How are you enjoying Shenmue 3 (No spoilers please)

I can't help feeling that after 18 years and all the hype, that we really should be more pissed by the lack of plot, the slow pacing, the padding and the bait and switch of the floating sword and mystical elements hinted at the end of Shenmue 2.

I don't really understand what Yu Suzuki meant whenever he has said he couldn't rush through the story any quicker than he has with Shenmue 3. I mean, what is he on about? Nothing of importance has happened within 95% of the game so far. You learn a bit about Iwao training in Bailu and a bit of history on the mirrors, both of which is great, but you spend forrrreeeever looking for thugs that are after stonemasons - that I could frankly not give a fuck about - and looking for Shenhua's father - who, again, sorry Shenhua, but I really couldn't give a fuck about. I mean, they even drag it out across two different areas. Compare it with the plot and pacing of the second game.

I actually, reluctantly, somewhat agree with some of Yu Suzuki's critics who say they think he would drag on the series forever if he could and probably doesn't even know how to resolve most of the plot points he has been building up over the course of the last few decades.
I disagree. The whole point of Bailu is experiencing the calm, simple lifestyle of those who live in a village hidden away from civilisation. Guilin hinted at this in II, and III delivered on it. Sure, you could skip looking for thugs, but then you'd basically be skipping the vast majority of what Bailu has to offer. If you simply went from plot beat to plot beat, there would be no point in fleshing the location out, giving you things to do, letting you settle in and "live" there etc. I wouldn't want them to cut the Shenmue out of Shenmue just to get more plot.

Almost the entirety of Shenmue II is spent looking for one person, Yuanda Zhu, with very little of the core mystery touched upon until late in the game.

I haven't beaten the game so I can't comment on where the story ends in III (nor do I want to hear anything about it) but we've known the Shenmue story has been written for years. I find it very hard to believe Yu doesn't know where the story's going.
 
I disagree. The whole point of Bailu is experiencing the calm, simple lifestyle of those who live in a village hidden away from civilisation. Guilin hinted at this in II, and III delivered on it. Sure, you could skip looking for thugs, but then you'd basically be skipping the vast majority of what Bailu has to offer. If you simply went from plot beat to plot beat, there would be no point in fleshing the location out, giving you things to do, letting you settle in and "live" there etc. I wouldn't want them to cut the Shenmue out of Shenmue just to get more plot.

Almost the entirety of Shenmue II is spent looking for one person, Yuanda Zhu, with very little of the core mystery touched upon until late in the game.

I haven't beaten the game so I can't comment on where the story ends in III (nor do I want to hear anything about it) but we've known the Shenmue story has been written for years. I find it very hard to believe Yu doesn't know where the story's going.

I disagree. Although much of Shenmue II is searching for Yuanda Zhu, there's plenty of twists and turns along the way. You meet Wong, Joy, Xiuying, Fangmei, Ren, Yuan etc. So there's not only a really diverse and interesting cast of characters, but also interesting plot points along the way, like meeting the different martial artists, doing the Chawan signs, breaking into the Heaven's hideout, and training with Xiuying (as well as learning about her past). There's also subplots like the Fangmei birthday quest.

I get what Yu was trying to do with Bailu, but something about it just doesn't quite click by the point you leave. I loved the aspect you described, but I feel Yu Suzuki could have gone further and delved deeper into the different character relationships and world building that could be built within Bailu.

In terms of the plot and story, unlike Shenmue 2, it doesn't feel there are interesting characters (Sun was alright though, I guess) and it still feels like you spend 99% of your time asking people "about those thugs" or "about the red snakes". I know people joke that that's all that happens in the first two games, but I feel they just had better pacing and writing and more interesting sub plots along the way.

I've found the red snakes like 40 fucking times. I'm bored of looking for them, move the plot on. Let me beat one of them to a pulp and get him to blab about where Shenhua's father is, because this story is booooooring. Shenmue 1 and 2's Ryo would have beaten one of these thugs by now and have got the information he needs to proceed with the story.
 
It’d certainly be interesting to interview Yu Suzuki and kindly ask why the third game barely progresses the story and why so many ideas were ret conned. “Because I felt like it.”

whack a mole is so legit, though.
 
There's less plot in Shenmue 3 than there is in one disc of Shenmue 1. And at least Shenmue 1's slow plot served a purpose to introduce the story, develop Ryo's character and create a feeling of home, so when Ryo has to travel to Hong Kong, the player feels the same feeling of unease and home sickness. It made you care about those characters from Shenmue 1 and made you miss them when you had to leave. Same with Shenmue 2.

Having played through a lot of Shenmue 3 now, I can safely say I could not give a fuck about Mr. Tubby, pound shop Pai, knock off Megami, annoying blind lady or any of the characters, to be blunt.
 
There's less plot in Shenmue 3 than there is in one disc of Shenmue 1.
Man, all I'll say is I'm glad I'm not experiencing III the same way as you. I was seriously pumped by the cool shit you find out in Bailu, even if it was spread out between finding thugs, pleasing the master etc. I mean, how is it any worse than:
Did you see a black car?
Do you know Chinese people?
Do you know about the 3 blades?
Do you know where sailors hang out?
I'm looking for a game named Charlie...
The original game will always be my favourite, but it is literally Wild Goose Chase The Game.
 
