How to make the combat better in Shenmue 4?

Joined
Dec 19, 2019
One of my complains about Shenmue 3 is the combat.

I think with these changes/improvements the combat can become more satisfying.

1.In Skill Book menu, show the amount of damage that each moves deals to the enemies. Description don't give enough info about the damage stats that each move has.

2.Change the dodge button to right analog. Tapping left analog for dodges isn't that precise.

3.Get rid of "pressing a combination of buttons to do a move".(Like pressing A two times to do a ground attack.)
Instead allow the players to fully customize their attack buttons similar to God Hand game.
technique%20scree.jpg

With this system players can customize all of their combo buttons and get rid of the moves that they don't want to use. It also encourages the players to always get new moves and try them.

4.Add throw moves, I would also like to have the ability to escape enemy throws.

5.Make the dummy training sections better. If the developers want the players to spend a lot of time on the dummies , then these mini games should become more fun than the way they were in Shenmue 3.

6.change the aim to L2 and R2 instead of right analog stick.

These are my ideas. What are your ideas ?
 
Joined
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Favourite title
Shenmue II
Currently playing
Disco Elysium (PS4) / Griftlands (SWITCH)
Tighten up collisions and make the impact of strikes more visceral.

Control-wise, minimise input lag as much as possible - perhaps remap some of the four face button moves to moves performed whilst holding down the L2 trigger.

Implementing throws would be great, obviously.
 

24Nathan

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:13 pm
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I so wish we could just have the Virtua FIghter engine back. People would whine about even the Virtua Fighter 5 engine being "outdated", but I would be completely fine with it. I got used to the new system, but I miss having all of the old moves...a lot of the moves in this game are just combos of already existing moves in the game. Give me back throws, give me back Swallow Dive, and all of the other moves that didn't exist in the game.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Add throws
Make enemies get up quicker after a hard knockdown - add rising strikes
Bring back the booming sound effect on clean hits, with hard hitting moves e.g double blow
Add a parry system for perfectly timed blocks - have Ryo slap them to the left or right ala Shenmue 2 which opens them up to counter hits - and sell these moves with weighty sfx
Have a proper tutorial to welcome newbies

That's it. I really like Shenmue 3s combat. It was my biggest worry during development and I truly think they did a good job with it.
 
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The modding videos with Solid Snake/Link/Geralt of Rivia make the engine look better than it is. Presumably because the game was set at easiest difficulty as B-man supposed. Or maybe the camera is too far away?

The fight looks pretty good in this video too although the AI is not too aggressive neither and the youtuber's blatantly playing in a classy manner:

As far as I prefer the VF engine, I've the feeling that the team is very close to achieve something valuable with just some tweaks and few additions.
 
Joined
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danmann861
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-- Bring back proper counters and throws.
-- Work on the input lag. (I personally don't mind the method of move input but the lag does dampen it a little)
-- Work on the hit animations a little more.
-- Consider something like Shenmue II where we can change out assigned moves to inputs
-- Work on Multi Men battles and Auto Detection

Honestly, I don't mind the new combat system. I think the foundations are there, it just needs more refinement. But for what it was? I had real low expectations and I was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed the fighting in III. Is it perfect? No. But is it a lot better than I thought it would be? Very much so.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Speaking of combat, no offence to Yu, but what was he blabbering on about in all those interviews about having puzzle elements within the fighting system? He talked about use of the environment and how strategy plays a bigger role.

Like none of that is true, so I guess ideas he has never got implemented.
 
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
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Shenmue
Currently playing
Strider (2014)
The only thing I can add is to nerf the “Shinbone Smash” move as it is broken.

 
Joined
Aug 22, 2018
One of my complains about Shenmue 3 is the combat.

I think with these changes/improvements the combat can become more satisfying.

1.In Skill Book menu, show the amount of damage that each moves deals to the enemies. Description don't give enough info about the damage stats that each move has.

2.Change the dodge button to right analog. Tapping left analog for dodges isn't that precise.

3.Get rid of "pressing a combination of buttons to do a move".(Like pressing A two times to do a ground attack.)
Instead allow the players to fully customize their attack buttons similar to God Hand game.
technique%20scree.jpg

With this system players can customize all of their combo buttons and get rid of the moves that they don't want to use. It also encourages the players to always get new moves and try them.

4.Add throw moves, I would also like to have the ability to escape enemy throws.

5.Make the dummy training sections better. If the developers want the players to spend a lot of time on the dummies , then these mini games should become more fun than the way they were in Shenmue 3.

6.change the aim to L2 and R2 instead of right analog stick.

These are my ideas. What are your ideas ?
Everything is OK but the combos. Sorry, if they got rid of the combos to do moves it'd become AC Odyssey, and all previous AC's/Skyrim/insert a name of 99% of other RPGs. Combat that needs your skill is the one thing that makes all 3 unique RPGs. I hope he never does it to dumb it down any. The throws would fit in after blocking just right, plus the circular wrist lock takedown after the dodge would just rock.
 
