Random Shenmue III Thoughts

This is the random thoughts thread, so I feel like posting an old discussion, because I keep seeing the same comments on social media and various forums. So here goes...

Does anyone find it weird that there are people so desperate for a final "conclusion", that they are willing for any it to be done at any cost? I keep seeing the same comments about how Shenmue 3 should be the final game and that Yu Suzuki should essentially butcher his story to give gamers a conclusion. Do they not consider at what cost that would be? Think about all of the little fabrics of story that have weaved in and out of the two predecessors. How in God's name would they resolve everything and leave no unfinished plot strands?

I saw one guy almost claiming Yu Suzuki is either deluded or milking the fanbase and he said Yu Suzuki should have Ryo have his showdown with Lan Di, beat him and have his revenge, so fans can have their closure. Well, for one thing, if that's what you want for a finale, you just got it, because you made it up inside your head. And two, if you think all Shenmue is about and all it has been building up to is Ryo "having his revenge", killing Lan Di and walking off into the sunset, then I don't think you have really been paying attention to these games.

It just seems so bizarre to me. Getting Shenmue 3 was never about concluding the story for me (obviously I would eventually want a conclusion). We always knew Yu needed at least 4 or 5 games and sacrifices cannot be made to have 3 conclude the series.

To me, it's like those label execs telling Queen that Bohemian Rhapsody was too long for radio and needed to be cut down. Sure, you could remove some of the movements, shorten the intro, give it a more conventional verse, bridge, chorus structure, but then it wouldn't be Bohemian Rhapsody anymore and it would lose much of what makes it so special. Or could you imagine if the Lord of the Rings trilogy films weren't 3 hours a piece each? It just wouldn't work.

I can understand people wanting the game to be done in 3. People don't want to be let down by the possibility of Shenmue not continuing. These past 15 years haven't been easy. Before Shenmue 3 was announced I was coming to grips that Shenmue was this great series that just wasn't gonna be finished. I was ok with that. IMO that's one of the elements that made Shenmue this gaming powerhouse, it had this diehard cult following that banded together and pillaged and plundered Twitter the 3rd if every month????. Man it's been one hell of a ride.
 
It is important to give Yu Suzuki the chance to finish the series at his own pace. This is one of many aspects that makes Shenmue unique. Unlike many other japanese series running for many entries( like Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid) Yu-san seems to really think about the game as series and just make a game after game, with many plot holes. Nothing against RE and MGS the old Ps1 and Ps2 games of these series are great too but they have many plot holes. Suzuki San seems to be more considerate story writer than both Kojima and Mikami.

Finishing the Shenmue Saga just in the middle to please the fans that want a closure would hurt the Saga. And I personally want that Yu-san should do what he wants to do. Even if there are risks that we never the ending.
 
For the people whining that Shenmue 3 doesn't close the story either

A. They're either trolling IE; Not real fans

B. They aren't aware of the sheer volume of story content Yu has written and think he's just free wheeling it. Ignorant, but somewhat excusable

C. They don't fundamentally know how a story should flow together and think it's THAT easy to make a story coherent and flow together when you've written hundreds and hundreds of pages of content. If they don't know how much story Suzuki has written up, ignorant, but fair. If they DO know how much content Suzuki has written up then they're either trolls or have no experience with more advanced writing. Shenmue has an Epic style. Father gets killed, but has a powerful parting message. Son ignores his message and sets out for revenge. Son meets many people on his quest making him question if what he's doing is the right thing and honoring his father's final words and the teachings of the friends and people he's met... In the end the son decides too??? Usually these stories are pretty long with the character going through many interpersonal changes. It ain't easy to just wrap up this kind of plot telling device.

If anyone thinks about logically it would make sense. Rarely it works out where an ending is rushed and it works for the better. Most of the time it leaves people filling pissed off and unfulfilled... Game of Thrones, Evangelion, Slam Dunk, Bleach, etc,etc... Evangelion might be the best case in there because it forced people to really examine the themes and look under a microscope THAT much harder, but again I can't remember many times where rushing something just to wrap it up worked for the better.

D. Probably more rare, but they're fans of the game and somehow fear it going on hiatus again.
 
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Closure for closure's sake would be such an awful way to end all this, for both fans and Yu Suzuki.

I can't possibly believe there are people who care so deeply about Shenmue's story they're desperate for it to be concluded... but at the expense of any authorial intent and a carefully laid plan 20+ years in the making. They feel like completely contradictory positions to hold, in my view.
 
In my opinion, the reason people want Shenmue 3 to end the story is out of fear. Twenty years is a long time to wait for another chapter in the series. However there's been this fear that if Shenmue 3 doesn't sell well that we'll never get any closure. The Epic controversy only amplified this fear by putting the series in an even more precarious position then it was in before. On top of that, Yu Suzuki isn't going to live forever and neither are the fans who are waiting. That's why in their eyes it's far safer to end the series here. If it comprises the story then so be it.

I don't subscribe to this view because Suzuki has stated that the story will continue on in another media format if Shenmue 3 fails. Also I find it contradictory since one of the reasons we all love Shenmue is because of its story. Having an abridged version of this story would hurt the Shenmue brand immensely. Rushed pacing would produce plot holes and stunt character development. I think this type of mentality while understandable, is selfish and destructive. If Shenmue 3 ultimately goes down, I want it to be through a bang not a whimper. That's ultimately why we need to support this franchise with everything we've got.
 
