Better than Shenmue 1&2: Your thoughts?

S

stillsense

Joined
Oct 31, 2019
I've had a long and hard thought after my first playthrough about where Shenmue 3 stands in the series, I then played it again to make up my mind and dare I say I think it takes the crown. I genuinely think this game is better than 1&2 despite the disturbingly obvious lack of story development. Gameplay wise 3 triumphs the ambitious originals that is not even a question, the game is more modern, better looking and there is more side activity to do (working is actually fun now) and there is now challenging combat. I don't even mind the stamina system too much. Because the gameplay is better and there is more replayability I consider Shenmue 1&2 inferior to Shenmue 3.

I take my hats off and congratulate Suzuki for improving Shenmue and making a decent game. It is not as bad as critics or fans would say, my ONLY complaints with 3 is the awful QTE segments and the story. Even though Suzuki has somewhat disappointed the fanbase with this game he defintely made improvements to what was left from 2001's Shenmue 2. Does anybody else consider this, The best Shenmue game?
 
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stillsense said:
I've had a long and hard thought after my first playthrough about where Shenmue 3 stands in the series, I had spent more time in subsequent playthroughs to make up my mind and dare I say I think it takes the crown. I genuinely think this game is better than 1&2 despite the disturbingly obvious lack of story development. Gameplay wise 3 triumphs the ambitious originals that is not even a question, the game is more modern, better looking and there is more side activity to do (working is actually fun now) and there is now challenging combat. I don't even mind the stamina system too much. Because the gameplay is better and there is more replayability I consider Shenmue 1&2 inferior to Shenmue 3.

I take my hats off and congratulate Suzuki for improving Shenmue and making a decent game. It is not as bad as critics or fans would say, my ONLY complaints with 3 is the awful QTE segments and the story. Even though Suzuki has somewhat disappointed the fanbase with this game he defintely made improvements to what was left from 2001's Shenmue 2. Does anybody else consider this, The best Shenmue game?
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I envy you.
 
I daresay Shenmue III is the best Kickstarter game ever made, easily.

The combat is 100× better in 1&2, that's why I can't give the prize to SIII. I do like that the combat is rebooted in III , and it's the groundwork to make Shenmue IV combat awesome. We are not quite there yet, though. Everything else, the fact that Ryo can change his clothes, the better graphics, the music, the DLC option, all better in III.
 
stillsense said:
I've had a long and hard thought after my first playthrough about where Shenmue 3 stands in the series, I had spent more time in subsequent playthroughs to make up my mind and dare I say I think it takes the crown. I genuinely think this game is better than 1&2 despite the disturbingly obvious lack of story development. Gameplay wise 3 triumphs the ambitious originals that is not even a question, the game is more modern, better looking and there is more side activity to do (working is actually fun now) and there is now challenging combat. I don't even mind the stamina system too much. Because the gameplay is better and there is more replayability I consider Shenmue 1&2 inferior to Shenmue 3.

I take my hats off and congratulate Suzuki for improving Shenmue and making a decent game. It is not as bad as critics or fans would say, my ONLY complaints with 3 is the awful QTE segments and the story. Even though Suzuki has somewhat disappointed the fanbase with this game he defintely made improvements to what was left from 2001's Shenmue 2. Does anybody else consider this, The best Shenmue game?
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I think it does some things better than the originals and some worse. But sod the negative shit, here's what I think it does well/better.

Graphics (yes a given) but they retained a Dreamcast look. I refer to the graphics as a Dreamcast on steroids. It's very colourful and beautiful looking. The environments are superb.

Mini-games. Barring the lack of Sega games I felt these felt more rounded. Wood chopping is addictive as hell and even on NG+ with a bunch of money I was happy to spend literally hours on it. The arcade games are great fun too. Whack a mole is brilliant.

Connectivity of the world. The mini-games had an impact if you wanted to engage with the training aspect. E.g you had to get certain items to get a certain move. It needs refinement but I liked the novel idea of what they were trying to do.

I do think some portions of the fanbase act like Shenmue III is an insult to the series. It's not. You've mentioned the flaws and I agree with them.

However it's a very solid game. With refinement of that formula, add in the story and I think you get a decently rounded game.

However it wont beat Shenmue II for me. I hold Shenmue II in a very very high regard. That game, overall, is the best one for me. But Shenmue III is a good solid sequel, mixed in parts but good overall for me.
 
I don't think 3's the best, but I stand by what I've (mostly) said all along: I suspect my balanced view on the game will come only in relation to the completion of the series (whether it be now, 4, or 5). The pacing may be more forgivable/contextualized once we see the rest.

