Hard to read the kanji on an American TV for the original Japanese Dreamcast Shenmue 1 version

[Jerrid'sRamenShop]

Hello everyone, it has been a while since I have last posted here. ^^! I hope everyone is doing well.

I was very excited to finally be able to buy the Japanese version of Shenmue. I did so with the sole purpose of learning Japanese, even better than I had with the original US version. The problem quickly surfaced though, that I can not read the kanji hardly at all in both subtitles and the journal as I recall. It seems that the kanji are too blurry on my screen. Anything that has more than a few strokes become painfully, if not completely unreadable.

I am not sure if it is because I have an American TV or maybe just not that great of a TV and some how that is the issue. The TV was around the same time the Dreamcast and the original Shenmue came out and was an ok one back then, so I can not believe that to be the sole problem. Is the screen filtered in such a way that just makes Japanese text unreadable on American ones? The English text from the English version can be seen just fine on the same TV. The kana from the Japanese version can be seen ok as well or at least better than the kanji.

PS. I just tried to play the game again on the same TV to report the issue better here and it is no longer functioning, the TV that is. So I am going to have to buy a new TV anyway for my games. So do I need to buy a TV with a specific function or from a particular location/region? I only have a handful of Japanese ones, so it will mostly be for American games, but also for those handful of Japanese as well. Thank you.

 

[Jerrid'sRamenShop]

Or is it because I am using an American Dreamcast that is the problem? Again I can get the Japanese game to work using another cd, but that does not mean the American Dreamcast was intended to project kanji so well. I find that hard to believe, but I got to find out something. Surely someone has ran into that problem or knows of the issue.

 

[Rakim]

Are you playing on a CRT or something?

It could be the console though cuz I don't think the Dreamcast was region free. So that could be the problem.
There are a lot of rather simple ways to get around the region lock, though.

 

[Rydeen]

There's no difference in video output from the Dreamcast between JP and NA regions (both NTSC) unless you're trying to do something crazy like use a Japanese RF cable on a NA console--where the carrier frequencies in the modulation scheme would change due to the difference in channel frequencies between Japanese and NA TVs. I doubt that's actually the issue, though.

The Japanese fonts in the first two games on the Dreamcast are some of the more readable fonts I've ever seen (even moreso than in Shenmue III). Just in general, if you are using an RF cable with your Dreamcast, the picture quality is going to be very poor. If you're getting a new TV set, it would end up looking even worse after being digitized. LCD panels tend to have limited support for legacy analog formats. If you're lucky, it might have composite (yellow/red/white cables that came with every console), or VGA input (requires a VGA box for the Dreamcast). If not, you'd need a converter to convert those signals to HDMI, and composite certainly won't look very good on an LCD, no matter what (although it would be an improvement over RF on anything).

That's a lot of jargon, I know, but I think the main question is: What cable are you trying to use from your Dreamcast to your TV?

 

[Jerrid'sRamenShop]

I am using the cables that came with the Dreamcast, the yellow/red/white ones or I believe they are called... RCA or composite? Are you saying I just need a newer TV that has the options/holes in the back for the yellow/red/white and everything should be fine? The TV I had been using, before it stopped working at least, had that option and that was all I was using anyway, as I had no choice with what cables came with my Dreamcast. If the problem is simply being sure to buy a new tv with those yellow/red/white options than there is no problem.

But I am still curious why it would not work on my older one with the same options... RCA TruFlat it was called... maybe just past it's prime? I'd be a little afraid to just buy any newer tv, even with those composite options "if" that is not the underlying issue of not being able to see the kanji.

 

[Rydeen]

No, I couldn't say definitively what the cause of the problem would be. Maybe with a picture of the game running on your old TV, but it sounds like that's not possible now. If you're using a method of bootloader to run the JP version on an NA console, there's nothing fundamentally different about the video output from the console, though. Short of some strange bug I've never heard of with a particular bootloader, the video output is going to be the same whether you're playing the NA version or the JP version of the game. I assumed you were probably going to say you were using an RF cable, honestly.

