Totally agree its a terrible game and for that reason i stopped playing it,
I'm a big fan of 1 and 2,have the rare prima guides framed,dreamcast and xbox versions aswell as the hd remasters.
It just doesn't have the soul of Shenmue,when i played the original it was like anything could happen, by disc 3 the game crescendos into a grand finale.
With this i was bored,shenhua cutscene where she waves to ryo every morning,i use to try and avoid her but just as i reach the path the same old cutscene would cue.
I was a kickstarter backer for ps4 and still have a sealed collectors edition,but truthfully if the couldve made it like 1 and 2 even in dreamcast graphics i wouldve enjoyed it more.
Where did it go wrong? At the start when they refused to use the original shenmue font.
Ryo looks very feminine and its a wierd camera when he runs,food for stamina is an annoyance aswell.
No longer wasting my life waiting on S4 news,Shenmue ends for me in the cave at the end of part 2.
Compare the covers of the first 2 with the third,does it look like its part of the same game or a spin off?
I seem to have played a different game. Despite some technical issues (for 2020) I fully enjoyed it and am hungry for part 4 (finished it yesterday). Looking forward to second playtrough.
It had some lengths in Niaowu, but when you interacted with the grand master again and he showed you the move to defeat Mr. Muscles with the epic move-sound, I was captivated again, which was very satisfying for me till the end. For me it really felt like Shenmue.
I hope they can secure basic funding for 4 quickly and do another kickstarter to increase the budget. Hopefully some tiers with more modest prices (for example submitting a painting - free artwork for them :-))
First of all, a very overdue thank you to everyone in the community, in particular to shenmuedojo, for having decisively contributed to the existence of a sequel to S2.
I finished S3 yesterday after a sequential playthrough of S1 and S2. I really loved playing S1 and S2, it is incredible how good those gaming experiences are, but after finishing S3 i’m filled with disapointment.
I’m hating that game reviewers frame S3 as something that would please the hardcore fans based on the slow pace and minigames - apparently thats is what Shenmue has been to those who never understood it.
I list below the reasons why I don’t think this is a true Shenmue experience:
Immersion - first two games draw us into the world with a mix of a realistic depiction of environments, level of detail and ambience music. In S3 the environments just feel unrealistic (could Niaowu be compared to anything in China?), the music is poorly selected and quite annoying sometimes (in particular in Bailu). The use of a very bright color palette eliminated the noir look of the previous games that added to the sense of mistery.
No cohesion with previous 2 games - ryo is becoming dumber and doesnt seem to have learned anything since yokosuka, quest items that still have no use (wonder if they will ever), no acknowledgment of Chai’s identity, last scroll offered by Xiuying disappears, retcon of the cave scene (ok that was actually positive)
Very poor script - no climatic scenes, poor dialogue, basically no intrigue. Learn expensive move from unassuming ma to defeat unnamed random thug x2. Can you even believe that if not for the followers of the lore, the girl in red dress would not even be introduced in the game?!
No story development - this is totally unnaceptable and budget can’t be an excuse. What was our reward as fans and as backers who have waited 18 years to get to know a bit more of the plot? How is it possible that there is no dialogue with Lan Di, that there are no explanations from Yuan concerning the content of the letter?
I can’t forgive YS for having relied on backers to produce a game that is not focused on hardcore fans. I think YS lost the plot when he tried to create a game that would please to newer generations of gamers, and i think all that is left is disappointment from us, and indiference from the remaining gaming community.
This is very harsh but the truth is the same way we remained a strong community in defending and praising Shenmue games over 20 years, also gives us the right to openly state our disappointment. I registered here because you are the only guys that could understand this.
I think that YS capability of regaining trust of shenmue hardcore fans will be critical to release S4, something i think it is highly unlikely.
Niaowu is actually inspired in an ancient Chinese Town called Fenghuang. They are pratically identical.
You can check out this video from my youtube channel that I posted during the development of Shenmue 3; it shows the similarities between both towns.
