, however, requiring Ryo to "get to know people" and "make a name for [himself]" to become more closely acquainted with certain NPCs. For example, conversing with a particular NPC while in the company of Shenhua will cause the former to be more open and friendly with Ryo on account of his relationship with the latter [17] [50]

 

[jsh020]

Yeah I'm ducking and covering whilst playing with fire from spoilers here, but I got the vibe of disappointment from the vague glimpses i saw. Without actually spoiling stuff on a scale 1-10 how would you rate it?

 

[quicktimefailure]

The last 20 or so minutes was me going from

To this

 

[danielmann861]

I couldn't help myself....I had to look. I just saw the ending.

So nothing gets explained?

No history of Ryo's father in Bailu?
No meaning to the mirrors?
No explanation of what Shenhua's poem means?

None of this gets explained in the 30 hours?


Without spoiling (because I only watched the last 15 minutes)
Did anything of interest of come up?

Also, did I just see Ren throw one of the mirrors out of the window in that final segment?

Oh boy, now I'm even more concerned about the state of SIV ever coming to fruition. Brave face put aside and complete honesty mode....I'd be shocked if SIV even happens.

 

[Seraph87]

Yeah I'm ducking and covering whilst playing with fire from spoilers here, but I got the vibe of disappointment from the vague glimpses i saw. Without actually spoiling stuff on a scale 1-10 how would you rate it?

After letting the disappointment sink in a bit, I would rate it a 3. There are a few nice segments in the finale but that‘s it, as it was already said, no emotional weight. But this is only for the ending, I really liked most of the game and would rate it an 8, I think.

And the biggest let down of it all...The final scene with them on the bridge. Had ZERO emotional weight behind it like the ending scenes of 1 and 2. Feels like stuff was rushed and cut for DLC. I'm disappointed in Yu with this one. He hyped up the final seige and he did not deliver on any note. And the Credits music is so bland.

That said everything else left me in awe at what they accomplished. This really was a worthy successor (minus the final segment)

It was obvious in every way that the finale was rushed and that they were very likely out of money and time, maybe also due to pressure by Deep Silver because of the multiple delays. The cutscenes were choppy and short, the fight with Lan Di was half-baked and they all didn‘t even have a proper conversation in the end on the boat.

I was also really angry that one of the trailers pretty much showed everything the game had to offer plot-wise. I thought the confrontation with Lan Di would happen maybe around about half into the game, not being the finale with no real conversation at all AGAIN, such a letdown.

Man, I thought I would feel a bit better about this after sleeping on it. It‘s great I am not the only one who is irritated by all this.

I couldn't help myself....I had to look. I just saw the ending.

So nothing gets explained?

No history of Ryo's father in Bailu?
No meaning to the mirrors?
No explanation of what Shenhua's poem means?

None of this gets explained in the 30 hours?


Without spoiling (because I only watched the last 15 minutes) Did anything of interest of come up?

Also, did I just see Ren throw one of the mirrors out of the window in that final segment?

He did but this was a fake one. And yes, none of it is really explained. There is a bit of backstory for the mirrors, how they were made and how Ryo‘s father came in contact with them but not much and it is still unclear what the mirrors actually do and why they are so important.

 

[danielmann861]

Could some of this stuff be expanded on in DLC? I still think its weird that there is a DLC called "Merry Cruise"....maybe the ending will get expanded on in DLC (If so then that's gonna go down well with people)

 

[quicktimefailure]

No history of Ryo's father in Bailu?

Spoiler

All that's really explained is that Iwao and Zhao were in the village training together at some point

No meaning to the mirrors?

Spoiler

They're a key to some kind of "treasure".

No explanation of what Shenhua's poem means?

Spoiler

More or less the same thing, except it's heavily hinted that Shenhua has supernatural powers.

Also, did I just see Ren throw one of the mirrors out of the window in that final segment?

Spoiler

It was a counterfeit he conveniently found at a store the night before lol

 

[Seraph87]

Could some of this stuff be expanded on in DLC? I still think its weird that there is a DLC called "Merry Cruise"....maybe the ending will get expanded on in DLC (If so then that's gonna go down well with people)

If anything gets expanded, it may be the travel to Niaowu as this is skipped in the game and you only see the arrival, and it would at least fit the name a bit. I don‘t think this will have anything to do with the ending.

 

[code l name]

I've had time to let the ending digest (For good measure I had an alternative save right before Ryo enlists Grandmaster Bei for a boat) so I also replayed the Old Castle section again. I think the operative word I have is disappointment. I will leave story discussion for another post but I just wanted to highlight why the final section doesn't really work on most levels.

