Dojo Podcast: What do you want answering in future Shenmue games?

spud1897

spud1897

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Hey everyone,

I think it would be fair to say that one common theme around Shenmue III is that the game, while solid overall, lacks story progression and character development. However, on the flip side, it hasn't gone and changed huge story elements that weren't there at the end of Shenmue II.

So for a future podcast episode we're asking you guys what storylines/questions do you want answering in future Shenmue games. One example could be the Xiuing, Ziming storyline. Another would be the origin of the white leaf found in the Dojo basement.

List them in this topic and we will pick up discussion on as many as we can in a future podcast episode!
 
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spud1897 said:
Hey everyone,

I think it would be fair to say that one common theme around Shenmue III is that the game, while solid overall, lacks story progression and character development. However, on the flip side, it hasn't gone and changed huge story elements that weren't there at the end if Shenmue II.

So for a future podcast episode we're asking you guys what storylines/questions do you want answering in future Shenmue games. One example could be the Xiuing, Ziming storyline. Another would be the origin of the white leaf found in the Dojo basement.

List them in this topic and we will pick up discussion on as many as we can in a future podcast episode!
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First of all thank you spud1897 for creating this thread; it is a very important theme to discuss among shenmue fans and it will certainly be interesting to hear everyone's opinion about it.
For me; following the events and revelations we got from Shenmue 3 it would be natural for Shenmue 4 to reveal what really happen between Iwao and Zhao Sunming; following that Shenmue 4 should also expand upon the origin of the mirrors and what happened for them to be locked away at the cliff temple.
Another thing that Shenmue 4 can do is start to reveal Shenhua's past now that her adoptive father Yuan as been rescued from the Chiyoumen.
I would also think it would be nice for Ryo to meet in Shenmue 4 the master that wrote the poem in the Mysterious Scroll that Ryo found in the Hazuki Dojo.
These are the things that I think should be answered in Shenmue 4.
 
Mine isn't anywhere near as important as the core mysteries like Shenhua's lineage, the mirrors/treasure, Ziming Hong and Zhao's death which should absolutely take precedence in being addressed for this story to reach a satisfying conclusion. But I do wonder if mine will be explored by the end.

The series keeps banging us over the head with the fact that Ryo has no time for women. If romance were not important to a story like Shenmue, then they wouldn't even bring it up nearly as often as they do. Games like Ghost of Tsushima don't really have time for a romance plot (aside from maybe one or two subtle hints) and just focus on the main samurai plot without constantly bringing up Jin's lack of a partner. Yet it feels as if everywhere Ryo ventures in each Shenmue game, there's a woman (or man) who ends up falling for him and the game shows Ryo reacting awkwardly each time. Even in Shenmue 3, the Bailu locals keep asking when Ryo and Shenhua's wedding will be, or Niao Sun pries about whether Shenhua is Ryo's girlfriend - Ryo becomes embarrassed. Rinse and repeat.

Then you have Yu Suzuki describing Shenmue 3's early draft as incorporating the theme of romance (I take it that got cut?) and the Project Berkley CD contains a music poem that outlines Shenmue's story which drops hints like these towards the end...

1615114021565.png

...so I wonder if when Ryo's revenge arc is done whether his awkwardness will soften and by the end the player will get to choose someone for him e.g. Nozomi, Shenhua, Joy. I think there has to be some end result to this ongoing joke given just how often it gets brought up.
 
The White Leaf is one lingering question I've always wondered about. I thought that would have came up in Bailu but I was wrong on that one, but yet, it's still in the inventory so clearly it means something and its something we haven't gotten to yet.

I think SIV is totally gonna delve more into the structure of the Chi You Men. I feel like its time with the introduction of Niao Sun at the end of III and setting up the civil war. If III was all about getting to know Shenhua and learning the history of the mirrors then I think SIV will mostly be concerned with the Chi You Men considering we're hot on their tails at the end of SIII and the civil war has been established.

So I could see Ziming finally appearing in SIV...the real question is will Xiuying show up in SIV too?

I also want kind of want further answers as to what exactly Shenhua did to the thugs in that interrogation scene. Obviously there is something up with Shenhua and there is still more to be told about her and the prophecy so now that we know her, it's time to delve into the prophecy. I have to wonder, will that one moment of Shenhua collecting explosive energy from the Project Berkley teaser finally play out in SIV?

Also, Master Baihu? Will that ever be followed up on or was it always destined to be a one off. I kind of wanted to know more about that guy ever since we fought him in SII.

As to the revelation of what happened between Iwao and Sunming....it would make sense for it to finally be revealed in SIV....BUT will it be a mislead or a half truth instead of the full objective truth? I could see someone in the Chiyoumen explaining a version of what happened but its actually a lie designed to manipulate Ryo.

Maybe Niao Sun could toy with Ryo's head a little and try manipulating him for her own gain by giving him the answer he wants to hear as opposed to the truth?

