Did Shenmue 3 hurt the series?

[spud1897]

@tomboz specified that in a previous post and linked me an article that examplifies what you are saying.
Unfortunately I didnt take that into account when I posted the values I mentioned.
I would like to create a thread where we could talk about this but I don't know if it will be worth it considering that the values may vary depending on the publisher, the deal between them and the studio and also the platform where the game will launch.
Nevertheless I can created the thread if you guys are interested in discussing this topic.
View attachment 9004

I think its still an interesting topic. Go for it.

 

[Toua77]

The fact that we even have to ask these questions, yeah I think the perception of the series took a bit of a hit. With that said onto the next one.

 

[iknifaugood]

It shows the memorisation of a move far more deeply over a more significant period this time around. It's far more fleshed out than, say, Ryo mastering Demon’s Drop from Master Baihu just by watching. Granted, you cannot use the Body Check/Reverse Body Check in-game, which is a fair criticism, but neither could you use Demon’s Triangle or the Predictive Explosion in S2 – both moves are pretty much useless. In S3, Ryo uses two moves in the game’s QTEs which is at least trying to make the moves more purposeful.

I don't dislike learning moves more in depth in theory, but S3 didn't do a good job justifying it. For one, Ryo is an adept martial artist, he is easily able to master moves simply by reading them on a piece of paper and learning moves has never really been portrayed as an issue for him so it's very weird to suddenly have it be something that takes days. For another, the move isn't anything special, it's a basic hip check; Ryo has mastered far more complex movements. And finally, again, the way the move is inserted into the storyline is haphazard at best, it's what you spend much of your time in Bailu Village doing instead of learning about the mirrors, the poem, Phantom River Stone, or Iwao and Sunming's time there. I would not like Xiuying's training either if was totally divorced from learning about the wude, learning about Ziming, the Wulinshu, and the Chawan signs and only resulted in Ryo learning CEA.

I don’t think criticising S3 for putting the player through hoops is fair. From the forklift job in S1, to the halting of any progress until the player earns money, to the book airing in S2 – this series has put players through a grind from the beginning. It's just that now, it's being applied to a section of the game where Ryo is learning some kung fu, and…suddenly this is all a bit too noticeable and far too egregious for you?

Because it brings the story to a grinding halt as opposed to the instances in S1 and 2, which are woven into the story. Ryo gets a job in S1 to infiltrate a gang, not to grind for money. He trains in S2 to learn about Yuanda Zhu, and also learns about a bunch of other interesting things along the way. In S3, the story stops till Ryo learns a move then it's allowed to continue.

Besides, Ryo has been put through a grind to learn moves before in the series: he learns the Horseshoe Kick at Man Mo Temple if the player manages to air out 10 piles of books. Where's your criticism there?

It's an optional reward? The story doesn't stop till Ryo successfully airs out 10 piles of books to get the move.

If you have a problem with “magic counter moves” that the plot hinges on, I advise that you never play this game:

I almost don't even want to respond to this because I've already addressed it.
1. Ryo learns the move before he even meets Dou Niu.
2. It's not the move that beats him, you can use the move throughout the fight.
3. Do you notice how that cutscene ties everything together thematically? Everything that Xiuying teaches Ryo becomes relevant; he clears his mind, focuses on himself, and uses his skills to protect his friends. That's why he's able to defeat Dou Niu, because he's learned and evolved as a martial artist.

In S3, Ryo loses a fight to 2 Muscle-y guys and has to learn 2 bizarrely similar moves in order to defeat them. And that takes up the bulk of the story in S3.

OK, he breaks JIE because he’s forced to by a street performer (?), then learns what JIE is before engaging in several street fights for money with buzzing crowds screaming in amazement. I’m confused as to what is being ‘shown’ here?

JIE is shown to us as a martial artist who has left the life of training to pursue money by performing his moves (who makes Ryo perform for him). All the other wude are similarly shown to us, but JIE is the only one that's about not doing something, so it has to be shown in a different way. Ryo fights in street fights but he doesn't give up his quest to become a street fighter; that's a pretty big difference. Also, Ryo is not some kind of wude master at the end of S2.

