How to make the combat better in Shenmue 4?

orient said:
We can dream, but it's so far out of the realm of possibility. The amount of work it'd take to recreate the VF5 fighting engine, then make it work with multiple opponents like they did with the original games, would be insane. The only sensible option is to work with what they made for III and improve upon it.

Improvements I'd like to see:
  • 100% agree with the dodge -- it isn't comfortable on the left stick
  • enemies should get up quicker
  • throws, obviously
  • more enemy variety -- really fast opponents, slow, powerful opponents etc.
  • refine the hit detection/contact lag -- your hits can feel really delayed sometimes
  • have Ryo move further forward into range during a technique -- way too often did I execute a technique and miss because it's hard to judge distance from behind, and Ryo only moves really short distances with most techniques
  • bring back the more dramatic sound effects for moves -- they'd have to change them up a bit as they're pretty much straight out of VF as well
Click to expand...

Yes, rebuild the VF engine would be a massive task, it could only work if they can borrow directly the engine from Sega, or like I said in the other topic, is YsNet and Sega make a collaboration to develop Virtua Fighter 6 and Shenmue IV at the same time, sharing the same battle system.

But if Shenmue 3 battle system has to stay for S4, I'd like it to be more sophisticated, a real "next gen" battle engine like only Yu Suzuki could do.
Right now the S3 system is pretty standard with many flaws, and feels (and in truth is) like a downgrade.

Solving those flaws, adding the features that were the standard in Shenmue 1 and 2 (throws, evasions, counter etc.), and finally adding new elements (dynamic and cinematic qte, unevern terrain, interaction with the enviroment etc.) would really help make it feel the right evolution of the series.
 
I really like the combat in S3, the cpu sometimes it's clever, and avoid the same attacks various times, you should change your way of fight to win. Also the training and practice it's really rewarded and satisfactory now, and you can truly watch the results in the fights.

The only thing i would change it's the camera, i rather the lateral camera of the previous games.
 
Last edited:
I actually think the combat is too fast in Shenmue 3 - there's not really any tactics in it. You have to keep distance and then dodge left or right and unleash a powerful move. In the originals you would dodge backwards or step in and could place combo moves in. It feels a lot more beat em up than the previous games to me.
 
Life_247 said:
I actually think the combat is too fast in Shenmue 3 - there's not really any tactics in it. You have to keep distance and then dodge left or right and unleash a powerful move. In the originals you would dodge backwards or step in and could place combo moves in. It feels a lot more beat em up than the previous games to me.
Click to expand...
Shenmue 3 has some tactics in it though.
1.You have blocking that allows you to block some enemies attacks after the block you can punish them.
2.you can punch/kick those tigers and dragons out of the ring.Which that will give you an instant victory.
3.When fighting a group of enemjes, you have to avoid letting them attack you from different directions. You also have to use attacks that launch enemies to the ground.
4.you can also hit them on the ground with some moves.

But yeah, the combat needs to be better than that.
 
I think the combat in shenmue 3 is a solid foundation to build on top of in future games. I thought I was going to really miss the old fighting system from 1&2 but I was surprised how well I got on with the new way it works. I even *whisper it now* think it does a better job in large group fights!

That being said, and as I've said before, I think the lack of throws and counters can be felt. To add them back in would also take a lot of work in making the bodies of fighters react more to the specific animation of their opponents. Fixing both of these things in tandem would make Shenmue 4's fighting system nigh-on perfect for me.
 
DragonOfJoejima said:
I think the combat in shenmue 3 is a solid foundation to build on top of in future games. I thought I was going to really miss the old fighting system from 1&2 but I was surprised how well I got on with the new way it works. I even *whisper it now* think it does a better job in large group fights!

