Random Shenmue III Thoughts

My issue with the game is that it's trying to emulate a Shenmue experience instead of trying to be its own thing. It's like there was a big "Shenmue" checklist that was about "Side activities" "Gacha" "Arcade" "Shops" and such. The disappointment doesn't come either from a lack of answer and more of like what the game is offering.

I understand where this is coming from, and I can't say I disagree about some of your criticism. In fact, I admit the writing is lacking and most of the characters have been under-developed.

What I disagree with though, is your analysis of the "side activities" and "the game trying to emulate the Shenmue experience."
In my opinion, it's not an emulation. It's Yu Suzuki's evolved vision of the Shenmue experience. What he tried and mostly succeeded to build, is a coherent and interconnected world, to some extent, a daily life simulator. And it's probably the most interconnected world I've ever played with Niaowu being the most dense location of any video game coming to mind. With a better writing and a better use of the many characters encountered throughout the game, not to mention more memorable fights that matter, it would have been (again, in my opinion) one of the best game ever made.
 
I understand where this is coming from, and I can't say I disagree about some of your criticism. In fact, I admit the writing is lacking and most of the characters have been under-developed.

What I disagree with though, is your analysis of the "side activities" and "the game trying to emulate the Shenmue experience."
In my opinion, it's not an emulation. It's Yu Suzuki's evolved vision of the Shenmue experience. What he tried and mostly succeeded to build, is a coherent and interconnected world, to some extent, a daily life simulator. And it's probably the most interconnected world I've ever played with Niaowu being the most dense location of any video game coming to mind. With a better writing and a better use of the many characters encountered throughout the game, not to mention more memorable fights that matter, it would have been (again, in my opinion) one of the best game ever made.


Well, I should rephrase my point: For the budget they had, I feel like they spent too much time trying to make it a "full Shenmue experience" at the expense of other areas. Basically, I feel like the team was hostage to the fans nostalgia and that they felt that, if the Forklift, gacha or stuff like this didn't return, they'd get a huge backlash.

That's what I mean by "trying to emulate" a Shenmue experience. It basically felt like someone who never played the serie trying to sum up Shenmue with limited knowledge. "Ah yes, it's that game with gacha, arcades, side activities and where you can buy drinks !". The problem is, I don't feel like every areas should've had these. Like Bailu for instance.
 
In fairness, none of us can begin to imagine the pressure Yu Suzuki was under to deliver a game that fans had waited for, for all this time. For better or worse, he put content in the game based on the belief that's what the fans wanted. We wanted a Shenmue game, and he made a Shenmue game.
 
I'll disagree here. I'm not disappointed by "what the game could've been" but specifically on what the game is.
My issue with the game is that it's trying to emulate a Shenmue experience instead of trying to be its own thing. It's like there was a big "Shenmue" checklist that was about "Side activites" "Gacha" "Arcade" "Shops" and such. The disappointment doesn't come either from a lack of answer and more of like what the game is offering.

As many said already, first of all, the game structure isn't only bad, it's repetitive. Basically, both villages are "Find the thugs and beat their boss" filled in between with side activities and jobs. It's not very interesting. As the setting itself, while Bailu is a charming village... It's also a disappointment because it feels like it was rewrote for gameplay reasons. From a mysterious, lost in the woods, mystical village comes your average village, with average villagers. For a closed community, it's very modern. They even have arcades and gacha.

The character casting is also very forgettable. And underdevelopped. From my Shenmue 3 playthrough, I retained no particular fond memory. I felt like playing a filler episode. The story itself, I never cared about it. I mean, I know Shenmue won't have an amazing story. It never did. But it was an amazing journey. A charming and touching one at that. Because of it's wealthy character cast. Because of it's interesting structure. Shenmue I and II and felt an authentic journey. Shenmue III felt like an artificial trip. I don't think it's a bad game. I don't think it's a good game either. And that's because I'm focusing on what it is and what it is doing.
I’m sorry, but both of the first two games were effectively made up of 2 ‘find the thugs and beat their boss’ sections (with S3 obviously having the Guilin section tacked on at the end). In S1 we had to beat the sailors to get to Charlie and then beat Charlie to progress the game, whilst in S2’s Wan Chai section we had to beat the heavens to get to Ren. In S1 we had to beat the Mad Angels at the harbor to get to Terry and in S2’s Kowloon we had to beat the street fighters to get to Diou Niu. Undoubtedly, the narrative that guided these story threads was stronger in the first two games, but ultimately the structure and pacing of Shenmue 3 is very much in keeping with the first two games.

