A Year Of Reflection

I also still have trouble with people whose opinion and perception is that the story and the writing was not that great because of budget. Budget has absolutely nothing to do with this. Bad writing is bad writing. Period. An old man by the fire can tell a good story, he doesn’t need money to do so.
An old man by a fire doesn't have to create character models and script and record everything. That's a ridiculous claim, of course budget plays a role in story-telling when it comes to games, movies etc.
 
I really enjoyed Shenmue 3, but I've only played it once. I spent around 50 - 60 hours on my first playthrough and played it on the hardest difficulty. I had a great time. However, the game does have a lot of issues, especially in Niaowu

Loved the Bailu section and really enjoyed Yanlang as the main bad guy. It had a very old school kung fu film feel to it.

In Niaowu, i felt like you tell they were running out of money and the story started to repeat it self. I am curious to see what i'll think of Niaowu with all the extra dlc installed. The phone conversations were epic.

I'll be starting a fresh playthrough in February, so I'll let you know my 2nd playthrough thoughts when I complete it. But yeah, i really enjoyed Shenmue 3

I reckon Shenmue 3 and 4 together will be amazing.
 
An old man by a fire doesn't have to create character models and script and record everything. That's a ridiculous claim, of course budget plays a role in story-telling when it comes to games, movies etc.
That old man by the fire could have advised them not to waste money and effort into bringing back a character from a previous chapter that had no business, place or overall contribution to the story. Oh and BTW have the protagonist not recognize him at all during all the encounters.
Also could have advised not to focus 95% of the game discovering and encoutering a new one-dimensional antagonist gang and only have the last 5% to the chi you men (which fans waited 20 years for). And also don't forget to make the final climax moments by being super original and kidnapping the female main character for the third f***ng time!!
 
I really enjoyed Shenmue 3, but I've only played it once. I spent around 50 - 60 hours on my first playthrough and played it on the hardest difficulty. I had a great time. However, the game does have a lot of issues, especially in Niaowu

Loved the Bailu section and really enjoyed Yanlang as the main bad guy. It had a very old school kung fu film feel to it.

In Niaowu, i felt like you tell they were running out of money and the story started to repeat it self. I am curious to see what i'll think of Niaowu with all the extra dlc installed. The phone conversations were epic.

I'll be starting a fresh playthrough in February, so I'll let you know my 2nd playthrough thoughts when I complete it. But yeah, i really enjoyed Shenmue 3

I reckon Shenmue 3 and 4 together will be amazing.
Almost the same as you. I finished it 45 hours approx. In medium (is that how you say it in English?) difficulty.

For me, if Shenmue 3 was only in Bailu, it would be a solid 8/10.

But in Niaowu, all the issues that didn't bothered (or simply weren't there) me in Bailu appeared to me. So it drop my general grade to 6.5-7/10.

But I'll have a better idea of the game when I'll get my second run. I am currently on Shenmue 2, so maybe I'll start again Shenmue 3 in January or something.
 
That old man by the fire could have advised them not to waste money and effort into bringing back a character from a previous chapter that had no business, place or overall contribution to the story. Oh and BTW have the protagonist not recognize him at all during all the encounters.
Also could have advised not to focus 95% of the game discovering and encoutering a new one-dimensional antagonist gang and only have the last 5% to the chi you men (which fans waited 20 years for). And also don't forget to make the final climax moments by being super original and kidnapping the female main character for the third f***ng time!!
Which character are you talking about? Chai?

Where I agree with you is that they didn't plan properly their game tbh.

Like I said before, the game was clearly unfinished. It lacks polish at many levels, and had to cut a full location out of the game. And this location (Baisha) was supposed to be the most important place in Shenmue 3 (from Yu Suzuki interview back in 2015).

Like I said on my previous post (or on another thread, don't remember), they should have stuck with Bailu only. If they kept the whole game there and polish it nicely and work more on the story that they could tell (Zunming and Iwao's past, the mirror's etc...), the game would have probably came better on probably every aspect.

