110 Industries & Yu Suzuki

Mh, pretty sure almost nobody saw any real potential in the series in the first place.
Otherwise why did it take that long to even make Shenmue 3.
Sega wasnt interested, Microsoft wasnt interested, Sony wasnt interested in funding the whole thing,
Yu Suzuki had to get help just to promote a Kickstarter campaign.
Those are not signs for a popular IP (from the publisher side).

The only way to turn this around from indie / AA into a upgraded succesor / series
would have been a super awesome rated Shenmue 3 and sales numbers through the roof.
Then Deep Silver would have probably agreed to keep going /
or it would have been way easier for Ys Net to find help elsewhere.

So i dont think that Deep Silver statements did any real damage,
the game IP popularity is probably exaclty where it was between Shenmue 2 and Shenmue 3.
If we take Deep Silver out of this whole scenario,
we would have gotten the original Kickstarter game with no further delays for any other polish
and no budget boost. Before Deep Silver came on board,
Yu Suzuki commented that he wasnt even sure if all NPCs are going to be voiced.

So then even if that would have been a bigger success as a Kickstarter only game for fans,
it would still be a super small and cheap project for hardcore fans only with probably no worldwide physical release at all.
So would that attract more big publishers? I doubt it.
They would still have to figure out how to make Shenmue 4 next somehow.
Possibly even without the helping promoting hand from Sony because as we know
these original PS guys arent working for PS anymore.

It was never realistic to think that suddenly Square Enix, Capcom, Bandai Namco or whatever calls
Ys Net for a cooperation offer. If that would have been a realistic choice,
then there never would have been a Kickstarter campaign.

I partially agree.
But we must consider that Sega never really tried to make Shenmue 3 after the end of Dreamcast, that's why it took so long.
And I don't know if it's was only because they see it as not profitable, because Sega actively sabotaged all Yu Suzuki works starting around 2006, giving him an irrelevant position and so forcing him to retire.
I bet the reasons were more political than economic...

When they really started to try to make Shenmue 3, it took Suzuki only a couple of years (not 10 years) to find some partners (Shibuya and Sony, thanks to his old pal Mark Cerny), meaning that some people have found potential in the series.
And in fact they were right and Kickstarter proved again this potential, that we seen with Shenmue 1 sales.

Now I think what Deep Silver did is really unfair.
I understand that they were there just for the easy money (but we must still thanks them for the additional funds that really helped), but they are also responsable for the marketing disaster, with the result of low sales and the third game becoming a laughing stock on internet.
And instead of recognizing their many shortcomings, they put all the blame on Shenmue "being a niche game".
Doing so they even damaged the results of our succesful kickstarter.
 
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I just don’t get how we can be so certain these guys dropped Shenmue when their social media pushes this stuff. What’s the point?


Not saying they are publishing 4 at all, but I’m not that convinced the β€œinsider” can sway me from my train of thought.
 
Yeah, I wouldn't read anything into it other than Shenmue 3 is one of their products and they just want a few late sales.
 
I partially agree.
But we must consider that Sega never really tried to make Shenmue 3 after the end of Dreamcast, that's why it took so long.
And I don't know if it's was only because they see it as not profitable, because Sega actively sabotaged all Yu Suzuki works starting around 2006, giving him an irrelevant position and so forcing him to retire.
I bet the reasons were more political than economic...

When they really started to try to make Shenmue 3, it took Suzuki only a couple of years (not 10 years) to find some partners (Shibuya and Sony, thanks to his old pal Mark Cerny), meaning that some people have found potential in the series.
And in fact they were right and Kickstarter proved again this potential, that we seen with Shenmue 1 sales.

Now I think what Deep Silver did is really unfair.
I understand that they were there just for the easy money (but we must still thanks them for the additional funds that really helped), but they are also responsable for the marketing disaster, with the result of low sales and the third game becoming a laughing stock on internet.
And instead of recognizing their many shortcomings, they put all the blame on Shenmue "being a niche game".
Doing so they even damaged the results of our succesful kickstarter.

Honestly I think Shenmue is a niche game. I thought that Shenmue 3 could sell 1 million copies because of the Kickstarter hype but the numbers say otherwise. Most people have Shenmue 1&2 around 200k-400k in sales so maybe Shenmue 3 did the same or a tad better. We're gonna have to get to the conclusion of the story on a small budget and full support from the Shenmue community with a few extras.
 
Does anybody know the estimated amount it costs a company to remake one of their IPs? Sega at one point thought about Shenmue 1 remake. I'd like to know how much something like that might cost when compared to Shenmue 3 budget.
 
Honestly I think Shenmue is a niche game. I thought that Shenmue 3 could sell 1 million copies because of the Kickstarter hype but the numbers say otherwise. Most people have Shenmue 1&2 around 200k-400k in sales so maybe Shenmue 3 did the same or a tad better. We're gonna have to get to the conclusion of the story on a small budget and full support from the Shenmue community with a few extras.