Also, isn't Ryo learning a move in gameplay instead of a cutscene, and feeling tested in the wine/bun quest (just like how forklifting simulated mild feelings of labour) not also “show, don’t tell” storytelling?

I mean, he has to bribe an old man several times to learn a move, if you want to argue why it needs to take the amount of time it takes to get the point across and argue that it's a well told story be my guest. I don't think that it is.

In Shenmue 1, Ryo receives a letter from Zhu warning of impending doom and putting him in touch with Yaowen Chen. You would have thought that Chen would have reached out in secret to Iwao given that the Hazuki residence is just down the road and people are coming to kill him for a mirror that will bring about the apocalypse. It's not like they can’t leave the Warehouse lest they be seen, Gui Zhang even travels one day as far as Sakuragaoka! However, Chen does nothing. Ryo uses his father’s passphrase on the phone, even saying in some versions of the conversation “Isn’t this the Chen residence? I received a letter – Oops!” so it's clear who this young guy must be. Yet Ryo has to jump through hoops to track down Chen who clearly knows who Ryo is (“Wait Gui Zhang!”) and what happened to him (“But it would appear this letter arrived too late”). You would have thought Chen would be more proactive given that Iwao’s life was at stake and he holds mirrors that could destroy the world, but he rests Ryo’s safety on a guess (“Perhaps [Lan Di] did not realise your father had both [mirrors]”).

I think you should play S1 again. Zhu's letter is to Iwao, with instructions on how to contact Master Chen so what makes you think that Iwao and Master Chen know each other? Master Chen knows Yuanda Zhu and knows about the mirror but he didn't even know that the mirror was stolen (how would he?). So I really don't understand your point.

So I struggle to see why Sun testing Ryo’s determination here in the story when Shenhua’s father is in peril is now suddenly such a glaring problem when we could at the previous games where characters are acting a bit irrationally when compared to how someone in real life. Heck, Ryo can choose to waste time buying capsule toys or playing arcade games in Kowloon while knowing that Yuanda Zhu is in danger!

Because the story in S1 and 2 is never at odds with the player's goal as it is in S3. The one glaring oversight in S2 is when Zhang suddenly knows the location of Yuanda Zhu when he's in Kowloon when he didn't in Wan Chai. Buying capsule toys by choice is different than the story requiring it. In the story of S2, Ryo is shown following every possible lead to find Zhu as fast as possible (and he does!).

But we as fans understand that Shenmue is a life simulator and there are challenges in life that test your patience, whether it be forklift jobs, book airing, carrying crates, walking planks, grinding for cash, getting robbed, or repeatedly fetching someone food. This is nothing new.

Those parts are indeed annoying but in S1 and 2 they serve a broader narrative purpose (except the paywalls in S2, which are far less intrusive). In S3 they serve only to pad the length of the game.

Ryo buys Lao Ju at Tao-Get and the owner stops him saying “This isn’t something for as young as you.” Ryo uses persuasion on the owner saying he desperately needs it, and the owner irresponsibly lets him off while making a profit considering its an expensive item. The scene is brief (and could be longer), but it's there.

So he's asked to buy expensive wine, then he grinds enough money to buy expensive wine and then buys expensive wine. By that logic, I "get crafty" several times a day! This really is grasping at straws: if Ryo was to show his "craftiness", surely he would need to get the wine in some other way than the way that literally everyone obtains wine.

Ryo uses a “magic counter move” to defeat Dou Niu when all hope is lost because the immovable tank is just too powerful ("Damn...what shall I do?!). After clearing his mind, Ryo switches his strategy to insert the magic move into the fight at the appropriate time. He is being strategic, or "crafty". Dou Niu had the raw strength, but Ryo had a clearer mind and could make better judgements to call upon the right move when Dou Niu least expected it to finish the tank off "magically” in one-hit.

See above.

Also, I brought up that Jaden is being crafty in the scene, I never said it was all about a magic move, read my post again…

I know. I said that Jaden was being crafty in that scene, you were comparing him to Ryo's craftiness in S3, but he isn't being crafty; he's using a magic move that he learned specifically for that purpose!