It would have been a shorter less ambitious game, probably, but also a great game I'm sure.

But Yu Suzuki, as always, was really ambitious, and I think this time it was too much and they realized it too late to correct it, and the overall game suffered from it, and the story as well.

But I know that both Yu Suzuki and Cédric Biscay acknowledge the various flaws of the game, so I'm pretty sure all of this will be handled way better in Shenmue 4.
 
I usually do one annual playthrough of Shenmue 1 & 2, which I didn't get around to this year.

I gave my Steam key to a friend last week and it really hit home the fact that S3 has been out for a year. I received my Soundtrack CD, Chai (why the fuck was he even in S3?) capsule toy and art book but a few days ago. A year later. Well, better late than never, I guess.

No official word on S4 yet but with the Anime coming, the series could be in a worse place.

I've come to terms with S3 as it is. I've accepted the fact that a lot of Shenmue fans consider it a good game.

I've also decided to just skip S3 on any of my future Shenmue playthroughs. I'll probably just play 1 and 2, then hopefully go straight to 4 some day. Also didn't get the new limited edition by Limited Run Games. I'm done with S3, it's in my archive now.

I just don't want to look into Shenmue's past anymore and if I look at its past I want to look at its bright sides, like S1 and S2, but I want to keep the negativity away from myself and replaying S3 would only create negative feelings towards the franchise for me.

I want to focus on the future. Let's help Yu get that story finished. Frankly, I don't give a damn if the story is finished in the form of an Anime or a game. As long as it's not a live action movie or a novel, I'm good.

S3 is in the past now. Let's focus on what's ahead and see what we can do to get the Saga finished one day.
 
Like I said before, the game was clearly unfinished. It lacks polish at many levels, and had to cut a full location out of the game. And this location (Baisha) was supposed to be the most important place in Shenmue 3 (from Yu Suzuki interview back in 2015).
But Yu Suzuki, as always, was really ambitious
Baisha looks so unique and interesting, really sad that they had to cut from the game. 😢

Yu Suzuki is really ambitious and probably a perfecionist when comes to games. I think he really wanted to put Baisha in the game but he had to cut. We don't know what happened in the development of Shenmue III, the problems that Yu Suzuki and the team had to face with limit budget.

The game was delayed 2 or 3 times i think.

Ryo VS Longqi Ge fight i think was supposed to be in the same place that Shenmue III ended, the last scene.

I remember one interview with Yu Suzuki before Shenmue III release, one question was this "Scale 1 to 10 how much do you love Shenmue III?" Yu Suzuki said... " hm... probably 7.5 ... 5... 5, 6 maybe. The interviewer said... "You're going down" the interview is a really funny interview so i don't know if he was joking or being honest, probably being honest.

In my opinion Yu Suzuki had to cut some things that he really didn't want to cut from the game like Baisha, maybe he had more story for characters like Shiling and he had to cut, i imagined that Yu Suzuki and the team had a lot of problems in the development of Shenmue III.

For me Bailu Village is awesome, one of my favorite places in the Shenmue World, i like the location, i like the characters in Bailu Village, i like the fact that we have to go back to Shenhua's house, i love the conversations with Shenhua, the conversations with Shenhua was one of my favorite parts of the game, i like the training with master Sun and much more.

In Bailu Village we had some interesting things about the story, the flashbacks about the mirrors was really interesting in my opinion, we learned some things about what Iwao did in Bailu Village.

i don't hate Niaowu, i think is a great location, Niaowu is really beautiful, the thing that i disliked about Niaowu was that the side characters like Shiling and Qiu Hsu didn't had much story,

Niaowu could have been better in some parts but i don't hate Niaowu, but i really think if Baisha was in the game the final part could have been much better.

I don't hate the ending of the game. I like the parts with Niao Sun, i think she will appear a lot in Shenmue IV.

