I want the magical/mystical elements back.

This is only my opinion but I prefer realism so I hope the magical / mystical element does not come back except maybe for the mirrors. i don't want to see ryo doing "Kamé Hamé Ha" and lan di doing "thunder attacks" shenmue online style.
 
I mean in equilibrium. I don't wan't that either, but I want the elements of the two first games back. The dreams, the power of the nature and the ki and the darkness, the Dragon and the Phoenix, the monster/creature that wants to dominate the world or end it, etc.

I know that Shenmue online trailer is not definitive proof of anything that come to be mandatory, but I definitely want to see the transformation of Shenhua on empress, the earth with the Dragon and the Phoenix emerging, etc. Otherwise, it would be very dissapointing to me, I always imagined the end of the saga like that, even before that Shenmue online trailers did come out. The first two games are constantly throwing hints at that.


It's curious, in that video there is all that I want to see xD.

This ilustration exist before Shenmue online:

Shenhua Ling Face Art - Shenmue 2 Art Gallery

View an image titled 'Shenhua Ling Face Art' in our Shenmue 2 art gallery featuring official character designs, concept art, and promo pictures.
www.creativeuncut.com
 
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Whilst its been somewhat confirmed that anything Shenmue Online related isn't canon to the overall Shenmue saga, I have to admit I have never believed that. The trailer was just far too on the nose for it not to be. Recently I rewatched the trailer, and even this shot looks like a town that resides at the end (or along) the Great Wall that Ren, Shenhua and Ryo are walking along, at the end of Shenmue 3. If you look closely, you can see the snake like winding nature of the main path through the inhabited sections of this area. The mountain peaks also match up with the scroll Shenhua reads out to Elder Yeh, describing the "cliff" area we know they are venturing to next.

Screenshot_20210803-172034_YouTube.jpg

Also along the way, we have been told that the entire Shenmue saga has been written in a style where chapters can be swapped out and moved around, as well as details being moved or amended slightly. I believe this is the case at the end of Shenmue 3, where like the Shenmue Online trailer, a friend of Ryo is held hostage and threatened for him to relinquish the Phoenix Mirror. As we know in the Shenmue Online version it was Joy at knifepoint, and the mirror going to Lan Di, whereas in Shenmue 3, it was Shenhua, and the mirror going to Niao Sun.

It's curious to see that play out, and does make you wonder if Shenmue Onine did in fact rewrite the scenario from the original scripts, or if maybe the ending to Shenmue 3 was what was meant to happen all along. The odd thing is though, is that I can never see Ryo going back to Hong Kong, after he leaves in Chapter 4.
 
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I even think that perhaps the team believed in the posibility to end the saga with this game, as ours playing as characters that help Ryo in his quest, and watching his story making progress and fighting with the bosses, Lan-di included, helping him in some ways.

If I don't remember wrong, this game was going to come out in full swing of mmrpg, like WOW and others. Perhaps they did think that it was the best way to continue the saga or even end it.
 
I think the reason they were dialled back/retconned in Shenmue III might have been because of years of worried fans asking Yu Suzuki about the ending of II or the Shenmue Online trailer, thinking it was representative of where the series was going - which was never the case even if it clearly drew from ideas and iconography from chapters beyond the ending of Shenmue II.

Now the elephant in the room has been addressed in Shenmue III (the floating sword getting retconned), maybe they'll dip their toes back into it for potential future instalments. Subtle but unexplained was how the first two games did it right up until II's ending, which is probably the best way to handle it in an otherwise grounded world.

I don't think there *shouldn't* be bigger moments of the mystical/supernatural btw. Shenmue II's ending is perfect in how it used the build up of the mystical elements like punctuation, with the floating sword as a big fat full stop, but they clearly got cold feet picking the story up at that point after nearly 20 years of people bugging Yu Suzuki about it haha.

In any case, it's not totally removed in Shenmue III as the warning that the player is running out of time before they get the bad ending is inherently kinda mystical. Bring back Ryo having weird dreams in Shenmue IV!
 
Fukuhara said:
We also have the Project Berkley trailer:

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Hmmm. I don't know how to word it properly...

I wouldn't rely heavily on that video too much. Think of it as more concept, and in the video gaming industry, a lot of concept stuff never ends up in the final release.
 