So having finished off Shenmue 3 I wanted to give some thoughts about the game and also moving forward, not just game wise but from a community perspective. Before reading my thoughts on the game I wanted to leave this here so if you don't read the review please read this!
Community and moving forward
Now this is something I hold personal but wanted to share. Overall this community is the best around, I’ve been lucky enough to meet people that I’d consider friends for life. However this experience from Kickstarter to release (yes I know there’s been some quite rightly gripes, communication issues, marketing and the like) has shown me a side of the community I didn’t like. Just to be clear I’m not tarring everyone with the same brush as 90% are amazing it’s the vocal minority I’m talking to.
Since release I’ve seen comments such as Yu Suzuki doesn’t deserve to make another game, Shenmue 3 sucks, it’s not what I was promised, I wanted this, I wanted that. I’m sorry but when did we become so entitled? We shouldn’t even be playing this game, it was a dead pipe dream but we made this happen so to see a vocal minority jeopardise the future of the series on social media is beyond comprehension. The “outrage” culture has wormed its way in and this needs to stop if we want a Shenmue 4. I’m not saying people can’t be critical, I have been below but I’m saying that this game, Yu Suzuki’s vision, is bigger than any one community member who has a gripe about something trivial. One valid criticism I’ve seen is they’ve focussed too much on mini-games/padding out and not enough on the story. Fair enough, but then in the same breath this has then been met with oh but the story sucked anyway so why bother expanding it. This kind of comment/person is the kind that quite frankly needs a reality check. You can’t have things your own way all the time. This game was made in the vision of its creator and if we start dictating how that should look then this is all over. That said I’m more than aware that without the vast majority of us we would not be playing Shenmue 3 and I would not be writing this.
Some need to realise that all they’re doing is harming the future of the series by going off on these “outraged” rants, overreactions to everything and shoving that down everyone’s throats. You do not represent the whole of this community (nor do I either) but get off your high horse and stop acting like you do!
As for Shenmue 4 this is what I feel needs to happen short term:
We get out there in our masses on social medial and let the world know how good the game is, focus on the positive aspects.
Stop this negative shite on social media. All that is doing is putting off potential new players, of which many have picked up 1 and 2 & are showing an interest in Shenmue 3. This will kill the franchise.
Support Yu Suzuki and YSNET in getting a 4th game. Of course discuss and suggest ideas but be respectful of the creator of this wonderful franchise.
We need to unite, we don’t know what final sales will be and this battle for Shenmue as a whole is far from over. I promise you that as long as I’m around (and many others here share the sentiment) I will never give up on Shenmue 4 unless Yu throws in the towel, which we know he’s not. He wants to make a 4th game.
Now the review, the game was played on Hard and I've put things in spoiler boxes for ease.
Both settings were completely stunning. Bailu was everything I wanted and Niaowu reminded me of Hong Kong. The colours in Bailu are something that doesn’t often occur in games these days. Yes I found some pop-in of NPC’s, maybe not as many NPC’s in Niaowu as I’d like but overall these were great.
Overall fantastic though I noticed some off placement of tracks and also some sections with none at all. Anyone moaning about not enough new music needs to get a reality check. Recording multiple arrangements costs a fortune. I was in a band for years and to record 5 instruments to a decent standard was easily upwards of £1000 for a 4 track EP. So imagine needing literally hundreds of tracks and multiple instrument arrangements. The cost would spiral very quickly.
This seems to be an issue for some and I do get where people are coming from. I’d have liked to have found out more about Iwao, the mirrors etc. However the ending piece was intense (maybe slightly rushed) but it left so many open questions, Lan Di is being played, the politics in the Chi Yu Men, the mystery of Shenhua, the mirrors etc. Also it looks like they’re going to Baisha (just my thought) in the ending credits. Anyway my point being every story has a lull where it doesn’t move on much. The focus of this game was the beginning of Ryo’s improving ability, his study of Bajiquan, the need to train, the need to focus. Also what happens now the mirrors are in the hands of the Chi Yu Men? It’s also established systems that will allow for Shenmue 4 to match Shenmue 2 in story and content IMO.