Ryo showed that he improved a little and even Lan Di said that, this was the first real fight against Lan Di and Ryo showed that he is getting better, this is not the time for Ryo to win against Lan Di, Ryo will mature more in my opinion as a martial artist and as a character, i think he will forget about revenge but he will win a fight against Lan Di, but right now is not the moment.

Shenmue III for me is about Ryo bonding with Shenhua and the training phase of Ryo's Journey, a time where Ryo have to train everyday, without neglect. Ryo is more closer with Shenhua right now, Shenmue III it is a calm and peaceful time in Ryo's journey specially in Bailu Village, and i love this peaceful time in Ryo's journey, and Bailu village gives me Shenmue I vibe and feelings and i love that. Bailu Village was beautiful for me, i look at Shenmue III this way so this is one of the reasons why i like Shenmue III, and i think Shenmue IV will be like Shenmue II when it comes to action, revelations and much more.

I think Shenmue III and IV together will be amazing like ShenSun said, what do i mean by that? i mean that i will apreciate even more Shenmue III when the story comes to its conclusion, i will apreciate even more this peaceful time in Ryo's journey, but i think Shenmue will end in Shenmue V.

Shenmue III have flaws and qualities in my opinion, i love the new things like colecting herbs, we can change Ryo's clothes if we want, the chop wood is fun, the food system and much more, but i think the food system needs improvements. I played 156 hours, i really took my time with the game and i had a fun time, and i plan to play the game again soon, lets get Shenmue IV.😊
 
Last edited:
I usually do one annual playthrough of Shenmue 1 & 2, which I didn't get around to this year.

I gave my Steam key to a friend last week and it really hit home the fact that S3 has been out for a year. I received my Soundtrack CD, Chai (why the fuck was he even in S3?) capsule toy and art book but a few days ago. A year later. Well, better late than never, I guess.

No official word on S4 yet but with the Anime coming, the series could be in a worse place.

I've come to terms with S3 as it is. I've accepted the fact that a lot of Shenmue fans consider it a good game.

I've also decided to just skip S3 on any of my future Shenmue playthroughs. I'll probably just play 1 and 2, then hopefully go straight to 4 some day. Also didn't get the new limited edition by Limited Run Games. I'm done with S3, it's in my archive now.

I just don't want to look into Shenmue's past anymore and if I look at its past I want to look at its bright sides, like S1 and S2, but I want to keep the negativity away from myself and replaying S3 would only create negative feelings towards the franchise for me.

I want to focus on the future. Let's help Yu get that story finished. Frankly, I don't give a damn if the story is finished in the form of an Anime or a game. As long as it's not a live action movie or a novel, I'm good.

S3 is in the past now. Let's focus on what's ahead and see what we can do to get the Saga finished one day.
I'm always sad to see people disliking Shenmue 3 so much, but it's a fair take you have and a good mindset. I do hope that Shenmue 4 will be great and that it will bring back pleasure about Shenmue to fans like you, who were disappointed in Shenmue 3.
 
Baisha looks so unique and interesting, really sad that they had to cut from the game. 😢

Yu Suzuki is really ambitious and probably a perfecionist when comes to games. I think he really wanted to put Baisha in the game but he had to cut. We don't know what happened in the development of Shenmue III, the problems that Yu Suzuki and the team had to face with limit budget.

The game was delayed 2 or 3 times i think.

Ryo VS Longqi Ge fight i think was supposed to be in the same place that Shenmue III ended, the last scene.

I remember one interview with Yu Suzuki before Shenmue III release, one question was this "Scale 1 to 10 how much do you love Shenmue III?" Yu Suzuki said... " hm... probably 7.5 ... 5... 5, 6 maybe. The interviewer said... "You're going down" the interview is a really funny interview so i don't know if he was joking or being honest, probably being honest.

