Question about some missing moves

[Nostalgic Hunger]

Greetings fellow friendmues.
With the new engine and changes to battle system in S3, throw moves didn't make it to the game - that much is understandable.
What I don't understand is why more complicated "story" move like Counter Elbow Assault from S2 made it into S3 in form of regular attack, but "story" relevant Swallow Dive kick - didn't.
Wouldn't it be more logical to drop several random kick scrolls, and instead implement the move Guizhang tought to Ryo?
The absence of Demon Triangle is also confusing - another "story" move that could be brought to S3 in simplified form of fingertip punch, but was dropped all together.
Would like to hear your thoughts.

 

[spud1897]

Greetings fellow friendmues.
With the new engine and changes to battle system in S3, throw moves didn't make it to the game - that much is understandable.
What I don't understand is why more complicated "story" move like Counter Elbow Assault from S2 made it into S3 in form of regular attack, but "story" relevant Swallow Dive kick - didn't.
Wouldn't it be more logical to drop several random kick scrolls, and instead implement the move Guizhang tought to Ryo?
The absense of Demon Triangle is also confusing - another "story" move that could be brought to S3 in simplified form of fingertip punch, but was dropped all together.
Would like to hear your thoughts.

Hello and welcome to the forums.

Honestly I think some of it was probably down to them forgetting the moves more than anything. I could be completely wrong and there's a technical reason for it

I can't see how, from a mo-cap perspective those moves couldn't have been in the game. Counter Elbow Assault is exactly that, a Counter and that's in.

It's a shame as I'd have thought Demons Triangle would have some significance

 

[Nostalgic Hunger]

Hello and welcome to the forums.

Honestly I think some of it was probably down to them forgetting the moves more than anything. I could be completely wrong and there's a technical reason for it

I can't see how, from a mo-cap perspective those moves couldn't have been in the game. Counter Elbow Assault is exactly that, a Counter and that's in.

It's a shame as I'd have thought Demons Triangle would have some significance

If that's the case of them forgetting, it's kind of embarrassing. Swallow Dive could be seen as the first bit of chinese martial arts legacy imparted on Ryo by his first true ally in S1. Also the scene is my favourite.
I really hope in S4 this move and the rest that were missed, will reappear in Ryo's movelist.

 

[Spaghetti]

I'm not sure it was a case of forgetting exactly, but they clearly had to make choices and cuts with Ryo's move set while rebuilding the combat, and even though it was a "story" move it seems to have been axed.

For what it's worth, the move appeared in the extended Gamescom 2017 pre-alpha video during a cutscene that didn't make the final game - so they didn't forget about that move specifically.

Demon's Triangle... might be because it was technically considered a throw move, but again, despite being a move you acquire through the main story you can't actually use it (think you can in the replayable street fights on the Xbox version, but point still stands).

 

[Nostalgic Hunger]

I'm not sure it was a case of forgetting exactly, but they clearly had to make choices and cuts with Ryo's move set while rebuilding the combat, and even though it was a "story" move it seems to have been axed.

For what it's worth, the move appeared in the extended Gamescom 2017 pre-alpha video during a cutscene that didn't make the final game - so they didn't forget about that move specifically.

Demon's Triangle... might be because it was technically considered a throw move, but again, despite being a move you acquire through the main story you can't actually use it (think you can in the replayable street fights on the Xbox version, but point still stands).

In this case more logical would have been to axe 2-3 new kicks and prioritize Swallow Dive, along with Double Blow, Elbow Assault etc.
About Gamescom footage - THAT is news to me, I'll check it.

True, Demon Triangle scroll is usable only during Langhuishan section of S2 where there's no one to fight - more the reason of wanting to finally be able to apply Tao Lishao's second parting gift during events of the 3rd game.

 

[Surge]

The only thing I can think of to justify its absence is that you have the option to decline learning Swallow Dive whereas the Counter Elbow Assault is a move where you don’t have a choice in learning it, but going by that why would Swallow Dive be cut but moves like Tornado Kick not be cut either since it was also a move you could turn down learning as well.

 

[Nostalgic Hunger]

The only thing I can think of to justify its absence is that you have the option to decline learning Swallow Dive whereas the Counter Elbow Assault is a move where you don’t have a choice in learning it, but going by that why would Swallow Dive be cut but moves like Tornado Kick not be cut either since it was also a move you could turn down learning as well.

So, canon or non-canon logic. I see the point. But as you've pointed out, there are several non-mandatory moves that did make into the game, like Tornado Kick or Double Blow from Yamagishi-san. Besides - the more the marrier.
S3 has a lot of fun moves, lots to explore, learn and train. But the absence of some iconic classic moves was always so glaring to me.

 

[Nostalgic Hunger]

Btw, if someone has a link to above mentioned Gamescom 2017 pre-alpha footage, I'd appreciate if you shared it.

 

[Surge]

So I couldn’t find an extended version of the gamescom 2017 trailer but it seems the cutscene with swallow dive is present with the sparring scene with grandmaster Bei and this scene is still present in the final game. If this isn’t the right scene then forgive me but I cannot find any extended version so far.

 

[Nostalgic Hunger]

So I couldn’t find an extended version of the gamescom 2017 trailer but it seems the cutscene with swallow dive is present with the sparring scene with grandmaster Bei and this scene is still present in the final game. If this isn’t the right scene then forgive me but I cannot find any extended version so far.

Such a wonderful teaser, always rewatch it and get goosebumps. Cheers :)
But yeah, no Swallow Dive here - just a roundhouse into heel drop (which is badass still).
If the assets exist, wander if it could be released down the road among some other moves as dlc.