Once I got used to the dynamics I really enjoyed the fighting. The multiman battles are very good. I do feel it lacks a little impact sometimes and some of the detection is a little off but this can be refined. I know throws were an issue (see latest IGN video with Yu Suzuki) but if they come back in and they tighten the system then this will be great. QTE’s were tough but overall enjoyable, maybe a little hard in parts
Loved all the jobs, I didn’t do much fishing this time around but will next play. Forklifting was good fun and wood chopping was addictive. I found myself having little routines to ensure I had money, was trained to a high enough level. Training games were fine, one-inch punch the favourite. I do get the criticism around the need for money in the game and it was a repeat of some gameplay loops from Shenmue 2, however I didn’t find this an issue as I always made sure I had funds and enjoyed the games. Arcade games were good fun too.
I touched on this earlier but apart from Ryo and Shenhua there wasn’t as much as maybe I’d have wanted. However I see the logic behind this, Ren comes into the game. We know him and his character so not much is needed yet. I sense more will come. The temple maiden and grandmasters etc seem to be one and done characters and while I’d like to have known more about their motivations I can see why this wasn’t expanded upon. We didn’t get a Xiuing type set-up because they’re not pivotal to the final plot, I know we got more of this in Shenmue 1 and 2 (Joy, Wong etc) but I sense they had to sacrifice this a little. She will come back and her character arc has been frozen but with the background of previous development in Shenmue 2.
Overall I was happy to wonder around and not use the fast travel options. However I do think these should be included throughout the whole game. They’re around in Bailu but not Niaowu which seemed off. Dialogue skip is something that I think we would all appreciate.
Also one personal issue was move scrolls. There needs to be a system that ticks off in shops when you already own a scroll to stop us buying duplicates. It didn’t ruin the experience but is a minor annoyance.
I’d give the game an 8/10 I enjoyed it and the ending has left me with more questions that I want answered in Shenmue 4 if it happens. Now Shenmue 4, well 3 IMO has served a purpose that you can create this sort of game for the limited budget ($12 million if IGN Japan are correct). The core systems are there, the story is set-up, the team have experience with Unreal now. Providing Shenmue 4 gets green-lit and they direct the story into answering these questions (I feel Yu should have some support with this maybe) then I reckon we will get a game on par or better then Shenmue 2. I’d class Shenmue 3 on a par with Shenmue 1 but not as good overall as Shenmue 2. Shenmue 4 could easily define the series if done well and I have confidence that it will be
I loved it till that last scene. They needed to plain come out and state that they need another year, and more money. This game has been awaited by the actual fans for 20 years. I know I'd pay a bit more and be OK with that year. Anyhow, as is, I agree with you on 8/10. It is fun to play, it does have a story. It is Shenmue 3 as it would have been in 2003 or later a bit. I doubt it strongly it would have been so much better then. Maybe the fighting engine might have stayed in place, but this new one was fun by the end of it. Some refused to even give it a chance. I hope the work is in progress for Shenmue 4 right now. It can generally look exactly like the 3rd, it'd be just fine.
I seem to have played a different game. Despite some technical issues (for 2020) I fully enjoyed it and am hungry for part 4 (finished it yesterday). Looking forward to second playtrough.
It had some lengths in Niaowu, but when you interacted with the grand master again and he showed you the move to defeat Mr. Muscles with the epic move-sound, I was captivated again, which was very satisfying for me till the end. For me it really felt like Shenmue.
I hope they can secure basic funding for 4 quickly and do another kickstarter to increase the budget. Hopefully some tiers with more modest prices (for example submitting a painting - free artwork for them :-))
They need to hammer out an exclusive deal with Sony/Epic. They need a petition pages for both with signatures proving there's interest in both platforms. Hints were dropped that Suzuki already has something like that going. Kickstarter gave so much negativity it was crazy. They need proof of preorders for the publishers instead I think. It will be a hard few years till there's news about it.