 

[Jerrid'sRamenShop]

It did hurt the series. A lot of fans were wishing for the series to continue with bated breath. Besides the remake of Final Fantasy 7, I am not sure of such a beloved game and one from a such unique stand point of development history to have been wanted so much by it's loyal fans. And those same loyal fans also backed it and were eagerly awaiting the release on Steam. Only to have it delayed. We all want money, but the backing, plus the money they would of received would have been enough from Steam alone, much less multiple platform and delivery services.

Instead the devs or publisher chose to be greedy and it hurt the community by doing an exclusive deal with Epic, regardless of their previous promises. I am not sure if the community was split in half or not, but a lot of people were not happy. Some people will simply refuse to buy a game from Epic, no matter if it is just another point and click away. What is worse, they may feel so betrayed now that they never bother buying the game or future releases regardless in the future even when it does come to Steam. Maybe it was worth it to the devs and or the publisher to be able to cover themselves in money, but was it also worth the cost to hurt a good portion of your loyal fan base?

And do not even get me started on that lazy and altered port of Shenmue 1&2 for the PC...

 

[Dmitriy1]

It did hurt the series. A lot of fans were wishing for the series to continue with bated breath. Besides the remake of Final Fantasy 7, I am not sure of such a beloved game and one from a such unique stand point of development history to have been wanted so much by it's loyal fans. And those same loyal fans also backed it and were eagerly awaiting the release on Steam. Only to have it delayed. We all want money, but the backing, plus the money they would of received would have been enough from Steam alone, much less multiple platform and delivery services.

Instead the devs or publisher chose to be greedy and it hurt the community by doing an exclusive deal with Epic, regardless of their previous promises. I am not sure if the community was split in half or not, but a lot of people were not happy. Some people will simply refuse to buy a game from Epic, no matter if it is just another point and click away. What is worse, they may feel so betrayed now that they never bother buying the game or future releases regardless in the future even when it does come to Steam. Maybe it was worth it to the devs and or the publisher to be able to cover themselves in money, but was it also worth the cost to hurt a good portion of your loyal fan base?

And do not even get me started on that lazy and altered port of Shenmue 1&2 for the PC...

The game you did get as polished as it was, with all it's problems was only due to the Epic deal. Suzuki hinted what the fighting might have been in 2015. Stupid QTEs only. Would you prefer that so that Steam could rip off it's 15% cause it's a must have monopoly for it's zealots? If in 2002 you were told you had to say buy another console for $300 you wouldn't? In 2001 U.S. fans were given a choice of paying $300, or never playing S2. I imported the British one, but not all even knew how to do it. Compare that betrayal and greed to OMG installing another free launcher, with even more cool exclusives on it. Ancestors became one of my favorite games actually.

 

[spud1897]

None of the Epic money went to YSNET

 

[Jerrid'sRamenShop]

The game you did get as polished as it was, with all it's problems was only due to the Epic deal. Suzuki hinted what the fighting might have been in 2015. Stupid QTEs only. Would you prefer that so that Steam could rip off it's 15% cause it's a must have monopoly for it's zealots? If in 2002 you were told you had to say buy another console for $300 you wouldn't? In 2001 U.S. fans were given a choice of paying $300, or never playing S2. I imported the British one, but not all even knew how to do it. Compare that betrayal and greed to OMG installing another free launcher, with even more cool exclusives on it. Ancestors became one of my favorite games actually.

I am not buying, what it is you are trying to sell. You are blaming Steam for being a great platform that other devs and pubs want to put their games on and that the majority of players want to play it on. S3 could of went to all three- Epic, Steam and GoG even and what ever else is out there, had the devs or pubs chose to.

Instead they were greedy. They were helped greatly by the fans and then screwed them over. They had enough money without Epic's help. Also unless Epic is not charging anything, I am not too concerned with your percentage talking points.

The Dreamcast failed. It kind of sucked, but it is what it is. We were lucky we were even able to play Shenmue 2 at all, plus the other great games of Sega that went to the XBOX. But that has absolutely nothing to do with S3 taking the money and running with Epic. I am not even sure what you were trying to do with that. o_0

 

[ShenSun]

Are people on the internet still going mad over everything Epic games? Or has that trend passed?