The original game will always be my favourite, but it is literally Wild Goose Chase The Game.

That's exactly what Shenmue 3 is like though! Bailu was actually pretty cool overall, it's Niaowu that's kinda getting to me.

"The red snakes like to hang out at the [something or other] cafe"

*heads to said cafe*

"Oh yeah, we sometimes see those thugs here, but they're more likely to be at the prize exchange"

*heads to the prize exchange*

"Nah, they don't hang around here much. They like to hang out at [something or other] fancy gambling place"

*heads to fancy gambling place*

"Oh, they might hang out here. We're not at liberty to say. Oh you want to investigate this further. Well, you need to be a VIP member. You need a referral"

*ok, need to find someone to refer me*
*asks random NPCs*

"Oh, the guy from the duck place is a VIP member of the casino place"

*runs for 5 miles over to the other end of Niaowu to find the guy who works in the duck restuarant*

"Oh I'm not a member, I wish I was. You have to be rich to be a member"

*Ryo remembers the rich people in the hotel*

Great, so I have to head all the way back to the hotel.
 
That's exactly what Shenmue 3 is like though! Bailu was actually pretty cool overall, it's Niaowu that's kinda getting to me.
That's what all 3 games are like LOL, but I don't mind it.

Yes, Ryo does seem to be a step behind the player at times. From the second you find the list of names in Bailu it's immediately obvious it's a list of stonemasons...yet you're made to show it around to confirm. It's kinda dumb, but I still didn't hate it. It definitely feels like more of a Shenmue 1 thing. In Shenmue II there was a lot less "investigating" -- it was mostly asking for directions the whole game.
 
That's what all 3 games are like LOL, but I don't mind it.

Yes, Ryo does seem to be a step behind the player at times. From the second you find the list of names in Bailu it's immediately obvious it's a list of stonemasons...yet you're made to show it around to confirm. It's kinda dumb, but I still didn't hate it. It definitely feels like more of a Shenmue 1 thing. In Shenmue II there was a lot less "investigating" -- it was mostly asking for directions the whole game.

Hmm I still think the issue is worse than in the first two games. As you more or less say, Shenmue 2 was more direct and had quicker pacing. Shenmue 1 was obviously slow, but it did feel like the plot moved forward (and the characters were interesting, which helped. There aren't really any interesting characters in Niaowu). Yes you'd talk to a lot of people and go back and forth, but your objective would change and new plot points would open up. The issue I outlined above with Niaowu is ultimately I'm still looking for thugs, which is the same basic objective I have been following for the last 20-30 hours since I was in Bailu.

I think there's a fine balance to get right when it comes to moving the plot forward and ensuring that classic Shenmue system is kept in tact. Unfortunately, I do feel sections of Shenmue 3 are bloated and serve only as padding, which is not something I felt happened with the first two games, even with how slow the first game is.
 
I love Shenmue 3's pacing. Its the first game that actually manages to get the training/martial arts stuff right in my opinion, actually makes sense to "grind" to level up and get stronger. Plus I just love the bits in Shenmue 3 about the mirrors, and especially all the Iwao stuff - its basically Ryo reliving the journey and training his father experienced 20 some odd years earlier. Also, Ryo getting the
body check move
is a huge point, seeing as that's Akira's signature move in the VF series, I think it'll continue to be a very important move as the series goes forward. And yeah, most of Shenmue 1 basically has you just running around about the exact same thing slowly for the entire game (Mad Angels was more of a pain to investigate over several days, Shenmue 3 can at least be rushed through way faster by comparison).
 
My next complaint regarding the story is repetition.

Bailu summary:
- Look for thugs
- Find thugs
- Big muscular thug shows up
- Kick his ass
- cut to a cutscene that suggests otherwise, showing Ryo getting his ass handed to him
- Search for martial arts master to teach you a new move so you can magically beat the thug

Niaowu summary:
- Look for thugs
- Find thugs
- Big muscular thug shows up
- Kick his ass
- cut to a cutscene that suggests otherwise, showing Ryo getting his ass handed to him
- Search for martial arts master to teach you a new move so you can magically beat the thug (I'm guessing this is what's going to happen next)
 
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Shenmue was always a chill for me to play... But unfortunately not the new game. Today I wanted to start a 2nd run but I can't. I'm too lazy... If I think about all that stuff like stamina, training, making money and prize tokens I feel a bit stressed :( No joke. I'll play Shenmue I instead and play the second run of Shenmue 3 next year. Its Christmas time anyways :)
 
I think Yu was too ambitious for Shenmue 3. He tried to put everything to please fans as much as he can but could not deepen anything.

Promising Baisha and Choubu so early in 2015 (with English voices) was maybe a mistake.