"Composite" is the video signal, and "RCA" (also sometimes called "phono") is the physical connector type. They both generally refer to the same thing, though. Composite output from the Dreamcast is fairly decent on a CRT television, compared to a number of earlier consoles. Composite, in general, has issues of "color bleed" where a lot of edges aren't very clearly defined, and smear a bit. For some, it might not be as detectable on 3D objects as it is on 2D images and objects. This will only look worse on a modern TV, though, even if you find one that supports composite video.

The Dreamcast has the following options for video output (from worst to best picture):

RF - Just don't do it.
Composite - What you're probably used to, and maybe the least difficult mating option to find on a new TV.
S-video - Without getting into the technical details, this gives much better edge definition than composite, but is nearly impossible to find on a new TV.
RGB - This, and the previous two, are really about how the sync signal is packaged with the color intensity/brightness signals. This one separates sync completely, and has the best edge definition because of it. You'd need some converters to use it with a modern US TV, though.
VGA - This is practically RGB, except the sync signal is split into horizontal and vertical sync (I think there might also be some timing differences, but that's not important EDIT: oh, yeah, it's also 31kHz as opposed to 15kHz, so it allows for higher resolution). If you have a PC monitor of almost any vintage, this is a no-brainer. It just requires a special type of cable, which there are a number of different options for. Pretty hit-or-miss for new TVs that support it, but apparently there are some basic converters to help:

VGA to HDMI Adapter/Converter with Audio (Old PC to New TV/Monitor with HDMI), Aigrous Male VGA to HDMI Video Adapter for TV, Computer, Projector with Audio 3.5mm Audio Cable Included - Newegg.com

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However, not every Dreamcast game supports this video mode (but most do).

There are some straight HDMI cable options for the Dreamcast, these days, but I haven't used any of them. Probably the best of this type of solution would be the Akura from Beharbros. It's a little expensive ($75), but I have their Toro box for VGA and split-sync SCART, and it works wonderfully in my setup.

tl;dr: Getting a Dreamcast going on a modern TV is not very straightforward. You might be better off just trying to find a Sony Trinitron CRT, and getting an s-video cable for the Dreamcast.

 

[orient]

Could you post some images of the issue and of the front/back of your TV? Then it'll be easier to recommend a solution.

As Rydeen suggested, if you're using an old CRT TV and it has an S-video input, I'd recommend jumping on eBay and grabbing an S-video cable for Dreamcast. If you're using a flat screen HD TV, things get more complicated.

 

[Jerrid'sRamenShop]

I got my even older TV from 1999 to work now thankfully. ^^! However this one the kanji are not much clearer, but I can not do a side by side comparison and no way for me to post a pic here anyway. I may scour the internet and see if I can find pictures or videos of the game with the same issues I am having though.

All I can say in the meantime is that the kanjis that have more than a few strokes or that are so compounded together become impossible to read or even really guess at. I think another issue is that the journal represents a person's personal hand writing and so it is not as clear as say printed face type. I can read the subtitles ok (not all the time) and the main menu good enough as well, it is just the journal that is the issue or so far that I have come across. Speaking of the subtitles, they are at the very edge of the screen to the bottom, some kana and kanji actually having the bottom tip chopped off. When I look at YouTube videos it is up an inch or two from the bottom.

To try and better describe my problem, for instance I can make out (by stretching my imagination) that "ka" is represented on the screen as that last stroke seems much longer than I usually see it or would ever write it, unless I am just doing it wrong. However "ga" I was not sure what it was because it was so blurry. I just took into consideration that I know "ka" can be "ga" and should have two small dashes or the dakuten at the top which on my screen just seemed like a smudge mark. Which in retrospect might be just how some people do it by hooking since it is personal preference. I also had to fiddle with the options and change mostly kana to having mostly kanji. ^^! But that still did not do anything for me and made reading it even worse as again, I can mostly make out the kana, but not the kanji.