As for the idea of them following a ‘Shenmue checklist’, I don’t see how the same couldn’t be said of S2. Sure it added new elements, mechanics and features (street fighting, time skip, pawn shops, etc), but Shenmue 3 also added new mechanics (stamina, training, fishing, herb picking, etc). Sure some of these mechanics weren’t executed as well as they could have been (I’m specifically referring to the stamina system here), but criticizing the game for trying to be like the first two games in the series seems a little harsh. If they’d taken away all of the things fans associate with Shenmue, I’m sure the fan reaction would have been a lot worse.

The poor writing and lack of character development is a fair criticism and easily my main issue with the game. Even so, it did shine in some places (Ryo and Shenhua’s nightly conversations spring to mind) and this ultimately wasn’t enough to stop me enjoying my time with the game. I don’t think it came close to the lofty heights of S2, but the experience was good enough for me. It felt like I was playing Shenmue and that’s what I wanted after waiting 18 years.
 
After watching some SIII review vids, someone said the phrase "Shentard".

Shentard and proud tbh
Is it the video where the still is Ryo being flushed down the toilet? That dude seems a little touched.
 
And it's probably the most interconnected world I've ever played with Niaowu being the most dense location of any video game coming to mind.
I understand the critiques of Niaowu from a "repeating story beats" and lack of NPC density perspective, but the city itself from a gameplay, density, detail, etc point of view is just criminally underrated by the industry at large
 
I don't like Niaowu very much. It feels like endless & mazelike corridors of shops that serve very little purpose. The lack of NPCs or interactivity really weaken the experience. All the areas where you're forced to slow down (I know it's because of asset loading or whatever you call it) make it even more laborious to work my way through. Def. my least favorite area in any Shenmue game. There's also something very unnatural about the way the whole area is laid out. For instance, you've got this MASSIVE arcade right next to a dojo where guys are training 24/7. Really!?
 
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Each area of Niaowu has a martial arts shop and fruit/veggie stand if not also pawnshop or herbs exchange. Plus two big arcades and fighting arenas. The rest of the useless shops are good for information/directions since the civilian NPCs don't speak--a very smart budget cut, btw. Despite the budget, I'm happily surprised they're in-between Shen1 and Shen2 NPC routines. Rather than going easy/cheaper route of looping pedestrians with no work or homes like in Hong Kong. I digress. Point being, Choubu seems pretty useful to me, not to mention the random little shops with the old mechanical games.

Haters gonna hate. Too cool for school, these cats.
 
Dunno how that makes me a hater, but ok. I can't force myself to like things. I find the whole area weak compared to any other area in a Shenmue game. It just feels off to me.
 
Wasn't for you only, hence not a direct quote. You're not the only person nitpicking with a fine tooth comb.
 
I don't find the economy engaging, which is why I painted the shops with such a broad brush. I just don't get much pleasure out of walking into a shop and purchasing 1 of every item so I can walk to another area and sell everything. The interiors of the shops even kind of look alike, which also detracts. I am not sure how they could make this more engaging, but I feel like it's both overwhelming and underwhelming at the same time. The arcades are ok, but they pretty much all have the same games I'd already played in Bailu. Perhaps they should've cut the arcade games from Bailu. The fact you win tickets you can only use in Niaowu makes the arcade in Bailu even more bizarre. I didn't find the games so enjoyable that I wanted to play them four times in different areas. I understand why they couldn't make 10 more new games, but that also detracted from my enjoyment of the Niaowu "activities." Instead of reusing the same games and types of shops throughout, they could've considered making Niaowu smaller.
 
It's what the fans wanted...

I mentioned it before; they spent tons too much time on fanservice because the (vocal and annoying) fans were the ones who wanted all the extra crap; I 100% guarantee if like half the fanbase flat-out said at Kickstarter time, that they did NOT want all of the fanservice stuff in-game, I'd think that YS Net wouldn't changed some things around.
 
I believe they had to have had an intensely hard time figuring out the type of game to make and any decision or cut would've upset some segment of the fan base. I totally get that. I hope they're able to take a chance at some risks and new if they get the opportunity at making a fourth game, now that they've "resettled" the fans.
 
In all honesty, I don't remember a single one of us that were elated over the in-game fanservice rewards and all that and the majority of us are still of that stance to this day.

Like voting for what mini-games to put in the game; WTF did people not want darts?
 
Ryan Payton apparently urged for more fanservice IIRC? Originally Yu wanted to do a 70/30 ratio. Admittedly, I'd like to see 70/30 in Shen4, but I still adore the 50/50 we ended up with in final Shen3.
 
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