That being said, and as I've said before, I think the lack of throws and counters can be felt. To add them back in would also take a lot of work in making the bodies of fighters react more to the specific animation of their opponents. Fixing both of these things in tandem would make Shenmue 4's fighting system nigh-on perfect for me.
Click to expand...
Nah don't whisper, in many ways this new system is a huge step up, if only he had more money... It felt so free, so fluid. Telling that to the rabid fans of VF and 1&2 is useless though. Let him get going fine tuning it, and capturing the throws and counters. It might even become a VF6 along with S4 if his talks succeed. It might just rock. I know I'll be told what I'll be told, of all the fighters I've played, I enjoyed S3 the most. Had to train my fingers, but after I just did. I hope he gets like 20 mill for S4. If useless things with much inferior fighting systems and cheap thrills from profanity, gore, and nudity can get it, or more, S4 should. Just my opinion.
 
Dmitriy1 said:
Nah don't whisper, in many ways this new system is a huge step up, if only he had more money... It felt so free, so fluid. Telling that to the rabid fans of VF and 1&2 is useless though. Let him get going fine tuning it, and capturing the throws and counters. It might even become a VF6 along with S4 if his talks succeed. It might just rock. I know I'll be told what I'll be told, of all the fighters I've played, I enjoyed S3 the most. Had to train my fingers, but after I just did. I hope he gets like 20 mill for S4. If useless things with much inferior fighting systems and cheap thrills from profanity, gore, and nudity can get it, or more, S4 should. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...
The main thing I like about S3 combat over S1 and 2 is this that it at least had harder difficulty settings to force the players to learn how to properly fight than just mashing buttons mindlessly.(Which was the way I played S1 and 2 and the game didn't punish me for that at all.)
 
24Nathan said:
I so wish we could just have the Virtua FIghter engine back. People would whine about even the Virtua Fighter 5 engine being "outdated", but I would be completely fine with it. I got used to the new system, but I miss having all of the old moves...a lot of the moves in this game are just combos of already existing moves in the game. Give me back throws, give me back Swallow Dive, and all of the other moves that didn't exist in the game.
Click to expand...


The Virtua Fighter 3 engine is outdated yes.
But odds are if SEGA had given Ys Net permission to use their licensed VF assets, it definitely would not have been the VF3 engine; it would have most likely been an updated VF5 engine, which of course would have had to been heavily modified to work in Unreal Engine 4.
 
Dmitriy1 said:
Nah don't whisper, in many ways this new system is a huge step up, if only he had more money... It felt so free, so fluid. Telling that to the rabid fans of VF and 1&2 is useless though. Let him get going fine tuning it, and capturing the throws and counters. It might even become a VF6 along with S4 if his talks succeed. It might just rock. I know I'll be told what I'll be told, of all the fighters I've played, I enjoyed S3 the most. Had to train my fingers, but after I just did. I hope he gets like 20 mill for S4. If useless things with much inferior fighting systems and cheap thrills from profanity, gore, and nudity can get it, or more, S4 should. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...


I dont think this'd be a VF6 base.

This is more akin to what Urban Reign was to Tekken
 
The fighting system is mostly enjoyable, but it does have some issues which annoy me when I'm playing it.
One of the most annoying things in multi opponent fights is the targeting system. Give me the option to turn off the opponent targeting or incorporate a strafe button.

If I'm surrounded by three opponents the control system can get too clunky rather than giving me an opportunity to fight elegantly. If I knock someone on the floor Ryo can no longer target the guy on the floor and he often spins around to face someone else.

I'd simply like to have the ability to attack in any direction I'm pushing on the analogue stick, even if that gives the game a much steeper difficulty curve. Aside from losing focus on downed opponents the game allows me to target an opponent that's standing way behind other opponents that are directly in front of me, sometimes creating a situation where I'm attacking thin air and it then takes multiple movements of the RH analogue stick to target the guy that I want to.

Ryo should also be a bit more agile in fights imo, he's able to sprint from one end of Bailu to the other but when in a fight he's very slow. I know this is a design choice, but being able to run to/from opponents in large areas would be appreciated. It would be very rewarding to run up to the guys before the fight with Lan-Di and take them out with something like a flying kick.