The kanji for male or 男 is clearly visible on my screen. I mean I wish it was even crisper, but I understand what kanji it is. It is not so smashed together not to be. However the kanji for something like 孟 becomes a bit more painful to read and anything with a dozen or so strokes or multiple kanji jumbled to make one is impossible to read. By recognizing the bottom part of 皿 I know there are five strokes to it , but the screen barely registers it, it looks more like four. I am also having trouble reading the calendar inside his home right above the phone next to the entry way. But that may be done on purpose as not everything has to have fine detail in the game.

The current TV working now is also an RCA and on the back is the option for the cable/antenna and the yellow/red/white ones. Then there are two other holes with an "S" and "R", which I did not even notice those before back there. o0 As stated before I am using the yellow/red/white cables from the Dreamcast itself.

I appreciate the help everyone. I will post more when I get more info or screen shots or manage to figure out how to post pics. Needless to say I can clearly see videos on YouTube, that claim to be using the Japanese version of Shenmue on the Dreamcast (Japanese Dreamcast? Japanese TV?) is much clearer than what is shown on my TV. I have no doubt since my TV is so old that it may be an underlining issue as well, plus it was sort of a cheap TV even back then. But if what is being said that even a newer TV, even with the option to use the yellow/red/white will be even worse... that does not give me much hope...

 

[Jerrid'sRamenShop]

Alright I tried to use the web cam off my laptop to take these. They are not perfect with how I had to hold the camera, but to be honest they are pretty close to what I see on my screen as far as the kanji are concerned, with the only difference of the TV being slightly, a smidge if you will, better. So as these are hard to read, so too is my TV. I tried to take a picture of the in between/loading screens, but that was a disaster so these will have to do. Not sure what you can make out of this, but hopefully it helps. Obviously ignore any kind of lines or dark bars scrolling through the picture, as they do not show up on my TV, but appear when I try to take a photo. I suppose I should of tried to take a picture of the subtitles now that I think about it, but hopefully this will do.

 

[Rydeen]

Not too sure what to say. That's pretty much how it should look. The edges of the text are a bit less defined because it's composite, and 480i, but there's no real issue there.

I took some photos of it running on my TV in VGA mode, and upsampled with a Framemeister, for comparison's sake.

Spoiler: I went Kimono hunting while I was at it.

Obviously the picture is more clear with VGA, but I would still say the pictures you posted are perfectly readable, and about what I would expect from composite.

If there's an s-video input on the TV, then I'd recommend getting an s-video cable for your Dreamcast. It will improve the quality of the video substantially, if you get one that isn't too cheaply made.

EDIT: Something else you could actually try is if the TV has a sharpness setting, increase it a bit to see if the edges of the text become more clear. If you increase it too much, you'll start to get halos around the edges, which probably won't help, but somewhere in between could help to make it a little more clear.

 

[Jerrid'sRamenShop]

I can see yours decently, I still can not see mine even when I am staring at the actual screen itself. I had messed with the menu settings before, but not in depth. I just tried it in hopes that would be an easy fix, but sadly it does not. Maybe a smidgen more, but that is it. If the English version was as hard to read as the Japanese version, I do not know how anyone would of been abled to play it, in terms of following along with the story anyway. I looked for my American version just to see if maybe it was the TV that has just gotten worse over time, but I am not sure where that copy is now.

I will continue with the tweaking of the TV, but I do not think that is going to get any better. I was really hoping a new TV would be the simple (if not the more expensive) option, but that is a bummer if it would be even worse. I just assumed I had less pixels or color bleeding, old age, etc. on the TV I currently have. Thanks again for all the help. I will take any more suggestions you and others may have. It's just really a bummer I waited so long to find an actual Japanese Shenmue copy and the thing is practically unviewable to me.

Edit: On your screen as I said I can make out just about everything. The only thing I can not read on those two pages at least, is the second kanji on the left page. I am not sure if that part of the kanji is 山 or if that is a thin square or rectangle standing with a tall line going down the middle. Some how I assume it may also be 山, but it is really the only thing that is not clear to me and with trial and error due to I can read the rest of that kanji, should be able to make sense of it in a dictionary.