As it stands, ranking them in increasing order of my desire to play them (vs. the objective side of what was given): 1, 3, 2.

I'm nostalgic about 1 (esp. the story/atmosphere) and I feel it's technically more polished (damned QTEs in 3), but I find the modern tweeks of 3 (time skipping, options for a job, silly additions like Chobu Chan) make me want to go back to it more. Nonetheless, 2 remains my favorite: plot, feel, and improvements on gel best out of them all.

The plot issues in the final act (I forgive the cosmetic) prevent me from thinking 3 the best, but it's a game both functional and enjoyable. The DLC turned me around on it: I think @spud1897 said it somewhere, but with the DLC added, Niaowu may be the most content-filled location in the series thus far (even if some of it's repetitive content).
 
Godokunodan said:
I daresay Shenmue III is the best Kickstarter game ever made, easily.
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Don't go too far m8

Sunless Sea
Faster Than Light
Rimworld
Superhot
Elite Dangerous
Distance
Fortuna: Deliver Us The Moon
are all better games than Shenmue 3 for me and would fit Suzuki's résumé with no shame.

And I've yet to play Shadowrun, Undertale, Hollow Knight, Pillars of Eternity, Hyper Light Drifter, Banner Saga, Iron Harvest, Firmament...
 
I don't agree, but it's good to see that it's not all doom and gloom for everyone around here. I’ve gone through my reasons why I don’t think it’s better than the first two games many times so I don’t want to try to argue anything you’ve said.
 
stillsense said:
Does anybody else consider this, The best Shenmue game?
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I don't, personally, but I agree that it's very very good (almost definitely the best new game I've played in the last decade or so), and that the contempt for it is unwarranted. Overall, I enjoy Shenmue III more than the first game, but Shenmue II is still too special to me.

However, Battle Rally is pretty much the bar by which I will gauge all DLC from now on.
 
stillsense said:
I've had a long and hard thought after my first playthrough about where Shenmue 3 stands in the series, I had spent more time in subsequent playthroughs to make up my mind and dare I say I think it takes the crown. I genuinely think this game is better than 1&2 despite the disturbingly obvious lack of story development. Gameplay wise 3 triumphs the ambitious originals that is not even a question, the game is more modern, better looking and there is more side activity to do (working is actually fun now) and there is now challenging combat. I don't even mind the stamina system too much. Because the gameplay is better and there is more replayability I consider Shenmue 1&2 inferior to Shenmue 3.

I take my hats off and congratulate Suzuki for improving Shenmue and making a decent game. It is not as bad as critics or fans would say, my ONLY complaints with 3 is the awful QTE segments and the story. Even though Suzuki has somewhat disappointed the fanbase with this game he defintely made improvements to what was left from 2001's Shenmue 2. Does anybody else consider this, The best Shenmue game?
Click to expand...

I disagree with your opinion, but I certainly do respect it. In fact, I am envious of those of you who enjoyed something I really wanted to. The only things I think Shenmue III did better than its predecessors is the graphics, environments, and the training system.

When it comes to mini-games, the only ones I enjoyed were wood chopping and the Battle Rally DLC. It's never been about the number of mini-games for me but how immersive the ones you have are. The free-flowing combat system of the first two games compelled me to explore its depth. I cannot say the same for Shenmue III.

One of my biggest issues with III was that I did not find it compelling on any level. I really wanted to love it, but sadly I just couldn't. When I have to force myself to finish something that is usually a bad sign. However as I said before, I respect those who did enjoy the game and do not have any animosity towards you. Diversity of opinions and all that.
 
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Shenmue 1 is light years above 3 imho and we're not even talking about S2. The only thing I can say in favor of S3 over 1 is fishing and wood chopping but then again S1 has darts and Sega games so that easily beats 3 in that department.

For the best kickstarted game, that would also be a no for me. There are at least Lost Ember, Bloodstained and Broken Sword 5 which all are better games than S3 in my opinion. Those are the ones I can think of right now, more would probably come to mind if I gave it more thought though.

To each their own, I guess.
 
I personally wouldn't say Shenmue 3 is quite on par with Shenmue and Shenmue 2 but there are reasons why and they've been discussed to death. End of the day, Yu and his team have to be admired for what they did with budget and circumstances. 3 is still a fine addition to the franchise; above all it nails that Shenmue charm which is most important.
 
I think it's hard to compare because we are talking about games with almost 20 years of distance, so they are different times, there are different technologies, genres, etc.