If YsNet can can get some of the niggles sorted with some SW patches it will give an excellent building block for improvements in the next game. I don't want SIII to play like Yakuza, but I do want a game where it feels like I'm controlling a guy with a burning rage to get revenge for his father death.
 
I don't know anything about fighting games or fighting game engines, so I Probably played this all wrong. The way I played it was to rely on switching between 5 of my favorite moves in my MT list and hitting the L button to attack, and then mixing in a couple of other moves that I memorized that were not on the MT that I had selected. Of course while blocking and dodging.

It was weird to me that the face buttons didn't seem to correspond to a specific type of attack, although I could be wrong. It just seemed like combo combinations were random no matter if the attack was based on punching or kicking.

I would have preferred for kicks to use square and X and punches use triangle and circle or something like that, and combo based on kicking start off with the square or X button and make sense in that way.

I spent a ton of time leveling up my Kung Fu and every move scroll, so it didn't require much strategy on hard difficulty setting, even in the Rose Garden, though it got reslly tough on hardest.

Maybe I just button mashed my way through it and missed all of the nuances so I could be totally wrong, LOL.
 
RyoIsTheShenmueTree said:
I don't know anything about fighting games or fighting game engines, so I Probably played this all wrong. The way I played it was to rely on switching between 5 of my favorite moves in my MT list and hitting the L button to attack, and then mixing in a couple of other moves that I memorized that were not on the MT that I had selected. Of course while blocking and dodging.

It was weird to me that the face buttons didn't seem to correspond to a specific type of attack, although I could be wrong. It just seemed like combo combinations were random no matter if the attack was based on punching or kicking.

I would have preferred for kicks to use square and X and punches use triangle and circle or something like that, and combo based on kicking start off with the square or X button and make sense in that way.

I spent a ton of time leveling up my Kung Fu and every move scroll, so it didn't require much strategy on hard difficulty setting, even in the Rose Garden, though it got reslly tough on hardest.

Maybe I just button mashed my way through it and missed all of the nuances so I could be totally wrong, LOL.
Click to expand...
Well Yu Suzuki talked about your types, he wanted the likes of you to easily get into and enjoy the game still. 5 move cycle does that. I just refused to ever use it. The system is about sliding your thumb, it's hard to explain if i don't show. Once I got it, it just clicked. Even the longer crazier combos.
 
Dmitriy1 said:
Well Yu Suzuki talked about your types, he wanted the likes of you to easily get into and enjoy the game still. 5 move cycle does that. I just refused to ever use it. The system is about sliding your thumb, it's hard to explain if i don't show. Once I got it, it just clicked. Even the longer crazier combos.
Click to expand...

I tried the sliding ‘technique’ and found it didn’t work for me. I’ve become fairly proficient at the fighting by using traditional button presses. It’s good that it works for some though as it’s definitely an interesting approach.
 
I thought the same at first but the button inputs eventually make sense.
High Kick
Low Kick
High Punch
Low Punch

It's not always consistent but most of the time, it's easy to get the logic of a move.
 
Anyone excited about Rally in 6 days? It's the first DLC you can run and fight as Ryo, Ren, or that girl in Bailu we could spar with.
 
Yokosuka said:
I thought the same at first but the button inputs eventually make sense.
High Kick
Low Kick
High Punch
Low Punch

It's not always consistent but most of the time, it's easy to get the logic of a move.
Click to expand...


LOL, you are totally right.

X is high kick
Square is a knee
O is like an upper cut or hook
Triangle is a jab

I never noticed, I guess because I always favored special moves over simple attacks because I assumed (I don't know if rightly or wrongly) that Special Moves did more damage.

I think I tried to figure it out once while in a fight, rather than sparring, so I just gave up and mashed buttons to win.

I don't know what I was doing, but I leveled all of my moves up, so I guess it didn't matter.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top