Did anyones general impressions shift during or after their first playthrough, I imagine we were just overlooking things/rose tinted glasses cause we were actually playing Shenmue III the first time
I think the fighting became harder to snap off like I learned the first time. I also do hate some of the art direction they went with for some characters. Still, it's made so that you can enjoy it, not like in S1. Wait a full game day to progress. The game is very rough and rushed that's for sure. I kept hoping some stuff from the demo would be fixed in the full game. It wasn't. I hope S4 has a real funding, and a larger team.
Did anyone's general impressions shift during or after their first playthrough, I imagine we were just overlooking things/rose-tinted glasses cause we were actually playing Shenmue III the first time
Before I answer this question, I want to address this "Shenmue III is disliked because of our fondness for the first two games" statement. Now keep in mind that I am only speaking for myself and not any other Shenmue III critic. As someone who kept up with all the information prior to Shenmue III's release, I was one of its most ardent defenders. All you need to do is to look at my past posts to see this.
I went into Shenmue III with cautious optimism based on the facts presented. Personally, I have never been as forgiving with a game like I was with Shenmue III. I gave Shenmue III as much goodwill as I could muster because I love this franchise. However, while the game had its bright points, I honestly just did not find it compelling.
I mean no disrespect when I say this, but you make it sound like all those who are critical of Shenmue III are just blinded by nostalgia. Also, what's wrong with holding Shenmue III to the standards of the first two games? Yu Suzuki set the bar extremely high for fans; that's why I can understand why some of those fans are extremely disappointed. Especially considering some of them threw thousands of dollars at Shenmue III because of its reputation.
I know Suzuki couldn't make a AAA game, but keep in mind that technology has caught up with and surpassed what the original games did. Also, there's the fact that part of the reason why the original games were expensive was that everything had to be made from scratch. In other words, you can do more with less nowadays.
Also, this needs to be said, just because I criticize Shenmue III does not mean I am not grateful for its existence. You can be critical of something and still be grateful.
Finally, to address your point, I have played the game again. While there are some things I like more now, it still hasn't changed my opinion much.
I wouldn't normally quote myself but i felt it better than retyping a bunch of the same stuff from the back end of last year.
My thoughts after playing Shenmue III for the 3rd time, 1st on PC (no NG+) just as it would have been for my 1st time.
General Thoughts
Some will see my rant about entitlement etc above. Now I do stand by the vast majority of what I said above but some bits I feel need toning down/clarifying a bit. My criticisms lie in the people, who because they didn't get what they wanted (for whatever reason), are now actively seeking to tear down the entire franchise. It's these entitled, outrage culture idiots I'm referring to. The same goes for people saying 'because I don't like it no one else will'. What I have seen is a healthy respect for criticisms and constructive discussion over improvement across many formats. But I have also seen a select number across communities consistently post 'Shenmue III sucks'. If that's someone's opinion, whether they expand on it or not, that's cool. What isn't cool is seeing people comment the above on topics/discussions that aren't relevant to Shenmue III and when called out on it they get all upset or when you try to discuss constructively they get offensive. It's a small group of individuals and it irks me that this persists. We know your opinion, great, but why at every turn do you shout it from the roof tops on even unrelated items??
For Shenmue 4 wemust be vocal on social media, tweetathons etc. If something is going on behind the scenes this kind of support may well tip the balance into a publisher/investor going for it.
Technical stuff
On PC I noticed less pop-in, better stability and a generally better experience. I should have played on PC first I think. I played on a PS4 Pro first two times and it was OK but PC was much better for me.
One odd thing I noticed is that if I was playing via my headphones and they disconnected it would crash the game.... no idea why
Story
Not much to add really. I get the learning the same move twice argument. But I can also see why they did it in the context of budget. Now that we know the scene with Sun wasn't originally planned I can see why they used some of the same captures for it. I'd like to know how late in the day this came in and the impact it had on the original plans. That said it is marginally a different move. One requires a dodge then the body check, the other a almost block then the check, which fits in with Akria in VF5. But I get the gripe here, could they have used something different? Quite probably.
