Does Shenmue need to be ‘groundbreaking’ to be considered successful?

[SliverOfSand]

I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit. When Shenmue 1 first released, it was a big deal because it was a breakthrough in video game graphics, as well as creating the ‘open-world’ element. Also, the rumor that it cost $70 million dollars helped in drawing the public’s attention. Now with three, what made it groundbreaking was the 18 year wait for even just an announcement to happen. I believe that a wait that long made the actual announcement even more exciting than if it had happened two or three years after 2 released. The anticipation of a continuation is probably what contributed to getting all the funding they did, and what made it the highest-funded video game on kickstarter at the time.

But once it actually released, many reviews stated that the game was fundamentally outdated, graphics and gameplay wise. I think if a kickstarter for Shenmue 4 is announced, it would have a much harder time getting the funding it needs, since now the public wouldn’t be so keen on it. Especially when some bigger youtubers are making a huge deal about how ‘dissapointing’ and ‘terrible’ the game is. I honestly don’t think another kickstarter will happen, or that what people say on youtube has any effect at the possibility of a sequel, I just think that for the public to see Shenmue as a success, it has to do something ‘groundbreaking’ or else it is considered a failure. Shenmue 1 and 2 weren’t considered to be a success financially, but more in an ‘advancing the gaming industry’ type of way. When Shenmue 3 tried to do things that made the first two impressive, it fell flat with people who weren’t as invested in the series, since video games have come so far since the first two entries.

I honestly enjoyed 3, and even though there are some flaws, it feels like a true continuation. It doesn’t feel like a reboot of the series, which might be what some people expected. They wanted things to be modernized. To make it like other AAA games. That’s what worries me about 4. In an interview I read recently, Yu Susuki said that he is planning to make it more modern. And honestly, I don’t think he has a choice. If a sequel is going to be made, it has to make changes to be viable to a publisher.

I think that a lot of people outside the fanbase have this expectation of Shenmue that is unrealistic. So what if it feels like a dreamcast game? I personally enjoy that. It doesn’t have to be like a modern AAA game, because then it wouldn’t be a Shenmue game. I think that I’m just worried that there isn’t a ‘wow’ factor to help get Shenmue 4 off the ground. The first two had the advanced technological aspect, and the third had the anticipation. Is there something that 4 could do to change the public perception of the series, without losing what makes Shenmue special?

 

[Rikitatsu]

There is nothing outdated about Shenmue 3, people love to throw that term around too often. The Shenmue formula hasn't been attempted by anyone else, let alone surpassed, (And please don't say Yakuza...)

I think what brought Shenmue 3 down was a combination of different factors, first, it was coming off the flawed HD remasters, which were almost broken on release...If people can't get into 1&2, they won't get into 3... secondly, the actual quality of certain aspects in the game, such as the lackluster combat, and story, especially it's conclusion, made even the fanbase grumpy... Facial animations and character models, coupled with dodgy localization, made the game an easy target for meme-ing and Youtubers like Dunkey and Penguinz who thrive on that shit...

Due to that, the game just had a bad reputation, full stop. Search "Shenmue 3" on Youtube, by far the highest viewed videos are straight up shitting on the game... Some them are being disingenuous about their criticism, but people take it at face value.

Therefore, Shenmue 3 is branded a "bad game" by the general gaming community.

I don't think not being groundbreaking was a factor in it's lack of success, nor do I think it will be a factor in a possible Shenmue 4.

 

[SliverOfSand]

There is nothing outdated about Shenmue 3, people love to throw that term around too often. The Shenmue formula hasn't been attempted by anyone else, let alone surpassed, (And please don't say Yakuza...)

I think what brought Shenmue 3 down was a combination of different factors, first, it was coming off the flawed HD remasters, which were almost broken on release...If people can't get into 1&2, they won't get into 3... secondly, the actual quality of certain aspects in the game, such as the lackluster combat, and story, especially it's conclusion, made even the fanbase grumpy... Facial animations and character models, coupled with dodgy localization, made the game an easy target for meme-ing and Youtubers like Dunkey and Penguinz who thrive on that shit...

Due to that, the game just had a bad reputation, full stop. Search "Shenmue 3" on Youtube, by far the highest viewed videos are straight up shitting on the game... Some them are being disingenuous about their criticism, but people take it at face value.

Therefore, Shenmue 3 is branded a "bad game" by the general gaming community.

I don't think not being groundbreaking was a factor in it's lack of success, nor do I think it will be a factor in a possible Shenmue 4.

I didn’t mean to imply that 3 as a game had to be groundbreaking, just the fact that there was so much hype around it when the announcement was made which lead to it’s success on Kickstarter. I also think that the game mechanics are more a stylistic choice, but because it isn’t like more popular games, people write it off as outdated.

I agree with the fact that no other games have been able to recreate a Shenmue style game. The problem with that is that many people just don’t click with Shenmue. That’s fine, to each their own, but where that becomes an issue is when the studio or publisher is looking to make a sequel. They need to get funding for it, and if the previous game was not well received, then it will make it harder to get enough funding for a sequel. Yu Susuki has stated multiple times that he wants to make Shenmue 4 more accessible for others, not just the fans. That is where my question comes in. Theoretically, what could Shenmue 4 do differently to reach that wider audience? And what effect would that have on the Shenmue formula?

 

[Tsukuyomimagi99]

In my opinion, no it doesn't. All Shenmue needs to do is be a compelling experience and it could sell itself on that. Embracer who owns Koch Media who owns Deep Silver stated that Shenmue III sold "Fine" and that it was a "niche product". Ryu ga Gotoku originally started as a niche product and now is one of SEGA's tentpole franchises. Therefore, I think that as long as Shenmue is good, its reputation will sell the series itself.

 

[RyoHazuki84]

There is nothing outdated about Shenmue 3, people love to throw that term around too often. The Shenmue formula hasn't been attempted by anyone else, let alone surpassed, (And please don't say Yakuza...)

Yes, not many "open-world games" have the depth that Shenmue has. So many open-world games are as wide as an ocean but as deep as a puddle (looking at you Final Fantasy XV). Shenmue may not be as wide as an ocean but as deep as let's maybe say the Arctic Ocean. Shenmue pretty much allows you to explore its world in a very organic manner as if you're really there. I remember a video called GTAV's open-world is fun, but feels more like a playground than an actual world. In Shenmue, I like interacting with the community, visiting the local businesses, buying things at the convenience store, playing arcade games, etc.

I love how NPCs teach you martial arts moves. You "translate" the instructions into the controller. In every other open-world game, the people are there, but don't feel like they exisit in the way that Shenmue's NPCs do.