 

[Nostalgic Hunger]

Found this cam footage of what seems to be the video in question.
There's a cutscene of Ryo fighting the "gorilla" thug, where Ryo performs an outward swing kick and king kong dodges it - doesn't look like Swallow Dive to me.

 

[spud1897]

Found this cam footage of what seems to be the video in question.
There's a cutscene of Ryo fighting the "gorilla" thug, where Ryo performs an outward swing kick and king kong dodges it - doesn't look like Swallow Dive to me.

On a side note, I've not watched that trailer for some time. Seeing that back and what the scenes are now, characters in them etc and the differences is really cool.

 

[Nostalgic Hunger]

On a side note, I've not watched that trailer for some time. Seeing that back and what the scenes are now, characters in them etc and the differences is really cool.

Absolutely. Hell, I'd love even these character models with their retro early 2000 vibe. But Ysnet delivered extra, and some still complain

 

[Rydeen]

Such a wonderful teaser, always rewatch it and get goosebumps. Cheers :)
But yeah, no Swallow Dive here - just a roundhouse into heel drop (which is badass still).
If the assets exist, wander if it could be released down the road among some other moves as dlc.

Sorry, don’t mean to be a jerk at all, just a pet peeve of mine: A roundhouse is almost like a front kick, except the heal of the plant foot swings forward (back of the knee rotates forward) to draw a boomerang shape with the legs. Every time I hear someone call a sweep, spin kick, 360-anything, etc, a “roundhouse,” I kind of die a little on the inside.
(The way I learned it, we were told to always return the kicking foot.)

The move in question, used against master Bei (also used in the last fight against Ge—I always get goosebumps from that choreo specifically because of that kick) is an inside-outside kick. (Also called crescent kicks.) It does differ from the Swallow Dive, in that Swallow Dive seems to be intended as a heal strike, whereas crescent kicks are primarily intended to strike with either side of the sole of the foot (depending on whether it’s inside-outside or outside-inside).

 

[orient]

Crescent kicks always remind me of the jumping double-crescent kick Jason does in the intro of Power Rangers That was the first martial arts "move" I ever learned because it looked so cool.

Roundhouse kicks are trickier than they look, especially if you're aiming for a balance of control and power. It's not too hard to strike extremely hard without control, but if you want to snap it back, maintain balance, not overcommit, or telegraph your attack, it takes a lot of practice.

 

[Nostalgic Hunger]

Sorry, don’t mean to be a jerk at all, just a pet peeve of mine: A roundhouse is almost like a front kick, except the heal of the plant foot swings forward (back of the knee rotates forward) to draw a boomerang shape with the legs. Every time I hear someone call a sweep, spin kick, 360-anything, etc, a “roundhouse,” I kind of die a little on the inside.
(The way I learned it, we were told to always return the kicking foot.)

The move in question, used against master Bei (also used in the last fight against Ge—I always get goosebumps from that choreo specifically because of that kick) is an inside-outside kick. (Also called crescent kicks.) It does differ from the Swallow Dive, in that Swallow Dive seems to be intended as a heal strike, whereas crescent kicks are primarily intended to strike with either side of the sole of the foot (depending on whether it’s inside-outside or outside-inside).

Sorry, don’t mean to be a jerk at all, just a pet peeve of mine: A roundhouse is almost like a front kick, except the heal of the plant foot swings forward (back of the knee rotates forward) to draw a boomerang shape with the legs. Every time I hear someone call a sweep, spin kick, 360-anything, etc, a “roundhouse,” I kind of die a little on the inside.
(The way I learned it, we were told to always return the kicking foot.)

The move in question, used against master Bei (also used in the last fight against Ge—I always get goosebumps from that choreo specifically because of that kick) is an inside-outside kick. (Also called crescent kicks.) It does differ from the Swallow Dive, in that Swallow Dive seems to be intended as a heal strike, whereas crescent kicks are primarily intended to strike with either side of the sole of the foot (depending on whether it’s inside-outside or outside-inside).

Then I'll try to refrain from using alien language and instead stick to more familliar one in the future.

Point was that Swallow Dive is not bandal chagi ("crescent"), but more of initial back leg high dollyo (being actual "roundhouse" in this case, as I've now learned) as bait, that morphs into lightning fast naeryeo chagi.

The hybrid nature of this kick and snappy and effortless execution of it by Guizhang Chen, always made it my favourite and use it on regular basis.

Please do educate me on any possible future blunder, as I have never thoroughly discussed martial art techniques in english before, and may use certain terms in intuitive approximation.

 

[Surge]

I always enjoyed the fast, reactionary nature of the Swallow Dive in its original form but never was a fan of its advanced form in Shenmue I. It may have been more powerful but it had to be timed out instead of the kick being instant, which I’ve tried many times to hit an opponent with that advanced form only for an enemy to get a hit in first. I’m glad that when the move carried over into Shenmue II it was one of the few that kept its original form instead of its advanced version.

 

[Nostalgic Hunger]

I always enjoyed the fast, reactionary nature of the Swallow Dive in its original form but never was a fan of its advanced form in Shenmue I. It may have been more powerful but it had to be timed out instead of the kick being instant, which I’ve tried many times to hit an opponent with that advanced form only for an enemy to get a hit in first. I’m glad that when the move carried over into Shenmue II it was one of the few that kept its original form instead of its advanced version.

I can agree that it's initial form is more iconic, and that's how I would like this move to return in next games. Maybe become faster after level up, which only reinforces it's purpose.