QOL
The menu needs to be simplified for me and the fighting needs a proper tutorial. I was messing about with the system and digging out some nice combos which, with a little explanation, would have improved some people's experience. That and throws.
Budget
We now know this to be $20 million, more than I quoted back in my original post. Looking at the credits there was quite a number of people invovled, including 7-8 Mo-cap guys? That would be fairly expensive I would think. Take that, Kickstarter Fee's, two dubs, marketing etc and money is eaten quickly. However damn the translation/localisation was poor in parts, like seriously poor.
Any way that's it from me. I'll probably give all 3 games a rest for a while now and come back to playing them later in the year/next year. However the Shenmue theme always hits the feels for me and will do so until I'm an old man!
Man oh man, that first time playing I've found a way to slide my thumb on the buttons. It made those harder moves doable at will. Second time I can't seem to do it as easily. In the end he needed SEGA to give him his own VF engine. No helping it. I kept wishing it would be there.
Yes, the English version was almost an afterthought. Almost like in S1 and 2, but still worse. Why couldn't he just say he needs time...
The story there's as much of as in S1. Mainly there it's told by master Chen on the docks. Not a huge difference. I just hate the ending. Yes the reuse of the story from part one was plain dumb. It just felt that way.
It wasn't up to Suzuki. It was DS's call at that point whether or not to allow YSNet more time on development. Decisions about release timings generally involve money. Projects can't just keep delaying indefinitely if it continues to cost more, and there's not enough incentive in terms of projected return on investment. DS made a business decision. They likely didn't see the profitability in delaying the project any further, and injecting further funds into development.
It wasn't up to Suzuki. It was DS's call at that point whether or not to allow YSNet more time on development. Decisions about release timings generally involve money. Projects can't just keep delaying indefinitely if it continues to cost more, and there's not enough incentive in terms of projected return on investment. DS made a business decision. They likely didn't see the profitability in delaying the project any further, and injecting further funds into development.
It is not a mystery; it was only a matter of bad choices made along the way; the darts mini game could have been easily made; also Niaowu didn't need two arcade buildings just like all of the time and effort they wasted macking objects to trade by tokens. The DLC's are also a good example of wasted effort that could have been put into much better use in the main story or in the development of the side characters.
I just really hope that if Shenmue 4 comes out that they put their act together and realize once and for all that what is really important is the story, the characters and the gameplay.
In my opinion even if a game has the best side activities; but if it lacks in the story and its characters then it is never going to be a great game.
I Love Shenmue 3 and consider it a good game and even with its budget it could have turned out to be great or even come close to a masterpiece like Shenmue 2 if they had made better choices along the way.
Quality is always better then quantity.
Agree I wish there were Big or Small and Darts, especially Neo Darts I find underrated. Although, if I had to run all the way to the damn end of the map at the docks for the arcade I'd have been annoyed.
Agree I wish there were Big or Small and Darts, especially Neo Darts I find underrated. Although, if I had to run all the way to the damn end of the map at the docks for the arcade I'd have been annoyed.
Lol
3 arcades: "Too many arcades. We only needed the one"
1 arcade: "Seriously? You mean I have to run ALL the way to the other side of the city to play arcade games?"
Niaowu = Chinese Las Vegas.
Gambling and Arcade Building next to Hotel Niaowu.
Big Merry Cruise with Gambling and Arcade machines.
Rose Garden with Gambling.
Gambling in the streets of Niaowu.
Arcade Building in the center of Niaowu and Gambling in the Golden Goose building.
I wished they had put some Lucky Hit stands in the balcony of Ryo's room.
Lol
3 arcades: "Too many arcades. We only needed the one"
1 arcade: "Seriously? You mean I have to run ALL the way to the other side of the city to play arcade games?"
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