- Shenhua is captured, Niao Sun has tricked us and Ryo has been forced to enlist his friends help to save her. The stakes technically couldn't be higher, you enter the building and you are presented with a sidequest to retrieve 3 items for a pawnshop?! Like what? As a reminder this is the only gameplay in this final section outside fights and QTE (Unless you want to argue opening peep hole to find Mr. Yuan counts as gameplay). It doesn't make sense for the story and arguably you could have saved the pawnshop owner from one of the members of the Red Snakes and had that serve the same purpose but fit the narrative

- Chai as we will later see with other enemies goes down with one QTE button prompt. Like why was he in the game? Outside fan service what purpose did he serve? His involvement with the Bailu gang was supposedly to observe but for who? Red Snakes? Chi You Men? It's never really explained and he like everything else is quickly relegated to an afterthought

- I actually liked the cutscene introducing Niao Sun. It looked good and I understood why Ryo would give mirror to save Shenhua. Clearly there's a power struggle between Niao Sun and Lan Di, I assume as part of that power play she directs Ryo to the penultment building to face Lan Di

- Then we encounter enemy rush. I mean even on hard these guys go down with one attack, so it never felt like it was a struggle fighting through these waves of enemies. Worse still later we see Mr. Hsu and Shiling batter enemy after enemy comically taking away any sense of accomplishment or dread you would want the player to feel

- Then we enter the boss fight which is anticlimactic to say the least. The first time I played this the fight was over in about a minute (Again I was playing on hard). Oddly replaying it I lost first time and my second fight I had to use 3 bottle of Snake Tonic. There is no memorable dialogue, no real catharsis for a player overcoming him

- But wait there's one more fight with what I can only assume based on their appearance and ethnicities is a group of backers. Why in gods name were they placed here?! Remember this is the penultimate room before facing Lan Di. From none of information I've gleamed does Red Snakes or Chi You Men recruit other ethnicities. I thought most of the backer content was introduced tastefully while still respecting the 'reality' of Shenmue. This did not and tonally was a complete misstep. I feel even fans that donated to this level wouldn't want their integration to pull players out of the story but sadly it did

- Suddenly the scene shifts from late afternoon to night time. Was there a time skip, scene omitted? Who knows...

- We encounter Lan Di's friends, henchman, members of Chi You Men? Who knows because the game certainly doesn't bother telling us. The cut scene and choreography is actually pretty nice but you literally press one QTE button to take down each member. We are also meant to believe Ren who is anything but scrappy street brawler is able to easily best what I would assume to be a high level fighter. The whole thing feels like a bad parody

- The Lan Di encounter is mercifully short. I understand Ryo has revenge on his mind but maybe ask what proof Lan Di has that Iwao killed his father (I will get into this in my story discussion but since we learn the Chi You Men take him in, I assume this is a lie he has been fed by them). I was pleased to see Ryo isn't even close to his level and proficiency of martial arts. Again the cutscene and choreography is well done (Love the kick under arm hold he pulls off). Why he just decides to stand there when he clearly could quickly dispatch Ren and Ryo without a second thought as building grumbles is anyone's guess

- Despite the entire building being completely engulfed, Ren and Ryo I presume return right back where the fire potentially would be stronger. None of their escape is integrated in gameplay or shown. A dramatic QTE escape could have at least provided an exciting finish

I will cover the final scenes and discussion with Mr. Yuan in separate story post. However I think I've outlined the issues I had with the Old Castle. Clearly a lot of elements Suzuki discussed at the inception of the project were removed or axed. What they were able to achieve on small budget was incredible as Bailu and Niaowu feel like fully fleshed out Shenmue areas. The Old Castle does not.

Many of us were wildly speculating it could be like storming the Yellow Head Building and it had the setup of being just like that. Unlike the former which really took and incorporated every element of the game; exploration, QTE and multi-stage various QTE's, group and solo battles all while increasingly the tension and stakes. I don't know if it was case of not enough budget, ran out of time or cut content. To me it's clear the last section was not fully realized and that sours me to the experience of what is otherwise a very competent Shenmue game.

 

[danielmann861]

From the looks of it. It looks like they simply ran out of time and money for the conclusion. That's a shame.

I don't know if I'm too surprised though that there is still so much we don't know. Considering Yu has been very open in saying it only takes us 40% of the way. I had a feeling they weren't gonna blow their wad explaining every last detail. But I at least would have expected more info on either the mirror (outside of the fact that it's a key to treasure) or Iwao's past. Considering the last game was practically teasing it by telling us to go to Bailu Village to find out more. I would have thought it was a given we were gonna find out more.

Oh well, I start playing in 40 minutes...so maybe I should just wait it out. I only saw that last 15 minutes. But I think I have a good clue how this game is gonna go based on that. Oh well, will wait and see for myself very soon.

Still, a shame they don't stick the ending. I really hope this game is a success in some shape or form because I'm truly worried this could be the end for Shenmue and we will never get the closure we need.

 

[jsh020]

I do feel like 3 should of had some sort of climax just in case we never got a 4 even if they had to bump some stuff up.

 

[kaliskonig91]

Yeah I can only hope if we get 4 sega actually puts in the work this time. S3 would have legit been a shenmue masterpiece if not for the final segment and lack of character development across the board. I'm not going to hold certain things against it like the character swapping and siege segment beINg cut but as already stated there are problems that can't be overlooked. It went from an 8.5 to a 7 for me due to this and I'm being generous.

Watch the first rurouni Kenshin movie. That is how I dreamed the final segment would go and in reality it should have as all the elements we're there.