In my opinion Yu Suzuki had to cut some things that he really didn't want to cut from the game like Baisha, maybe he had more story for characters like Shiling and he had to cut, i imagined that Yu Suzuki and the team had a lot of problems in the development of Shenmue III.

For me Bailu Village is awesome, one of my favorite places in the Shenmue World, i like the location, i like the characters in Bailu Village, i like the fact that we have to go back to Shenhua's house, i love the conversations with Shenhua, the conversations with Shenhua was one of my favorite parts of the game, i like the training with master Su and much more.

In Bailu Village we had some interesting things about the story, the flashbacks about the mirrors was really interesting in my opinion, we learned some things about what Iwao did in Bailu Village.

i don't hate Niaowu, i think is a great location, Niaowu is really beautiful, the thing that i disliked about Niaowu was that the side characters like Shiling and Qiu Hsu didn't had much story,

Niaowu could have been better in some parts but i don't hate Niaowu, but i really think if Baisha was in the game the final part could have been much better.

I don't hate the ending of the game. I like the parts with Niao Sun, i think she will appear a lot in Shenmue IV.

Ryo showed that he improved a little and even Lan Di said that, this was the first real fight against Lan Di and Ryo showed that he is getting better, this is not the time for Ryo to win against Lan Di, Ryo will mature more in my opinion as a martial artist and as a character, i think he will forget about revenge but he will win a fight against Lan Di, but right now is not the moment.

Shenmue III for me is about Ryo bonding with Shenhua and the training phase of Ryo's Journey, a time where Ryo have to train everyday, without neglect. Ryo is more closer with Shenhua right now, Shenmue III it is a calm and peaceful time in Ryo's journey specially in Bailu Village, and i love this peaceful time in Ryo's journey, and Bailu village gives me Shenmue I vibe and feelings and i love that. Bailu Village was beautiful for me, i look at Shenmue III this way so this is one of the reasons why i like Shenmue III, and i think Shenmue IV will be like Shenmue II when it comes to action, revelations and much more.

I think Shenmue III and IV together will be amazing like ShenSun said, what do i mean by that? i mean that i will apreciate even more Shenmue III when the story comes to its concluson, i will apreciate even more this peaceful time in Ryo's journey, but i think Shenmue will end in Shenmue V.

Shenmue III have flaws and qualities in my opinion, i love the new things like colecting herbs, we can change Ryo's clothes if we want, the chop wood is fun, the food system and much more, but i think the food system needs improvements. I played 156 hours, i really took my time with the game and i had a fun time, and i plan to play the game again soon, lets get Shenmue IV.😊
I strongly agree with you. The development team and Yu Suzuki certainly faced problems during dev time. It's clear by the fact that the game would have been better if they could have included Baisha, and that everything made sense. Sadly, we don't really know what happened, what was the reason that blocked the dev', and how it could have been avoided.

For me I agree with you. I really loved Baisha. Like I said on another thread, if I had to judge Shenmue 3 on Baisha only, it would be a strong 8/10 for me. It's really Niaowu that led to some disappointement that got my average at 6.5/10 so far.

I don't really hate Niaowu. I see the idea that was behind this location, but I also see that they couldn't end it properly. You can see that with the side characters being strongly underdeveloped, or the ending that came in a hurry in Niaowu, or the fact that the plot structure was the same as the one in Bailu.

Now, it's true that with Shenmue, it's always hard to judge a game as a single piece, since they are all one small part of one story. So, you know, maybe with the future games, I'd enjoy Shenmue 3 better. It's clear that if Shenmue's Story follows the Monomyth (Joseph's Campbell's Hero's Journey), we would be at the initiation stage at a broader stage, and at the end of the game, we would be at the abyss (Death, revival will probably be in IV, or maybe we are at the death and revival already, we'll see). It is just a stage in Ryo's Journey.

And yes, we could clearly see Ryo's improvement already. Even if he lost to Lan Di, he got way better already. He could take his hits multiple times, compared to the last time Ryo's fought him.