However when I look at my own picture, I have more questions than answers... ^^! For me it is not about if I can read the kanji meanings, but if I can legitimately look them up in a dictionary. If I do not see the strokes clearly and only guess, that is going to be a disaster and waste of time I am afraid. Like I can only make out distinctly four or five kanji in my picture. The rest are completely unthinkable to me to even start to research them. Like someone sneezed across the pages...

 

[Rydeen]

I can see yours decently, I still can not see mine even when I am staring at the actual screen itself. I had messed with the menu settings before, but not in depth. I just tried it in hopes that would be an easy fix, but sadly it does not. Maybe a smidgen more, but that is it. If the English version was as hard to read as the Japanese version, I do not know how anyone would of been abled to play it, in terms of following along with the story anyway. I looked for my American version just to see if maybe it was the TV that has just gotten worse over time, but I am not sure where that copy is now.

I will continue with the tweaking of the TV, but I do not think that is going to get any better. I was really hoping a new TV would be the simple (if not the more expensive) option, but that is a bummer if it would be even worse. I just assumed I had less pixels or color bleeding, old age, etc. on the TV I currently have. Thanks again for all the help. I will take any more suggestions you and others may have. It's just really a bummer I waited so long to find an actual Japanese Shenmue copy and the thing is practically unviewable to me.

Edit: On your screen as I said I can make out just about everything. The only thing I can not read on those two pages at least, is the second kanji on the left page. I am not sure if that part of the kanji is 山 or if that is a thin square or rectangle standing with a tall line going down the middle. Some how I assume it may also be 山, but it is really the only thing that is not clear to me and with trial and error due to I can read the rest of that kanji, should be able to make sense of it in a dictionary.

However when I look at my own picture, I have more questions than answers... ^^! For me it is not about if I can read the kanji meanings, but if I can legitimately look them up in a dictionary. If I do not see the strokes clearly and only guess, that is going to be a disaster and waste of time I am afraid. Like I can only make out distinctly four or five kanji in my picture. The rest are completely unthinkable to me to even start to research them. Like someone sneezed across the pages...

It seems like your TV has an S-video input, if there's a hole labeled "S" on it. Grab some of these, it will make a dramatic difference:

Dreamcast® AV & S-Video Cable

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In terms of reading, I'm assuming you're talking about the 'yama-hen' in 嶋 - shima/jima. In general when reading Japanese, people don't focus on the different building block elements, and just recognize it as a 'blob' (I don't really know how else to describe it). The reason I say your TV looks perfectly readable is because I'm not looking to read every stroke. I find most of the text in those two pages on your screen to be pretty clear. The first two lines I couldn't make out the individual strokes on, though. I know that it's "龍の模様の鏡が奪われた！" ('ryu no moyou no kagami ga ubawareta') because I can still make out the shapes of 'moyou,' 'kagami,' and 'uba-.' I only know from the context of the rest of the sentence that the first character is 'ryu,' though. If I didn't have that context I would have to stare at it for a long time, and I still might not recognize it with how it looks in the photo.

Point being, though: I'm not sure how useful that tactic of trying to look everything up while playing will be. Most video game text isn't really conducive to that. I would probably recommend something online, like MueCas, maybe, where you can just copy and paste things.


Edit: Oh, I actually forgot that Shenmue on the Dreamcast does have a pretty good mode for learning Japanese. In the options there's a toggle for 'kid mode,' which puts yomigana (the readings for the characters) with the kanji. I'm pretty sure it's the first option in the start screen options.

 

[Jerrid'sRamenShop]

It seems like your TV has an S-video input, if there's a hole labeled "S" on it. Grab some of these, it will make a dramatic difference:

What does the "R" hole do?

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Edit: Oh, I actually forgot that Shenmue on the Dreamcast does have a pretty good mode for learning Japanese. In the options there's a toggle for 'kid mode,' which puts yomigana (the readings for the characters) with the kanji. I'm pretty sure it's the first option in the start screen options.