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Other games we might see in the arcade?
Hope so. I'm totally sold on mechanical games playing a bigger part in Shenmue III's arcades, and possibly in future installments too.

I buy the in-game justifications that battered and refurbed mechanical games are just a fraction more realistic for 1980s rural China, but there's also kind of a... meta reasoning. Playing Yu-san's old arcade games is old hat at this point; we did it in the originals, they've enjoyed multiple re-releases since the Dreamcast days, and Yakuza has cribbed the party trick for themselves.

The mechanical games feels like a way to freshen things up, and turn the arcades back into a unique selling point for Shenmue.

Not saying I wouldn't want to see Power Drift show up once Shenmue's timeline is somewhere into 1988, but IMO they should double down on building ersatz versions of old mechanical arcade games in Shenmue IV.
 
Some people think they want the conclusion to the story, but what they really mean is they want Ryo vs Lan Di, the final showdown. In that regard, who knows, maybe Shenmue III will satisfy them.

It's the scope of the work they don't understand. We have no idea what's in store beyond Ryo taking/not taking revenge, so to demand the conclusion in this game is a bizarre stance to take. It shows little to no understanding of storytelling, creating a compelling narrative etc. It's not about the ending but how you get there, and if you can't enjoy the journey then what's the point?
 
Just to clarify that post about the mechanical games. I saw the image retweeted on my Twitter, but it wasn’t from an account associated with Shenmue (though I believe Sega of Japan retweeted it). The image jumped out at me, though, because I thought I was looking at Shenmue 3 shots!
 
In a deeper meta-narrative sense, This is a digital preservation of a dying mechanical arcade coin-ops brand of games. Seeing as these are based on real-life arcade games Yu have experienced Irl. Just like the locale/settings of the game are based on boots on the ground research and digitizing it; therefore, indirectly preserving it's likeness forever even if places like Kowloon are torn down and gone forever in the real world.

Shenmue is the only "one of a kind" AAA series I've seen taken such a great attention to detail to digitally preserve many cultural works of art.
 
Shenmue 4 should be the 5 or 6 games yu plans on doing rolled into one massive game, no short cuts etc etc.
Because Like Brucewayne, am a little worried about that myself or the possibility of the saga not being completed due to the same problem as before.

With that said, I am optimistic that it will be completed... but s*** happens.
 
I'm not at all about closure to the "Ryo vs. LAN Di" story ark. We've known for decades that Lan Di is only one of four "division leaders" of the Chiyoumen and that Ryo's "destiny predetermined since ancient times" taking down the entire Chiyoumen and not just their "Eastern Division".

I want closure to the whole thing, not just a part of it. Do I want Yu to rush to the end? No, definitely not. But keeping it to four or five games in total instead of six or more may not be the worst idea considering Yu's age and also the series' bumpy history.

I just hope that even though Shenmue is a work of art, Yu should think very economically when it comes to continuing Shenmue beyond S3.
 
Ideally 3 has good sales and some major publisher (Hopefully Sega) buys YS Net, and we can breathe a sigh of relief for a bit at least.

The heavy lifting to make 4 is done. They can touch up and improve whatever they have to where needed for 4. A bit more money to play with wouldn't hurt to knock out some of the minor complaints like graphics, and to improve upon the physics & animations for combat, mini-games, etc.
 
I think the Shenmue Story is much deeper than just the revenge theme. Ryo is not your average revenge type Action Hero in my humble opinion. I am not sure if he was what it takes to really kill Lan Di.

He might be obsessed with that topic but I do not think that taking revenge is his fate. At least not the killing part in the vengeance narrative.

I think Ryo is not cold blooded enough . He refuses to buy weapons in Shenmue 2 when he is was talking to the arms dealer.

He spared the live of the chick with the Cowboy hat (sorry Forget her Name) in the Arena fight at the end of Disc 3. Although this chick would not hesitate to kill himself if he would lose the fight.

Ryo is not that simple character I think. Hard to predict how he will react when he finally beats Lan Di. But if you consider the behavior of Ryo in S2 I do not think he is that cold blooded but we have to wait and see.
 
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I think the Shenmue Story is much deeper than just the revange theme. Ryo is not your average revange type Action Hero in my humble opinion. I am not sure if he was what it takes to really kill Lan Di.

He might be obsessed with that topic but I do not think that taking revange is his fate. At least not the killing part in the avengeance narrativ.

I think Ryo is not cold blooded enough . He refuses to buy weapons in Shenmue 2 when he is was talking to the arms dealer.

He spared the live of the chick with the Cowboy hat (sorry Forget her Name) in the Arena fight at the end of Disc 3. Although this chick would not hesitate to kill himself if he would lose the fight.

Ryo is not that simple character I think. Hard to predict how he will react when he finally beats Lan Di. But if you consider the behavior of Ryo in S2 I do not think he is that cold blooded but we have to wait and see.


A video to help compliment your point. Shenmue is a modern Wuxia Epic incorporated with magic realism. As a cultural work of art, it's never as cut and dry as your typical throw away entertainment.

 
Spoke to my two brothers yesterday (who both backed the Kickstarter) about the Gamescom trailer. They've both been fairly negative about the project and generally disparaging about all of the media that has been released prior to the recent conference.

Yesterday was the first time I've heard them speak about Shenmue III in a positive light for a long while. While they both said it looked somewhat dated, they said it was undeniably Shenmue and are now actually genuinely looking forward to playing it.

They were also unaware of the Epic controversy, which is probably more representative of how the general public feels than some of the online communities which focus on the issue so heavily.
 
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