Joined
Aug 22, 2018
Bring back the Virtua Fighter engine, and fuse it with the freedom of movement of the current Shenmue 3 engine.
That's it.
Impossible man, and you know why, directional buttons left hand, moving left hand. I was insanely happy they put all inputs on the right hand. Take your time, get used to it, but don't ask them to go backwards out of nostalgia.
 
OP
OP
D
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Speaking of combat, no offence to Yu, but what was he blabbering on about in all those interviews about having puzzle elements within the fighting system? He talked about use of the environment and how strategy plays a bigger role.

Like none of that is true, so I guess ideas he has never got implemented.
In Shenmue 3 it is kinda implemented.

In fight with those Dojo martial artists and those ring fights, you can win the fights by throwing opponents off the ring instead of reducing their HP to 0.
 
OP
OP
D
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
QTEs were also meant to be “evolved” from the first two games. I remember him going on about Sound.
During game development, lots of ideas will change and get removed from the game.

GTA 3 was supposed to have:
-Multiplayer
-A mission that was replaced by "Love's disappearance".
-A fully flyable plane that was replaced by Dodo.
-Some changes in some missions.(At "Luigi girls" missions you had to pick 2 girls instead of 1.)
-A mob boss and his missions that were removed.
-A First Person Mode.
-A more realistic looking police cars that were re-textured due to 9/11.
-Ability to create your own character in the game like RPG games.
But all of them were cut from the final game.

So it's not a big surprise that some ideas that Suzuki wanted to add for Shenmue 3 had to be removed.
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Favourite title
Shenmue IIx
Currently playing
Ghost of Tsushima
PSN
mjqjazzbar
Yes, it’s shame. Got to admire the ambition, though.
 
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
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france
Currently playing
shenmue chapter yokosuka
Impossible man, and you know why, directional buttons left hand, moving left hand. I was insanely happy they put all inputs on the right hand. Take your time, get used to it, but don't ask them to go backwards out of nostalgia.
You can't move when you kick and punch so this excuse is a moot point to me.
No nostalgie about it, directionals input feel far more logical than only buttons input to me.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Impossible man, and you know why, directional buttons left hand, moving left hand. I was insanely happy they put all inputs on the right hand. Take your time, get used to it, but don't ask them to go backwards out of nostalgia.

It's not nostalgia, the Virtua Fighter engine is the best fighting engine around.
This new shenmue 3 is not that bad when you get used to it, but VF is another planet, and I want Shenmue 4 to have an evolution of the Vf engine, complete with uneven terraint, obstacles, walls, etc.

The right evolution that shoul've been if Shenmue 3 was released in 2004.
 
Joined
Aug 22, 2018
Knowledge should equal power.

Learning new scrolls and their use in combat should gain Ryo a tactical advantage over his opponents. Endurance and attack power would still be relevant.

Example

Thugs

Have very little/no martial arts training. Ryo can defeat these quite easily but they are levelled in a way that the stronger thugs are more difficult to dispose of. They tend to attack Ryo in groups. Their lack of kung fu allows for the player to apply a wide range of attacks and counter manoeuvres; as they regularly leave themselves open. If the player learns more moves, and trains these effectively, then fights will be straightforward.

Martial art practitioners

Mid-range kung fu knowledge. If they reveal their style to Ryo; learned counter moves can be used to deflect their stronger attacks. They can also counter Ryo's basic attacks. Well trained moves (high attack power), good knowledge (move scrolls), and strong endurance would allow the player to win fights with a bit of strategy.

Expert martial artists (boss)

High level of kung fu knowledge. Their attack power is enhanced. Their fighting style may be a style Ryo has not encountered yet or requires the use of "special" moves to help overcome. Very few/if none counter opportunities until they are fatigued. These fights rely on strong endurance, high attack power and expert knowledge to survive and create opportunities to strike.

Fight ending counter-attacks could have a QTE element (similar to the end of Niaowu) to allow the player to react.
 
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Location
France
Currently playing
Football Manager 2020
QTEs were also meant to be “evolved” from the first two games. I remember him going on about Sound.

The QTE based on sounds were only experimental. He was never sure they would eventually work.

My theory is that the new QTEs were meant to work like the Xiuying's catching leafs, where you could hear a gentle sound when Ryo was in position to catch a falling leaf (If I remember, it was an altered version of the classic notification sound when Ryo is picking a new item to his pocket).

The problem is: if you want to associate a button with a specific sound, you have to teach the player. So they needed cutscenes involving Ryo and someone, likely the blind old woman or the drunken master of Bailu, in the same way as the scene with Ryo and the fake blind master teaching the Predictive Explosion in Shenmue 2. After all, the first QTEs of Shenmue 3 only appear near the end of the Bailu's chapter.

And you know how economic the story is in Shenmue 3. It would need two, three or four additional cutscenes and bundles of dialogues to make it.

That might explain why the QTEs are ridiculously hard in Shenmue 3. Because they were intended to be associated with sounds to help the player. They removed the sounds but forgot/didn't have time to tweak the QTEs.

Or else, the sound QTEs were simply part of the Baisha stage. At least, it would make sense for the "puzzle" elements in combat Yu was talking about. It seems that many Yu's ideas were intended to be introduced in Baisha like his Character Perpective system since he needed Ren and Shenhua know each other to make the feature relevant.
 
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