How to make the combat better in Shenmue 4?
- Thread starter Dg1995
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I think it was due to lack of time/budget. I remember before the release in one of their kickstarter updates, they announced that S3 doesn't have throws .
Sonoshee
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I saw the mo-cap guy in one of the KS updates, the space he had looked rather... small, to say the least.
It's a shame Sega couldn't have let Yu use their state of the art mo-cap facility
It's a shame Sega couldn't have let Yu use their state of the art mo-cap facility
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[Part 3] Shenmue Discussion with Yu Suzuki & Developers | IGN Japan
A blog on the Shenmue series of games from Yu Suzuki with a mission to translate articles, videos and updates for English-speaking fans.
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Here's some detail in who was involved.
17 people seems like quite a bit, but I don't know how this works.
17 people seems like quite a bit, but I don't know how this works.
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Having the 4 face buttons all being utilized with seemingly random combinations made things really hard to remember. It doesn't help that we now have 3 different games in this series with many of the same moves that use a different button combination in each game.
Dodge should have been Triangle/Y, kick should have been Cross/A, and punches should have been Square/X. This would have allowed Circle/B be reserved for throw moves in the future. I don't know how they will implement them if they get the opportunity without drastically altering the move inputs for a 4th time.
Other than that, my only complaint with the system would be the organization of the skill books in the UI. I think there should have been a skill book tracking inventory screen (similar to what we had, but with a set number of slots as in Shenmue 1 and 2 so you know how many skill books are still out there) and then a move list. This way, the default moves would not be shown as move scrolls which just cluttered the menu.
I also think they might as well have shown the names of the moves you were pulling off in Free Battle and have that contribute to your move level and kung fu level like sparring did.
Dodge should have been Triangle/Y, kick should have been Cross/A, and punches should have been Square/X. This would have allowed Circle/B be reserved for throw moves in the future. I don't know how they will implement them if they get the opportunity without drastically altering the move inputs for a 4th time.
Other than that, my only complaint with the system would be the organization of the skill books in the UI. I think there should have been a skill book tracking inventory screen (similar to what we had, but with a set number of slots as in Shenmue 1 and 2 so you know how many skill books are still out there) and then a move list. This way, the default moves would not be shown as move scrolls which just cluttered the menu.
I also think they might as well have shown the names of the moves you were pulling off in Free Battle and have that contribute to your move level and kung fu level like sparring did.
高野和泉
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The cheaper studio was not "Safe" enough for throws Mo-capped sessions. Since they can't rent out state of the art studios without shaving off a huge chunk of the limited budget with a pretty sizeable pool of throws in Ryo's arsenal already plus new ones YS would need to add in S3 if implemented. But Now that 80% of the mo-capped is recorded and recycleable for SIV I fully expect the other 20% should be worked out and refined into SIV within a similar dev cycle.
Agree. I can get used to using no directional buttons, but the button combos were very random. Think of how many buttons you;d have to press if we were to be able to use the Reverse Body Check in battle!
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I would like to see less combos - and more powerful moves replacing moves like in Shenmue 1. The ones that double up just seem to randomly alternate.
I actually started to get good at the combat but basically it all comes down to block and move around the enemy.
The game does a horrible job of explaining the combat system.
I actually started to get good at the combat but basically it all comes down to block and move around the enemy.
The game does a horrible job of explaining the combat system.
spud1897
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Yeah it does, I know the first games didnt explain much but a little 10 mins tutorial on the new system would have helped nicely.
That said I quite like the basis of the new combat system.
The moves replacement I agree with. They did it in Shenmue 2 also and allowed you to choose the moves you liked. I'm all for that.
agree with the move replacement too, but like Shenmue 2, where you can select the one you want to use.
I'd like the VF engine back for Shenmue IV, but if it's not possible, I hope that they make the current one deeper:
-add throws (and many of them)
-add counters
-add static (crouch) evasion (like shenmue 1 and 2)
-add uneven terrain battle like VF3 (with advantage and disavantages based on enemy and your position)
-cinematic QTE in battles (like the finishing attack on bosses, or like the Heat moves in Yakuza).
-more interaction with enviroment (like the destructible shelves in the VIP room fight in S3)
and last, more accurate chinese martial arts tecniques, like in the previous games.
I'd like the VF engine back for Shenmue IV, but if it's not possible, I hope that they make the current one deeper:
-add throws (and many of them)
-add counters
-add static (crouch) evasion (like shenmue 1 and 2)
-add uneven terrain battle like VF3 (with advantage and disavantages based on enemy and your position)
-cinematic QTE in battles (like the finishing attack on bosses, or like the Heat moves in Yakuza).
-more interaction with enviroment (like the destructible shelves in the VIP room fight in S3)
and last, more accurate chinese martial arts tecniques, like in the previous games.
I don't know why lots of you throw that "VF engine" in this thread.