Wouldn't that make sense regarding the civil war at hand within Chi You Men? The enemy of my enemy is my friend? I could see Niao Sun manipulating Ryo with a fabricated story and then the real truth being exposed in say, Shenmue V.

Part of me thinks we won't get the real truth as to what really happened between Ziming and Iwao until we get to Mengcun (if we get there)...but I could see Niao Sun trying to exploit Ryo for her benefit. I've never been a big fan of the whole "Ryo and Lan Di" uneasy alliance theory that people like Huber have mentioned...but I could see Niao Sun trying to manipulate Ryo for her benefit to fuck with Lan Di some more.

Actually, that could make an interesting twist. What if Shenmue IV's main master is actually Niao Sun? As in the total opposite of Xiuying's mentorship? Where as Xiuying was all about clearing the mind and living a life of peace. Niao Sun is pure chaos and greed personified. What if Ryo ends up under her instruction at some point? Maybe that brings Xiuying back into the picture? Interesting thought. To see Ryo lose himself temporarily, perhaps? We've seen Ryo learn mostly defensive moves (with the odd exception here and there), but what if it's time Ryo starts learning some serious offensive moves? Frustrated by the fact that he still couldn't get the better of Lan Di, what if he crosses that path to becoming mentored by a member of the Chi You Men? We've never seen that before from a Shenmue master. It's mostly been about defense with all of them. So what if Ryo gets tempted by the dark path in SIV?

Or what if Ziming is aligned with Niao Sun and Ziming becomes your master in Shenmue IV? There obviously needs to be a master role in SIV as all of these games have had that...what if Ziming or Niao Sun are your future masters for IV as they recruit Ryo to fight Lan Di for their own benefits?

I just like the idea of "my enemy's enemy is my friend" and I feel like it's a possible route they could go. And it would be a fascinating way to introduce Ziming...to see someone who has lost his way and perhaps eventually earn redemption through Ryo in some measure but not without first leading Ryo down a dark path?

The real question is what role will Ziming play in all of this? Who does Ziming have allegiance too in this civil war? And how will the relationship between Ryo and Xiuying play out with Ziming? I'm really interested to see Ziming show up in IV. He's a wildcard at the moment and his story is one I'm anxious to dig into more considering the cycle of revenge that permeates this entire story.

But I really do believe the next game is going to be all about the Chi You Men....its time to start delving into that organization a little more. And that's mostly what I want to see from SIV...I want to know more about the inner workings of this group and why they are so dangerous.

SIII really was the getting to know Shenhua chapter to me. Yes, there are things about Shenhua still left to be discovered, but for the most part. SIII was about building a bond with Shenhua. SIV I think will be all about the Chi You Men in a big bad way.

I really want to know more about the inner workings of the Chi You Men and I think IV will start delving into that now that we're hot on their trails.
 
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I want to know when (and how) Gui Zhang will show up again. He said he'll catch up to Ryo once his leg has healed. I went back to listen to the S3 phone conversations with him on YouTube, as it's been a while. It seems there are two different Eric Kelso dubs on YT, and only in this one does he address his leg...


...is this line definitely in the final game? I thought I remembered him saying this, but none of the other videos I found had it.
 
orient said:
I want to know when (and how) Gui Zhang will show up again. He said he'll catch up to Ryo once his leg has healed. I went back to listen to the S3 phone conversations with him on YouTube, as it's been a while. It seems there are two different Eric Kelso dubs on YT, and only in this one does he address his leg...


...is this line definitely in the final game? I thought I remembered him saying this, but none of the other videos I found had it.
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No that line wasn't in the game it was written in for that video
 
spud1897 said:
No that line wasn't in the game it was written in for that video
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I thought that might be the case. They should've probably made that clear in the video description or something, considering that's a pretty huge line to just put in there :p

With that cleared up, that means there's really nothing in the phone convos that make it sound like Gui Zhang is joining Ryo anything soon, which is a shame. I wouldn't say that's evidence of anything, though. His return would be a huge reveal and would work best if it happened when we least expect it.
 
orient said:
I thought that might be the case. They should've probably made that clear in the video description or something, considering that's a pretty huge line to just put in there :p

With that cleared up, that means there's really nothing in the phone convos that make it sound like Gui Zhang is joining Ryo anything soon, which is a shame. I wouldn't say that's evidence of anything, though. His return would be a huge reveal and would work best if it happened when we least expect it.
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Yeasterday in the Shenmue Dojo Twich stream I said that Guizhang was going to rescue Ryo and Ren disguised as a Chiyoumen member in Shenmue 4. 😁
 
This is a awesome thread, thanks.

I really think Shenmue IV will be focus on the Chi You Men, in my opinion it's time to start answering questions about this organization.