I don't think Yu has given up on the mystical part of Shenmue's story, which perhaps might feel more pronounced by the time we find the treasure in Shenmue 4. There are still some mystical elements that can be felt in Shenmue 3:

- Ryo tells Nozomi that his arrival at Bailu was foretold in an old prophecy.
- Shenhua describes the dreams of her past lives (?) which make her feel like she has lived for hundreds of years.
- As mentioned earlier, Elder Yeh appears in Ryo's dreams, and Lan Di can later kill Ryo in this same dreamworld.
- Shenhua's 'nipple twisting' scene with Yanlang...something more supernatural might have happened there.
- The floating Sword is now off-screen, but we still see the Phoenix Mirror magically shooting beams of energy in the cave.

Also, Shenhua keeps reciting parts of the ancient prophecy through ought the course of Shenmue 3. You'd think if they were trying to steer Shenmue into a more grounded story purely about Kung Fu that they'd duct tape Shenhua's mouth already to stop her rambling on about destiny.
 
The only thing I ever had a problem with was the floating sword. I’m not sure why, but it really rubbed me up the wrong way for whatever reason.
 
It did feel weird how we got more overt mystical moments in disc 4 of Shenmue 2 than we did in the entire third game. Shenhua was making flowers float in the air, the floating sword, the magical jolt Ryo and Shenhua got when they touched the sword at the same time, etc...

In Shenmue 3, all I can remember is dialogue options where Ryo has the ability to talk about Shenhua's ability to communicate with animals and even then, Ryo doesn't exactly seem to believe her. This is despite her doing the things I mentioned above in Shenmue 2 right in front of his face.

Yu really seems to have taken the 'by the fans, for the fans' to heart in the third game. To the point where it came at detriment to his original vision of the games. I mean, that's why we have arcade machines in Bailu village. I'm sure he was well aware of the concerns of some fans who wouldn't take too kindly to Shenmue going down a 'magical' route.
 
chaikilla said:
It did feel weird how we got more overt mystical moments in disc 4 of Shenmue 2 than we did in the entire third game. Shenhua was making flowers float in the air, the floating sword, the magical jolt Ryo and Shenhua got when they touched the sword at the same time, etc...

In Shenmue 3, all I can remember is dialogue options where Ryo has the ability to talk about Shenhua's ability to communicate with animals and even then, Ryo doesn't exactly seem to believe her. This is despite her doing the things I mentioned above in Shenmue 2 right in front of his face.

Yu really seems to have taken the 'by the fans, for the fans' to heart in the third game. To the point where it came at detriment to his original vision of the games. I mean, that's why we have arcade machines in Bailu village. I'm sure he was well aware of the concerns of some fans who wouldn't take too kindly to Shenmue going down a 'magical' route.
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I think, as you suggest, it was the physical manifestation of the mystical elements that caused problems. I kind of feel like I was always prepared for the possibility that the prophecy regarding the mirrors might be literal, but actually seeing a physical manifestation of magic in what was, at the time, one of the most realistic video game worlds ever created was really quite jarring.

It’s possible that the floating sword was retconned due to the fans’ response to it, but part of me wonders whether it might have been done for narrative purposes. Ryo would’ve needed to have spent the whole of Shenmue 3 talking about the floating sword for it to have been believable (it’s not the kind of thing that one forgets in a hurry and he’d likely want to understand how it happens. Of course, the true source of the magic surrounding Shenhua and the mirrors will need to be explored at some point, but why complicate things by canonizing a scene that was likely only added for aesthetic reasons?
 
I am not sure what to think about that matter. The the prophecy stuff is really cool. The same goes for the legends o the mirrors. But the floating swords in Shenmue 2 were a bit too much. That is the only aspect I did not like about Shenmue 2.

I also wonder if the mystic powers of Shenhua are going to be back as featured in the Projekt Berkeley Trailer



They might even had a cameo in S3 already maybe. We do not what what Shenhua did to the thug to make im talking.

I would be curious to learn more about that powers to honest even though they are as outlandish as the flying swords i do not like.

But hey I think Shenhua is somehow cool. and giving her super powers would make the mysterious girl from the countryside even cooler.
 
I love that the Shenmue series is inspired by Chinese mythology and culture.
I think that the Magic and Mystical elements in Shenmue are similar to those we See in Game of Thrones; those elements exist but they are not Over the top and they also have that feeling that they are from a by gone age and are at the break of extintion.
I also think that the series Will never take the same route of what was portrayed in the Shenmue online trailer but at the same time i believe that there are some elements of it that we Will see in the Next title's of the series.