The latest VF game was VF 5 and it's graphic engine:
-Isn't compatible with PC.
-Doesn't have lots of new graphical features that came in PS4/Xbox 1 generation.
-And I'm pretty sure it can't handle that big areas since VF engine was for fighting games.
Unreal engine is far better for Shenmue these days.
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I'm referring to the fighting engine, not the graphical engine.
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We can dream, but it's so far out of the realm of possibility. The amount of work it'd take to recreate the VF5 fighting engine, then make it work with multiple opponents like they did with the original games, would be insane. The only sensible option is to work with what they made for III and improve upon it.
Improvements I'd like to see:
- 100% agree with the dodge -- it isn't comfortable on the left stick
- enemies should get up quicker
- throws, obviously
- more enemy variety -- really fast opponents, slow, powerful opponents etc.
- refine the hit detection/contact lag -- your hits can feel really delayed sometimes
- have Ryo move further forward into range during a technique -- way too often did I execute a technique and miss because it's hard to judge distance from behind, and Ryo only moves really short distances with most techniques
- bring back the more dramatic sound effects for moves -- they'd have to change them up a bit as they're pretty much straight out of VF as well
You had attacks miss? In my experience, I rarely missed an attack. There were moments while sparring that I'd be amazed at how far forward he would sometimes step, to the point where I tried to get as far away as possible and he'd still make the monstrous jump.
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It needs faster movement with more aggressive ai in particular, the weight of the ragdolls needs to be heavier and far quicker, more variety in combat styles as everyone you fight blends together. Place a cool down on the 1 button combo aspect so people cant spam it and only spam it like you see in most footage.
Biggest of all though is a hard change, theres just straight up input lag especially since when your inputting in a buttom prompt your not getting immediate feedback but rather starting the trigger of a pre-canned animation rather than being the one putting it in manually like a real fighting game such as tekken and the like. Like if you put in a A+B+B+D combo in tekken youd actually be pressing a button in time with the actual animation at least mostly so your getting that immediate gratification of the inputs, and if you were to fail midway through youd still get those parts of the input triggered. In shenmue 3 however alot of the more grandiose moves feel like i put in the button combo and only then do you see an un-faiable combo made cause its just a pre-canned animation outright. This was fine with smaller combos that were quick single moves, but when it got to moves that were ryo landing multiple hits over a couple seconds it felt awkward as hell.
This would solve a massive amount of the weight/feedback problems the game has for me and allows for longer combos at that. Id much rather see focus on this more than trying to add throws back
Biggest of all though is a hard change, theres just straight up input lag especially since when your inputting in a buttom prompt your not getting immediate feedback but rather starting the trigger of a pre-canned animation rather than being the one putting it in manually like a real fighting game such as tekken and the like. Like if you put in a A+B+B+D combo in tekken youd actually be pressing a button in time with the actual animation at least mostly so your getting that immediate gratification of the inputs, and if you were to fail midway through youd still get those parts of the input triggered. In shenmue 3 however alot of the more grandiose moves feel like i put in the button combo and only then do you see an un-faiable combo made cause its just a pre-canned animation outright. This was fine with smaller combos that were quick single moves, but when it got to moves that were ryo landing multiple hits over a couple seconds it felt awkward as hell.
This would solve a massive amount of the weight/feedback problems the game has for me and allows for longer combos at that. Id much rather see focus on this more than trying to add throws back
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Hmmmmm, an idea came to my mind.
Would you guys mind if Ryo gets this ability to use melee weapons during combat ?(Like pipes for example)
I think this idea can allow you to have a better fighting chance against multiple enemies. Since in Shenmue 3, when you are fighting 3-4 opponents, you have to just guard and use some safe moves to knock enemies on the ground.
Imo it should be unblockable with a limited durability.
They can also add a risk/reward system for this. Like this that if enemies hit you, Ryo drops the melee weapon on the ground. Then enemies can pick it up and use it against the players.
Would you guys mind if Ryo gets this ability to use melee weapons during combat ?(Like pipes for example)
I think this idea can allow you to have a better fighting chance against multiple enemies. Since in Shenmue 3, when you are fighting 3-4 opponents, you have to just guard and use some safe moves to knock enemies on the ground.
Imo it should be unblockable with a limited durability.
They can also add a risk/reward system for this. Like this that if enemies hit you, Ryo drops the melee weapon on the ground. Then enemies can pick it up and use it against the players.
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I think it needs to pick a lane and go for it, either simplify the combat to more of a simple beat em up or go hard in the fighting game direction. If it goes the simple beat em up the introduction of weapons would be a great way to build up variety in combat and change things up.
Downside, this would literally just be yakuza's combat but most likely far worse at that point, it also is incredibly out of character for ryo to be lobbing weapons at people out of the blue when hes always used his fists even against armed enemies. I'd much rather the game polish up its own combat system and go its own route with the system, theres potential in 3's combat its just half baked.