Furigana? I am interested in being able to read Japanese by the kanji, rather than the kana. I think the original option for the Japanese version of Shenmue is the heavy use of kana and the lighter use of kanji. Unless what you are talking about uses the same kanji as I shown in the picture (heavy use) and then above it it just has the kana or something like news article apps have.

 

[Jerrid'sRamenShop]

I got a newer TV used and several years old, but much better than I had in terms of making out the writing in Shenmue, but it was free so I can not complain. I did not buy any other cables yet however and it did not really look any better than before. I tried to tinker with the picture settings, but again it just looks illegible. I still can not imagine the Japanese trying to read that and just seeing blobs and trying to read the whole journal like that. And I do not see the Japanese upgrading their cables just to read it either, it should be perfectly readable with the original cables for the common market.

It would be like having Final Fantasy 7 in English, but unreadable. It just would not make any sense. Each and every letter is printed to be read properly, no guessing from context or anything else. Although I believe as I said before I think the problem is the words in the journal are hand written instead of typed to give it a more authentic feel. And his hand writing may be a bit rough around the edges or the few American TVs that I have simply wont project it any better than that. Or maybe I have a faulty cable, but it shows everything else just fine.

And with this TV I have a few HDMI options and I was hoping it would work in reverse, as in instead of PC to TV, it would be my TV to PC and see how it looks on my laptop screen, but it does not seem to work that way. My laptop screen apparently is better than the TV screen, at least for finer details. The TV screen is like five times bigger though. ^^! I may look into other options in the mean time.

 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Mhm, Laptops only output, can't input.

Your best option is to just get the better cables; full-stop. Find either S-Video (if your TV does it) or VGA on eBay and go for it.

If your TV has a, "PC," setting, it will do straight to VGA; I know it's tricky to find one nowadays, but I was able to find a few dozen at different retailers, here in Toronto (after I stupidly broke my already-good TV).

 

[Jerrid'sRamenShop]

I was able to find my American Shenmue and using the same TV (a newer used one) compared both the Japanese and the American versions. Although even the English is not as "crisp" as I would like it, you can see all the horizontal lines on the pages all the way across the journal. Why would the same game, but two different regional versions, using the same base equipment, the same TV and the same settings on the device have two distinctly different looks of the pages for the journal? And by distinctly I mean the horizontal lines are more pronounced on the American version.

I think it also comes down to, as I touched on previously, English is readable and so too is the kana, which are basically the alphabets in their own respective countries. But since the kanji are so intricate and can be so compounded together, it is simply impossible to read for me on my current set up. Quite interesting though, when I took a picture of this other TV with Shenmue playing, it actually made the kanji slightly more crisp somehow. I am not talking about the light bands like on the previous picture I showed, I understand that to be just a really old TV. I am talking about the kanji actually looked a little cleaner and I would think that would not be possible. The phone I have and thus the camera on it is cheap (free actually) and I would assume anything I can see with the naked eye would be the same, if not worse on the camera. But I could actually make out some distinctions. Nothing great mind you and not all of them just some. And yes the idea of taking pictures of my journal to study later did cross my mind and I would if it was more widespread positive I would. ^^!

At this point I think I will just opt for another cable, but it will have to be cheap. I will tell myself it is for the betterment of all my games, even though I am really only lying to myself because I am only really getting it to read the kanji from one game. ^^! I do have other Japanese games to try too though and I want to see how they look as well before doing that. I can not believe all Japanese would of bought a better cable, unless their Dreamcasts already came with such a cable, just to be able to read and thus play their games, unless their TV are just fundamentally different where it will project something a certain way, meaning better for their games.

On a further note, if Shenmue 1 and 2 on Steam was more modder friendly, like Half Life 1 and 2 were, I would of just bought that. But as it is, I really do not want to buy something I already have like the fourth or fifth time, all things considered and not really gaining anything. But if we had a bunch of mods I'd be like white on rice or Nozomi on Ryu! ^^!