If SIII would been realesed in 2003 or 2004 it would be easy to make the comparisson. It's like saying, which Gran Turismo is better? I would say Gran Turismo 2 instead of any modern Gran Turismo, but it's not fair, even for a game that is basically the same, it's not the same what you expected with GT 2 than you did with GT Motorsports. But I still like more GT2. Whats the truth behind that statement? And how much of nostalgic factor is changing my mind too?

Taking notice of that, if you put me a gun in my head and make me pick one, I'd say SII, SI, SIII. But still no fair to me, even it's not fair with SI. When before SIII was release here discussed about which Shenmue was better (with your classic walls of text :LOL: ) I said two sentences that resume everything: "SII it's a better game, but SI it's a better Shenmue". And everybody agreed. What do we do with that? Because yes, SII it's a better game because kinda improoves some little stuff of SI, but if you ask me for "real Shenmue experience" I would say SI (and the ending of SII). That's makes it better as a Shenmue, but as a game too? What's the line between them?

Maybe is it normal for new players to like more SIII because SI and SII aren't part of the nostalgy? And because SIII it's more modern and friendly than SI and SII (not my case btw)? And that's why old players that played SI and SII in 1999 and 2001 will always prefer those games? Idk.

The graphics stuff divided the community a lot too. I think if you make a SIII with the engine of SI and SII, would be praised by all the Shenmue's players (I'd love to see that)
 
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Sput said:
Maybe is it normal for new players to like more SIII because SI and SII aren't part of the nostalgy? And because SIII it's more modern and friendly than SI and SII (not my case btw)?
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One more thing. The fact that SIII it's friendlier, does it make it better? I would say yes, but Shenmue it's about not been "friendly" too, and maybe you want to be alone without knowing what to do, (something that happened in SIII but it's not like SI to me for an example), so maybe we can say "no, it isnt better if it's friendlier"?

I mean, this is too subjective. I'd say SII it's better than any other game I've played (and will play) only for the last 2 hours with Shenhua, but here I red some people that absolutelly hated that part. I mean, forget Guilin, I'd say it's the best of all times only for the MUSIC of Guilin. Should I've upset because I didn't get that feeling in SIII? Maybe some did it, what should I think then? Idk, maybe I have more "feelings" in SIII than any other Shenmue too. This is too subjetive, that's why I understand if some people thinks it's better tho I don't think the same (again, if you put a gun in my head). There isn't a correct answer.
 
I don't think it's the best but I think it's fair to think so. I don't believe in objectivity when it comes to art. If you accept that everyone experiences video games in different ways, and everyone enjoys different things -- from core game mechanics down to the smallest detail -- then what purpose does objectivity serve? The answer is almost always "to validate my own opinions".

Shenmue will always be my favourite. I recognise there are aspects of II and III that are improved over the first game, but I simply love the feel, atmosphere, and sense of mystery in the original. Each game has its strengths and weaknesses. How those balance out from person to person is completely subjective.
 
Well, there is obviously multiple ways and angles to evaluate a game. The simplest is to quantify your satisfaction over the experience and makes some approximate comparison. But it requires some mental gymnastic as there are different lengths and intensities of satisfaction (and dissatisfaction). Giving some value to such asymmetric types of (dis)satisfaction is subjective.

Another method is to preselect objective areas before evaluate the game or rather the potential of the game to please with predefined material and artistic decisions. But while it makes your evaluation basically objective, the preselection is still a matter of taste and art conception - your vision is said to be academic. However, you can get more solid consensus since the comparison tends to be more formal. That's likely the reason we generally assume S2 is a better game than S1, or in more accurate words, S2 has more better parts than S1.

We're all different human beings but this difference is not extreme. A bad writing can be perceived as such from most of the cultures on the planet, making the value debate not totally illegitimate nonetheless. Don't hide us too much behind the argument of subjectivity. Words are accurate enough to relativize our thoughts and assumptions, and valuating is a good exercise to deduce our own interests towards Shenmue.

There is also the obvious deal with contextuality. You either rate a game for what it is, according the taste, the mood and the convictions you have today, or you rate the performance of the game about doing its original job. From there, you're less evaluating the experience than the developer's merit of having caught the interest of its contemporaries. In that way, Shenmue 1 is probably a better game than Shenmue 2. The latter would have needed a significantly deeper world, mind blowing innovations and darker atmosphere to reach the same level of satisfaction at the time.

Regarding Shenmue 3, I view it like the last Pokemon. Both games are filled with flaws, voids and declines but they're relying on the natural excellence of their respective concept to deliver an enjoyable experience that sometimes we didn't even notice. Respecting the basic blueprint means you will never lose - but obviously, it doesn't mean you win neither.
 
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