In my opinion we will see all the leaders, we will learn more about them , we will see Ziming and know more about the character, i think Xiuying will return and we will see a conclusion to this part of the story, a conclusion about this is really important in my opinion.

i think It's time to learn deep things about the Chi You Men in Shenmue IV. For me Shenmue III is a calm and peaceful time in Ryo's Journey, a time to get to know Bailu Village and Shenhua more, a time to live with Shenhua and build a strong bond with her, Shenmue III for me is similar to Shenmue I in a lot of things and i like that, and i think Shenmue IV will have similar things to Shenmue II.

So i think Shenmue IV will have a lot of story progression, revelations, new master and new trainning, action and more, i can imagine Ryo, Ren and Shenhua entering in different parts of the Chi You Men to know more about everything, i think big fights will happen, i really have hope that this will happen.

I really want to see Shenhua's past and powers. In Shenmue II we can see her parents and a different place, where is that place? what happened to her parents? how many powers does Shenhua have? how are these powers? I really think it will be interesting to start answering these questions, Shenhua is one of my favorite characters, she is a really important character to the story, she is really mysterious, it's time to learn even more about her.

What is the truth between Iwao and Sunming Zhao? this really need to be shown in my opinion, would be really nice to see Ryo going to Mengcun where everything happened, maybe he will learn the truth there.

About the photos ShenSun wrote this in one of the threads, i really agree, i think Shenmue IV will be the Chiyou Men Story Arc, Shenmue IV have the potential to be a wonderful, intense and emotional game, and i think in Shenmue V will happen a lot of things and Ryo will finish the Chi You Men, he will save the world, he will forget about revenge, he will finally understand his father's words and Xiuying's words, i think Shenmue will have a beautiful and emotional ending, if this happen would be really nice in my opinion.

Everything I wrote + what other people wrote is what I think has to be answered, i really have hope that we will see this things, if i remember other thing i will edit my post.

Shenmue 4.png
Shenmue 5.png
 
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Such a cool thread! This is a hard question to answer, since I would like to see all the points mentioned by others here in 4, but I also don’t really have clear expectations for it...

I think the main thing I would want to see in the next game is some character development. Especially from Ryo. So far, he has only really had revenge at the forefront of everything he does. In Shenmue 3, they did show that he cares about Shenhua, but not enough to show that he cares more about his friends than getting revenge on Lan Di. In Shenmue 3, one of my favourite aspects about it was the relationship between Ryo and Shenhua. But, it lacked that dynamic with all the other characters. It was strange with Ren, since they had such a fun dynamic in 2. Although there were some good moments in 3 between them, it felt a little flat.

I’d like to see Ryo move on from only seeking revenge, to actually applying what Iwao said to him about keeping friends close. I’m sure it will happen, but I’d just like to see this development happen in a dynamic way; not like how it happened in 3, where the side characters suddenly become more important for the finale then they had been throughout the rest of the game. I can’t even remember some of there names. 😅

Same goes for Lan Di. So far, we’ve barely found out anything about him, besides the information related to the Chi Yu Men. I feel like there is a lot of potential for a character arc for Lan Di. Or where we find out more information about why he’s after the mirrors and the ‘treasure’. Also, it would be great if the next game goes into more of the inner workings of the Chi Yu, since the split between Niao Sun and Lan Di was sort of brushed over in my opinion.

In short, I’d love more development for the characters to explore some of the story elements that have not been explained so far.
 
In addition to the great things you all have been saying, I'll say I would like to have an interesting and powerful reason for Shenhua continuing the adventures, beyond the affection for Ryo.

We all know from promo materials that she has some kind of special powers, and some kind of link with her ancestors. I would like to know all that in full, and for it to be interesting.

That subject is much more interesting to me than the power struggles of the Chi You Men.
 
Aside from all of the above mentioned:

1. What is Chi You? Is it a literal monster? Is it really a mythicized version of a dead man? Is it a metaphor? Will Ryo get to punch Chi You in the face?
2. What are the goals of the Chi You Men in general? Considering the mythical Chi You was an enemy to the mythical emperor who founded China, I feel they're trying to regain their former power, using the fall of China's last emperor (which technically has occurred a lot in the past BUT this is the one that means it) as a power vacuum to gain total control.
3. What exactly will Ryo learn to defeat Lan Di? I'm curious to see what Fu stuff Ryo will use in the final battles. Manly gameplay-wise. Because it's going to be jarring if in the final fight against Lan Di, he just suddenly decides to let Ryo hit him instead of blocking all of his shots like in S3. Maybe some actual grapples??? Either way, I'm expecting some serious internal shit down the line. Meditation mini-game, anyone?
 
Down by Law said:
The big one for me is why did Iwao murder Sunming Zhao? One of the big mysteries from the very first cutscene.
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Or if he actually did murder him ;)
 
I know right? I doubt it was cold blooded murder - was it a fight that went too far? Were they joshing about and he shoulder bumped him, but he fell off a cliff? Did he spend too much money on duck racing and was taken out by a professional hit and Iwao was framed?

We must know !
 
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