If I was Yu, I would have saved Niaowu for Shenmue 4 and only focused on Bailu like he did with Yokosuka in Shenmue 1 rather than reproducing the Shenmue 2 scale. Strengthen the mysteries around the mirrors and Iwao, deepen the characters, add more investigation phases to use our brain, more secrets, sacrifice story progression for a better sense of narrative crescendo.

In Shenmue 3, it seems we have neither deepness nor story.

Niaowu looks too big for that level of ambition, it feels almost like a waste.

Nonetheless, I like the game as a solid adventure game with some qualities typical of Shenmue:
great sense of humour and pace, inspiring and beautiful world building, adorable kids, the adventure scale, freedom feel, some brilliant minigames, the way the circular economy make the stores all useful, being waken by Shenhua every morning, etc.

After 33 hours of enjoyment, I decided to take a break to make sure I am fully receptive and appreciate the last half. Beating the game too fast is my biggest fear.
 
Shenmue was always a chill for me to play... But unfortunately not the new game. Today I wanted to start a 2nd run but I can't. I'm too lazy... If I think about all that stuff like stamina, training, making money and prize tokens I feel a bit stressed :( No joke. I'll play Shenmue I instead and play the second run of Shenmue 3 next year. Its Christmas time anyways :)
My plan is to start the game normally until I reach the part where I need to find the bookie. At that point I will load a save file I made after maxing out horse stance and one inch punch to avoid hours of grinding.The stamina system does make the game less replayable from scratch due to these grinding elements. I would hate to play through it again without my save file with max stats.
 
My plan is to start the game normally until I reach the part where I need to find the bookie. At that point I will load a save file I made after maxing out horse stance and one inch punch to avoid hours of grinding.The stamina system does make the game less replayable from scratch due to these grinding elements. I would hate to play through it again without my save file with max stats.

Good Idea :) I hate grinding... Grinding has for me nothing to do with Shenmue and I hope in S4 there won't be so much grinding.
 
I think Yu was too ambitious for Shenmue 3. He tried to put everything to please fans as much as he can but could not deepen anything.

Promising Baisha and Choubu so early in 2015 (with English voices) was maybe a mistake.

If I was Yu, I would have saved Niaowu for Shenmue 4 and only focused on Bailu like he did with Yokosuka in Shenmue 1 rather than reproducing the Shenmue 2 scale. Strengthen the mysteries around the mirrors and Iwao, deepen the characters, add more investigation phases to use our brain, more secrets, sacrifice story progression for a better sense of narrative crescendo.

In Shenmue 3, it seems we have neither deepness nor story.

Niaowu looks too big for that level of ambition, it feels almost like a waste.

Nonetheless, I like the game as a solid adventure game with some qualities typical of Shenmue:
great sense of humour and pace, inspiring and beautiful world building, adorable kids, the adventure scale, freedom feel, some brilliant minigames, the way the circular economy make the stores all useful, being waken by Shenhua every morning, etc.

After 33 hours of enjoyment, I decided to take a break to make sure I am fully receptive and appreciate the last half. Beating the game too fast is my biggest fear.

I actually question why they made Niaowu so large. Does it really need to be that big? Couldn't they have made it smaller, increased the number of NPCs (and increased the number you can interact with) and concentrated on making the story pacing better? Bailu felt a bit rushed towards the end. They should have explored more of Iwao's history and the history/meaning of the mirrors and tied that more into the plot than the whole looking for thugs scenario. I feel Bailu could have been increased in scale and Niaowu scaled down. Maybe then they could have included Baisha? Who knows? I know none of this is simple or straightforward.

Niaowu is just a bit of a ball ache to traverse and explore and it doesn't need to be that large, because there's largely little point to most of the areas.
 
I am enjoying Shenmue III my second play through a lot more.

The first time I played it, I don't think my mindset was focused on the game at the time and I think maybe I felt like I had to rush which was part of the problem. Much of this was because I had already played 19 hours of the demo in Bailu Village and I think had I not played the demo that I would have been more surprised.

I wish there was a bit more character depth but I enjoyed talking to Shenhua every night, I did actually enjoy the small things like gambling, lucky hit, dice, wind river moon flower ( or whichever order it was), the turtle and frog races, catching birds, etc.

Visually the game is gorgeous.

I do wish Niaowu felt more populated, overall though I have been enjoying the game.
 
I wish Chobu was more populated as well. Though seeing how the game kinda has a hard time with characters phasing in at times I wonder if the game engine was hampering them slightly? Either that or time - Shenmue 2 was not only larger than 1 but managed to pack so many NPCs into the areas that it just felt more allive and bustling, something parts of 3 lack. Its far from a game breaker but I'd bet its something that a bigger budget and more time would have fixed, but watcha gonna do.

I discovered Smart Ball today and was doing that for one whole game day. Some of those challenges though seem impossible (I purchased a moves scroll to avoid doing one of them, its more expensive sure, but easier!

Oh, and the QTE right before you reach the Smart Ball area cracked me up. Ryo going out of his way to not damage the stand. Was quite happy to do that QTE perfectly on my second try, guess my reflexes aren't as bad as I thought!
 
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