It would have been great if that Epic and Shenmue situation never happened the way it did, and I know it p!ssed off a lot of people behind the Shenmue 3 project as it wasn't their call. That said and I know i'm in the minority here, but I don't blame Deep Silver for making the Epic deal.

Epic were giving publishers around 10 - 11 million dollars for projects back then. Combine that with the 7 million from the kickstarter and slacker backer campaign and you get around 18 million dollars covered. The Shenmue 3 project in total was 20 million. It's hard to say if Shenmue 3 would have made money if those conditions weren't put in place. According to Deep Silver's financial report, Shenmue 3 was the driving force behind their revenue in the fall of 2019. For all we know, the safety net of the Epic money may have secured the future of the franchise by allowing it to make profit with the publisher. This is all speculation on my part, so it's hard to say.

My problem with everything was the kickstarter and how they promised steam keys on the survey and then changed their mind once the deal was made. That's wrong and should have never happened. So fans being upset about that aspect, i don't blame them and I fully support them.

That said though, the entire outrage about Epic back in the day in general was pathetic. Seeing people shout and scream about everything and throwing death threats and abuse at developers was insanity. Those people should be ashamed of themselves. Disagreement is fine, but the amount of hate and hyberbolic drama that was caused was just stupid.

Personally, I don't really care about the different launchers. I use both Epic and steam and they're both great. I dunno if that Epic hate trend is still going on as I don't really pay attention to that nonsense, but I'm assuming it's no longer a thing and was just a internet, outrage, bandwagon forum trend back in the day. From what I can tell, most gamers and people in general don't really care about that kinda thing and have more important things to worry about than an application

Hopefully in the future, Sega fund everything related to Shenmue. It seems Ysnet are after a bigger budget for the next two games, which makes me think they have very high hopes of those two games becoming a reality. If Sega are not behind the sequels, then I wouldn't blame them for doing another deal with Epic before they announce the project. The money has to come from somewhere. I don't think Epic are giving out money now like they use to though, so who knows.

With regards to if Shenmue 3 hurt the series. I don't think so at all. I love the Resident Evil series. I love Resident Evil 1, 2,3,4,7 and dislike heavily Resident Evil 5 and 6. I still love the series overall.

I love the Metal gear series. I loved Metal Gear Solid 1,3 and Peace Walker. I dislike Metal Gear Solid 2,4 and 5. I still love the series overall

I love the Yakuza series. I loved Yakuza 0.2,4,5 and I dislike Yakuza 1 and 3. I still like the series overall.

The point is, once the series is complete, there will be some strong entries and some weak entries like there are with every other long running franchise. That and fans will love and dislike different entries from one another. That's just how it goes.

I can promise you all Shenmue 4 and 5 will divide the fanbase no matter what it does.

I personally liked Shenmue 3. If you didn't like it, fair enough i respect your opinion. My only issue with some fans are, those who have to insert their disapproval of the game in every single Shenmue 3 conversation, even if the discussion is about something completely separate. That and the fans who act as if their life is ruined by Shenmue 3 and they will never touch anything Shenmue related again in the future. If you feel that way, cool. I think its silly, but everyone's entitled to their opinion.

The point is, some fans don't have to shout and scream about it at every opportunity and constantly let all of us know in every single discussion. Then again, we are in the internet age, where snarky remarks and hyberbolic comments to get attention and likes are a thing now. Crazy times we live in.

On to Shenmue 4......

 

[Thomasina]

With regards to if Shenmue 3 hurt the series. I don't think so at all. I love the Resident Evil series. I love Resident Evil 1, 2,3,4,7 and dislike heavily Resident Evil 5 and 6. I still love the series overall.

Resident Evil isn't a direct continuation tho. It's a different scenario. You can skip a couple RE games and nothing is lost because each game has its own story. But for Shenmue, a bad game means a missed opportunity or a shortcoming in the overall story because it one journey spread out over multiple games.