But yes, for me, Shenmue 3 has some really strong points, some great qualities and great ideas. And for me, it's a good work that'll help them realize the full potential Shenmue 4 has.
 
I have spent countless hours in the game, finished it 6 times straight to get platinum trophy and I did enjoy it for what it offered especially Bailu/old master training, but felt equally disappointed for the way it recycles the "boss beat you twice"- "grind money for secret move" forced plot. The way characters appear, especially in Niaowu break the immersion due to bad writing ( Ren sudden introduction at noodle shop, Niao Sun kidnapping plan and disguise, Ryo poor dialogue against Lan Di).
Combat system were not very responsive but just ok

So yeah it was an OK game for me which I've enjoyed, but definitely needed to offer more quality
 
In the past year I've thought about Shenmue 3 more than any other game. I didn't like it. I regularly ask myself if maybe I played it wrong or didn't approach with the right attitude, but then I remember all the things I absolutely loathed about the game. The stamina system, the absurd amount of time wasted running around to utilize the exchange system... these things break the game for me. I recognize at the core there's a decent game here that I could probably enjoy, but there's too many bad systems on top of it all that detracts from the core of it.

Since it's been brought up, Chai shouldn't be in this game at all. His appearances should have been reserved for the capsule toy and the "joke" bedroom at the end. Those would have been nice and subtle references to the past. Ren also felt out of place and insignificant. Seeing Ren walk around the streets and him and Ryo pass each other like they don't know each other is damaging to all the character and relationship building in Shenmue 2.

It seems like a lot of stuff was cut from the game, but it sounds like the important stuff was cut and the unimportant stuff was left in.

I concur that budget no longer can be used as an excuse for anything in this game. An honest analysis will reveal that budget was wasted on far too many unimportant things where it should have been used on much more important things. The real reason for the end quality of the game is bad decision making and a lack of focus on what matters most. I find it hard to comprehend that after 15 years there wasn't an absolutely clear and direct mission and understanding of what needed to be done, and that is somewhat unforgivable, especially with the kickstarter fan funded scenario which there will only be one of.

I hope there's a Shenmue 4. I absolutely want the series to continue, but I am concerned about where the series goes from here and I think there's a lot of wrongs that need to be righted if it does continue. I think that by cutting content from S3, that S4 will have to do a lot of correcting. It sounds like S4 will have to be a Shenmue 3 Part 2, rather than simply being Shenmue 4.
 
For me it complicated. I've been thinking a lot and reading what other people were saying. And at this point It mostly turned into questions for me, like why was this or that done the way it was done and could've been done better? Was this really what Yu Suzuki envisioned? This is something I wonder. I don't know if we get the chance to ask him or team directly, and many things will probably remain "behind the scene".
Like budget questions, were mistakes made? Could've it been spend/allocated better? What were the problems?

For the story, for the most part it felt more like short segment of the story that has been stretched to make it feel long.
I remember Yu Suzuki saying that he didn't wanted to sacrifice story and end the series with Shenmue III which I absolutely agreed with at the time, but not so sure now. Did everything went as planned? Was Niaowu part really necessary? Or maybe there were different plans? Something went wrong? again many questions..

And it is something that we can only guess and speculate about at this point, without official answer.
Like, for example, I understand if they had to reuse a lot of music to save on budget, but now I wonder if they really had to?

I hope I've been clear on this, I don't know if it may sound inappropriate or disrespectful, but there are many questions i kind of wish has been answered.

I still want Shenmue 4 but I'm also worried about direction it might be going into.
 
I’m a fan mostly because I wanted to see where the story went, and how Ryo would continue to grow, and S3 finally made me come to terms with the fact that Yu didn’t have the whole story planned for all these years, but just kind of made it on the spot, if you know what I mean.