I also think that we have to take into account that a lot of things that were considered has Magic in the past can today be scientifically explained today has well has the other way around.
So in that aspect i dont consider the floating sword and laser Beam from the Mirror to be Over the top.
What I do think is that if Yu Suzuki decides to cut them of the series that it Will be another shot on the foot for him.
 
Interesting thread Fukuhara, thanks. 😊

I have the same opinion, i want the magical/mystical elements back, the mystical elements that have relation to chinese mythology and culture is one of the interesting things about Shenmue, we had some things in Shenmue III like Revan said.

At this point i just hope that we can see this mystical elements with Shenhua, the Shenmue tree and the mirrors.

Shenhua - It is clear to me that Shenhua is different from other people and that she have powers, if Yu cut this out in Shenmue IV and V i will not like it.

The Shenmue Tree - the name of the tree is the name of the series so i really hope that the tree have some mystical elements, maybe we will see another Shenmue Tree in Louyang or other place, and i think in this place we will learn more about the Shenmue tree, Shenhua and her powers, if the tree is just a tree and nothing more then i will not like it, i will not hate it but oh well... i think i will just accept it.

The Mirrors - This is one big magical/mystical element to me, i love to imagine something big happening when the two mirrors are together, if is just money i will not like it.

The Dragon and the Phoenix - In China, the fictional dragon and the phoenix are traditional animals that symbolize auspiciousness. Along with the kylin and tortoise, they were known as the "Four Supernatural Spirits." ... During times of drought, dragons could create precious water and in times of flood they stopped the rain and cleared the skies.

The Prophecy - In Shenmue III Shenhua continue to say this words

From a distant land in the East, from across the sea,
he shall appear.
He does not know of the strength hidden within him.
The strength that would destroy him.
The strength that would fulfill his wishes.
When he is ready, he shall seek me out.
And we shall brave together the rocky path.
I shall wait...
This encounter has been my destiny since ancient times.
A Dragon shall emerge from the earth and dark clouds
shall obscure the heavens.
A Phoenix shall descend from above,
Its wings will create a purple wind.
In the midst of the pitch-black night
a morning star shall glisten... alone...

If Yu Suzuki cut every mystical elements about the series i will not like it, i don’t think it will ruin Shenmue forever to me but it is clear to me that i will not like it.

I think Yu Suzuki will not do this, i think he will not cut this mystical elements out of the future games, only time will tell.
 
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I see things transpiring a bit like an Indiana Jones film (minus Temple of Doom). Everything is mostly grounded up until the very end where something supernatural finally happens to pay the villains their comeuppance (e.g. cursed treasure).

Had the other Shenmue sequels been guaranteed on Dreamcast, I think the big WTF supernatural moment would have been reserved exclusively for Shenmue 4/5, instead of appearing more prematurely in Shenmue 2.
 
The floating sword didn't bother me. I said, "Holy shit!" and felt a strong internal pain for 20 years, wondering what on Earth was going to happen after I got out of the cave. Shame I'm no closer to knowing in 2021, after playing Shenmue III. :(
 
chaikilla said:
Yu really seems to have taken the 'by the fans, for the fans' to heart in the third game. To the point where it came at detriment to his original vision of the games. I mean, that's why we have arcade machines in Bailu village. I'm sure he was well aware of the concerns of some fans who wouldn't take too kindly to Shenmue going down a 'magical' route.
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That is my concern, I want to see Yuu and the original staff true vision not being influenced by anything. Or at least the key elements.

Revan said:
I see things transpiring a bit like an Indiana Jones film (minus Temple of Doom). Everything is mostly grounded up until the very end where something supernatural finally happens to pay the villains their comeuppance (e.g. cursed treasure).

Had the other Shenmue sequels been guaranteed on Dreamcast, I think the big WTF supernatural moment would have been reserved exclusively for Shenmue 4/5, instead of appearing more prematurely in Shenmue 2.
Click to expand...
That is exactly the comparison I was thinking those days, Indiana Jones. Shenmue have a great mistery atmosphere too, little a little the things are turning more and more mysterious and in so supernatural things just like in these movies.

I think that Yu did say that the four leaders of the Chi You Men are defending the cardinal points. My guess is those cardinal points are for call the Chi you and perhaps who is in the middle with the mirrors or in some place (Tentei?) receive his powers. For that I think that it will be a Race for Ryo and his friends, to stop the call of the Chi You defeating the bosses and liberating the cardinal points. It can be that Lan di kill Niao Sun and Tentei and call himself the Chi You.
(Perhaps the Black Dragon is the Chi You, Lan di is always represented as a black dragon)

Sorry for my english.
 
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