For Shenmue 3 I think we've lost something special because of it. I doubt we'll go back to Bailu again, and it seems from S2 that Bailu is basically the beginning of everything, but we got so little information out of it. I don't know how everything important that I thought we should have learned from Bailu can be recovered or retold in the future.

As far as Epic, I still haven't installed or bought any games from them. I don't want to. If a game is announced as exclusive to Epic, then that game is off my radar and will not get my money until it's off epic, if at all. Manifold Garden for example recently hit Steam and I probably won't bother with it. There's some kind of like a relief when a game "disappears" for a year and I realize that I don't actually need that game and I'm fine without it. I don't know how to say it so it makes sense. It's not that I'm spiteful toward that developer, obviously they'll be greatful for a deal that keeps their studio afloat, it's just that their deal makes me realize that a game I would have bought at launch, well, I don't actually need it at launch, or at the steam launch, and maybe I don't need it at all.

And obviously it goes without saying that death threats are always stupid and bad. I support the "outrage" and the request for refunds and I agree the move damaged the Shenmue name, but obviously I'll never support the death threats. I sort of write the death threats off as nothing more than the bottom of the barrel trolling. Everything gets death threats these days.

 

[Jerrid'sRamenShop]

Are people on the internet still going mad over everything Epic games? Or has that trend passed?

It would have been great if that Epic and Shenmue situation never happened the way it did, and I know it p!ssed off a lot of people behind the Shenmue 3 project as it wasn't their call. That said and I know i'm in the minority here, but I don't blame Deep Silver for making the Epic deal.

Epic were giving publishers around 10 - 11 million dollars for projects back then. Combine that with the 7 million from the kickstarter and slacker backer campaign and you get around 18 million dollars covered. The Shenmue 3 project in total was 20 million. It's hard to say if Shenmue 3 would have made money if those conditions weren't put in place. According to Deep Silver's financial report, Shenmue 3 was the driving force behind their revenue in the fall of 2019. For all we know, the safety net of the Epic money may have secured the future of the franchise by allowing it to make profit with the publisher. This is all speculation on my part, so it's hard to say.

My problem with everything was the kickstarter and how they promised steam keys on the survey and then changed their mind once the deal was made. That's wrong and should have never happened. So fans being upset about that aspect, i don't blame them and I fully support them.

That said though, the entire outrage about Epic back in the day in general was pathetic. Seeing people shout and scream about everything and throwing death threats and abuse at developers was insanity. Those people should be ashamed of themselves. Disagreement is fine, but the amount of hate and hyberbolic drama that was caused was just stupid.

Personally, I don't really care about the different launchers. I use both Epic and steam and they're both great. I dunno if that Epic hate trend is still going on as I don't really pay attention to that nonsense, but I'm assuming it's no longer a thing and was just a internet, outrage, bandwagon forum trend back in the day. From what I can tell, most gamers and people in general don't really care about that kinda thing and have more important things to worry about than an application

Hopefully in the future, Sega fund everything related to Shenmue. It seems Ysnet are after a bigger budget for the next two games, which makes me think they have very high hopes of those two games becoming a reality. If Sega are not behind the sequels, then I wouldn't blame them for doing another deal with Epic before they announce the project. The money has to come from somewhere. I don't think Epic are giving out money now like they use to though, so who knows.

As long as Epic keeps stealing games away that were already promised on Steam and other platforms, the trend will continue. And yes there is a time limit to the exclusivity, but as far as many people are concerned, it's to late for that. They will simply not buy it or play the game in underhanded ways. And death threats are never good. And yet you would think by the outrage Epic would learn, but they do not. S3 is not the only game that received outrage. Epic has caused outrage many times over how it deals with exclusivity.

And where was Epic before S3 really took off? They have a tendency to watch for what games are going to be looked forward to the most and then reel them in with money and then hopefully pull those people who do not really care about their business practices with them. If there was not already such hoopla over S3, Epic would never of bothered. In fact S3 could of crashed and burned in getting their feet on the ground and the fans of Shenmue be damned. But there was such interest in it, even S3 getting it's own page for discussion on Steam and Epic pulled the rug out from under them.