More than niche, I think it's an ill-fated series :(
Unfortunately a lot of damage was done between Kickstarter and the release on Shen 3.
Without that damage, the haters and with a really good marketing and some actual effort from Deep Silver especially, 1 million would've been possible.

Maybe we really need another Kickstarter, otherwise things will never move. And next time let's hope some good publisher will support our cause.
 
More than niche, I think it's an ill-fated series :(
Unfortunately a lot of damage was done between Kickstarter and the release on Shen 3.
Without that damage, the haters and with a really good marketing and some actual effort from Deep Silver especially, 1 million would've been possible.

Maybe we really need another Kickstarter, otherwise things will never move. And next time let's hope some good publisher will support our cause.

I'm all for another Kickstarter but the majority of people are opposed. Realistically I think Kickstarter would only be feasible if Shenmue 5 was the focus. You could then sell the idea of this being the finale. I still think Yu and 110 know something we don't just might take awhile to see any results.
 
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I'm all for another Kickstarter but the majority of people are opposed. Realistically I think Kickstarter would only be feasible if Shenmue 5 was the focus. You could then sell the idea of this being the finale. I still think Yu and 110 know something we don't just might take away to see any results.

yeah, KS could work again only "to get the grand finale", otherwise many would not jump in.
Finger crossed for 110, it's our last hope at the moment.
 
I also believe that KS is normally a good idea but you all know the actual global market situation, I won't list all the issues happening because you all are probably sick of it and dont want start a derail. But Wild is a word that fits to describe the actual market so I really can't see YS playing the crowdfunding card. He will secure a solvent funder while keeping the most creative freedom possible.
I've seen few mention here about YSnet merging/being bought by big companies. What about with smaller studios? i.e. I always been fond of ex-Irem, now Granzella. Their games have the Sega mood imo... Disaster Report and RTypes series, Hammer Hero... City Shroudded in Shadows sold very well in Japan (no western release afaik).
I know it sounds silly but we're theorizing aren't we? YSnet + Granzella = Dinozord Mammoth
 
Kickstarter for another part (that is not the finale) would probably only get to 1/3 of the amount of money
if we keep in mind that theres no big E3 stage anymore with millions of people live watching one main stage
and no guarantee that Sony would help the campaign again.
Shenmue is not a Sony IP and the Sony 2015 people arent there anymore,
so the new Sony could just say no thanks.

I think if Ys Net would actually believe in another KS success (enough money to actually make a full next part with it),
they would have already started it.
If Deep Silver would have been more than satisfied with the sales numbers,
they would have already started the Shenmue 4 development two years ago and we would have heard something by now.
We can forget the big names like Square, Ubisoft, Capcom and so on.
Theres a reason why Ys Net chose Deep Silver. Probably because there wasnt that much range in terms of publisher offers
or their own terms for a cooperation were pretty bad.

Which then leads to a new publisher in the same budget range / size as Deep Silver,
or below that. It is easy to downgrade from the AA 15-30 mil USD range
down to the budget of even smaller publishers.
But a upgrade will be much harder because there arent that many AA publishers
left that are funding these type of middle ground games and the jump to the AAA treatment is way too big.
How many decent AA open world game publishers do you guys know?

It would be much easier if Shenmue 4 would be a 7-12 hour long graphic novel game
or 1/2 the size of the Shenmue 1 map and no voice acting.
But open world style with new locations, NPCs, shops, story, decent graphics and full voice acting etc,
thats not a good combination with a budget that maybe cant even be considered to be on AA level.

If we throw away the full voice acting and kind of decent graphics
we could get something on the same level as Deadly Premonition.
But its going to be very very very hard to get a budget to surpass
Shenmue 3's graphics, voice acting, world design and so on
and i have no idea which publisher would gave them these ressources to upgrade everything.

We are talking about these typical middle ground games like Shenmue 3, Kingdom Come, Biomutant,
Elex, Darksiders 3, Dynasty Warriors, Deadly Premonition ...
and these type of games will always come with some quality restrictions
because they are in this weird space where the game is huge but the budget isnt.

Short, good graphics, not open world, no voice acting
and more gameplay than story, like the new game Stray - not a big problem
Long, a lot of story, open world but only cutscene voice acting
and below average graphics like Deadly Premonition - its possible
Long, a lot of story, open world, fully voice acted, good graphics
but the budget isnt bigger than the budget of the other two examples? - trouble is going to be inevitable

There is no way around that, except if some first party publisher on the 60-90 mil USD budget level
is going to fund the whole thing. The size and scale of Shenmue will always be a main problem
because that stuff is not cheap.
 
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