The way S2 ends, the way S3 begins (no magical sword anymore, and the focus on Shenhua’s father who was supposed to disappear) and how nothing relevant happens until the last 30 minutes of the game put me to peace with the fact that there never was a big story set in stone for all these years waiting to be discovered.

And thus, for me now the Shenmue question is closed, meaning that I don’t crave for more anymore.

I loved the ride though, and will still support any media that comes out, just not with the same passion and desire of all those years.
 
I’m a fan mostly because I wanted to see where the story went, and how Ryo would continue to grow, and S3 finally made me come to terms with the fact that Yu didn’t have the whole story planned for all these years, but just kind of made it on the spot, if you know what I mean.

The way S2 ends, the way S3 begins (no magical sword anymore, and the focus on Shenhua’s father who was supposed to disappear) and how nothing relevant happens until the last 30 minutes of the game put me to peace with the fact that there never was a big story set in stone for all these years waiting to be discovered.

And thus, for me now the Shenmue question is closed, meaning that I don’t crave for more anymore.

I loved the ride though, and will still support any media that comes out, just not with the same passion and desire of all those years.
I partly disagree with it, S3 story is not inherently bad, it just had a terrible writing ( predictable events, repeating plot, lack of characters development, wrong use of characters).

The fact everything happens in the last 30 mins is probably due to Bailu / Niaowu spending the whole budget on extras, forcing Baisha (perspective system/big event) being cut out.
I don't think the problem is Yu planning the story on the spot, to the contrary he has too much of that, just the way budget has been managed and allocated is probably the culprit here.
 
How anyone did not expect to be a search for Shenhua's father as a story beat in Shenmue 3... weren't paying attention to an obvious plot.
I think, in general, a lot of people expected the story to 'take off' more, and lead into a more frantic, and feverish pace from where Shenmue II ended. To me, that expectation is like thinking the story was going to take off into the stratosphere, and Ryo would have to save Shenhua's father from the alien overlords who control the Chiyoumen, or some such thing.

S3 finally made me come to terms with the fact that Yu didn’t have the whole story planned for all these years, but just kind of made it on the spot, if you know what I mean.
This sounds like a bit of an overcorrection to me, and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. The scenario scripts that underpin the games' structures have always been written out, but they've been reworked in spots to fit the format of a video game (--or two --or five-ish). The animation is going to be using the same scenario scripts as the games, but none of those three things are going to come away looking identical. Be prepared for a lot of creative liberties with the animated series as well.
 
Yu hmself said the third game draws mroe inward like Yokosuka years ago. People were happily shoving their head in the sand pretending there must be constant yellow head building, when in fact the same game ended with a preview of Bailu Village... Also the interview @spud1897 just did with Ryan Payton says the general outlines are finished and have been since the mid 90s, although the actual games themselves need extra elaboration.
 
Yeah, Ryan Payton said from what he saw of Yu's outlines that the core scenarios, main characters, and dialogue have already been laid out to some extent. And we've seen these Akira RPG script books sitting on Yu's desk during Shenmue 3's behind-the-scenes videos/photos so we know he's been referring to them during development.

Of course, its been 20 years since these outlines were penned, so some alterations are bound to be made. Shenmue 3 was originally going to be a far more stripped-down game where 90% of the time you're talking to Shenhua, but thanks to the extra funding we ended up ditching that idea and going full-on FREE which I felt made for a far more authentic Shenmue sequel.
 
How anyone did not expect to be a search for Shenhua's father as a story beat in Shenmue 3... weren't paying attention to an obvious plot.
How? Well, in the letter at the end of S2 he clearly states that he was going away for good since Shenhua was now with the one, forgive me if I never expected that the entire freaking game would be about looking for him.
 
Not necessarily what the letter meant; natural instinct was they'd be looking for him and the connection with Chi You. Doesn't make sense for Shenhua to just give up and accept the loss of her father. Well, looks like my destiny says I'm with Ryo now, let's be mindless and forget about the man who raised me in an instant!
 
Back
Top