Some people do not care about a lot of things, even very important things. Some have a lack of morals, a lack of pride or a lack of energy. Others go way over board. But if you are passionate about something, you should state your case in reasonable ways. Maybe Epic will be wiser. But S3 has already been tainted and the coming Shenmues may already be less favored. And without the fans you have nothing... except money from Epic I suppose. But remember, if the interest is less next time, Epic wont give a damn about the continuation of the series anyway.

 

[Thomasina]

And where was Epic before S3 really took off? They have a tendency to watch for what games are going to be looked forward to the most and then reel them in with money and then hopefully pull those people who do not really care about their business practices with them. If there was not already such hoopla over S3, Epic would never of bothered. In fact S3 could of crashed and burned in getting their feet on the ground and the fans of Shenmue be damned. But there was such interest in it, even S3 getting it's own page for discussion on Steam and Epic pulled the rug out from under them.

There's something definitely distasteful about sitting idly by and just gauging which games have the most followers. It would be a different scenario if Epic worked with devs and helped get projects off the ground and saw them through to completion. I would support that, but instead the tactic of snatching a game 3 weeks before launch is pretty shitty. It's a very disingenuous approach to aiding developers and supporting new ideas and projects.

For all the damage done, will epic be there for the development of Shenmue 4? Or was it just a one and done deal and epic doesn't actually care about supporting Shenmue as a whole?

 

[WuyingRen]

There's something definitely distasteful about sitting idly by and just gauging which games have the most followers. It would be a different scenario if Epic worked with devs and helped get projects off the ground and saw them through to completion. I would support that, but instead the tactic of snatching a game 3 weeks before launch is pretty shitty. It's a very disingenuous approach to aiding developers and supporting new ideas and projects.

For all the damage done, will epic be there for the development of Shenmue 4? Or was it just a one and done deal and epic doesn't actually care about supporting Shenmue as a whole?

I don’t see how it’s distasteful at all. In fact, couldn’t the exact same argument be made of Deep Silver? They had very little interest in the project until the record breaking Kickstarter and were likely one of the many publishers Yu approached before going down the crowdfunding road.

These are businesses we’re talking about and so I don’t see how it’s at all fair to judge them for making business decisions. Both companies waited until a point where they felt that the risk was low enough to warrant investment. Had they acted before they point they wouldn’t be very good businesses and likely would have gone bankrupt a long time ago.

People talk as if Epic are forcing developers and publishers to take their money at gun point, but they’re more than welcome to decline Epic’s proposal. Some do, but who are we to judge the ones that take the $10m+?

We got a better game out of it, Yu got to add more of the features that he wanted and benefited financially, Deep Silver got to ensure they didn’t lose money on the project and Epic were able to drive a few more PC gamers to their platform. Everybody wins, apart from the handful of gamers who - heaven forbid - had to download a different launcher that, missing achievements aside, has pretty much no bearing on the gameplay experience.

To some degree I understand the frustration of getting something different than what they were anticipating, but it’s the equivalent of ordering a medium rare steak and it coming out medium. The way some people talk, you’d think they’d received a human head on their plate instead.

 

[FRASIER]

I have't finished the game yet. But my immediate thoughts are that it did harm the series. It didn't feel like the spiritual successor I was hoping for. Even the small things such as the logo change and art style. these all detached me from what I once knew and loved. Shenmue will always be S1&S2 for me. Somewhere, somehow, something got lost.

 

[bigman36]

Shenmue 1&2 (especially 2) are up there with the greatest video game experiences ever. Up there with Ocarina of Time to me.

Its through my love of the Shenmue series that I can say that Shenmue 3 overall sucked. It was great to be back in that world but the game was severely lacking in the most important thing for Shenmue and that is THE STORY.

S3 didnt hurt the series for me as Ill always love the experience of playing 1&2 and still want to know how the saga ends. I wont be looking forward to play S4 (if development is anything like it was for S3), but I would read a book or comic to see the end of the story.

 

[KiddMarine]

the most important thing for Shenmue and that is THE STORY.

nah

 

[BruceWayne911]

To those who say Shenmue 3 has hurt the overall series I ask you, would you rather live in a reality where we are still hoping and praying for a continuation of the series? I understand that Shenmue 3 isn't the quality sequel following the great game Shenmue 2 was but a this point something is better than nothing. Also the announcement of Shenmue has sparked the development of a Shenmue anime. I'm still mind blown by this.

Shenmue 1&2 were such great games because Yu had a amazing development team and unlimited funding. Those days are over. There is a chance that Shenmue 3 was downgraded in order to make Shenmue 4 a overall better game. I personally don't believe this though, I expect Shenmue 4&5 to be the same quality as Shenmue 3. The funding isn't there to give us what we truly want.

 

[murdiaries]

I didn't expect to have a triple A game (as Shenmue 1-2 were) but whatever happened during development of SM3 ended up cutting a whole area, cramming / diluting story with grinding, a mashed up script, characters which we barely interact with and an incomplete fighting system.

I know that Yu and YS Net acknowledged this by reading interviews and that's why I'm sure SM4 will be awesome!

 

[Vasid]

I do think Shenmue 3 ended up hurting the series' reputation, and I think that because if you look at most places where there are comments about Shenmue 3 they're usually negative or at least "meh". That said Shenmue 1 & 2 didn't exactly have a lot of good will built up outside of the Shenmue community and a lot of people didn't like those games either.

Shenmue 3 took away the mystery of what a Shenmue 3 would look and feel like, and removed a lot of the "cult classic" hype the first two had built up over the years. This is sort of the problem with extremely late sequels, they always tend to disappoint either the generation who grew up with the originals or the new generation attempting to get in to the series for the first time. It happens with everything and sadly Shenmue wasn't spared this fate.

Does this mean the series can't continue? I hope not, there's still room for improvement and hope. Does this mean the general audience is thirsting for Shenmue 4? I'm afraid it looks like they're not, but to be fair if you really look at gaming demographics most people weren't thirsting for Shenmue 3. These days games don't have to be internationally beloved to be successful, modern day gaming niches are as massive as former major fandoms used to be in the 2000's when Shenmue was first released. If Yu can keep making games that encourage a large enough audience to put up money for them then Shenmue will continue and perhaps see a conclusion. The question with games, sadly due to their nature as a business, is always "Who is willing to pay for that and how much are they willing to pay?"

Plenty of people are still willing to pay for Shenmue, I'm just afraid any delusions anyone had of Shenmue getting as big as say Call of Duty or even Assassin's Creed, or perhaps even other contemporary open world action RPGs like The Witcher 3 or Cyberpunk... Well I'm afraid that's not going to happen right now at least not with how Shenmue 3 turned out.

TL;DR It hurt but it didn't hurt as much as you'd think from all the negativity surrounding it.

 

[xatruio]

Funny how there still seems to even be discussion... when we've an Anime in production and continual merch/collector's releases.

Sure, they're not Shenmue 4, but they're a means to more exposure and funding and relevance.

 

[Alex banana]

If the controversies before release caused it to fail then so be it. Video game fans are whiny entitled children on a good day. Add further entitlement with a Kickstarter, sky-high subjective nostalgia and perhaps a bit of ignorance on the sensitiveness of the fans from Yu Suzuki and it's a recipe for disaster. Quite frankly fans don't deserve the really good game that came of it.

In regards to complaints about the story-
He had to prioritise based on the budget, but the world, activities, gameplay systems and soundtrack all come before the story and always have. Yu Suzuki has said that numerous times. The ending of Shenmue 1 was a late decision in the process as an example.

Fans wanted the 'essence' of Shenmue and he gave it to them. It simply did not have the budget to appeal to everyone else and it may not get another chance to. Like a pyramid narrowing the higher it gets, this series will continue to lose fans until it has a huge budget to appeal to other fans or transforms into something completely different i.e. 2d, anime, comics.

Wishful thinking I know, but what would be amazing though is if they were waiting for 3's steam release to pass its course before announcing Shenmue 4 in order to not prevent any lost sales. The anime acting as good advertising for steam's release perhaps.