Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Hoping Yu Suzuki has mentored a new generation of programmers from Japan and the West...!
 

Anyone seen this? It's relatively new -- I randomly came across it today.

I found most of the criticisms to be fair even though I don't necessarily agree with them (there's definitely some flimsy comparisons in there)...

...but then came the gameplay section, where he basically says the Shenmue formula of exploring and gathering information should've been scrapped in favour of a more modern open-world structure -- and even just copy the way (you guessed it) Yakuza does it.

Call me old-fashioned, or a fanboy or whatever, but when hoping for Shenmue III all these years, I wanted it because I like the gameplay. I like exploring, investigating, asking questions. I like that you aren't getting into random brawls every five minutes. It's slow-paced and unique, and it might not be what the average core gamer wants from an open-world game, but it's what I want. When I backed Shenmue III I didn't once think "I hope they 'modernise' the quest structure or make it more like Yakuza" (because we don't have enough of those, apparently).

So yeah, after sitting through 27 minutes of why Shenmue III's bad, with only a couple of positives thrown in, that was my main takeaway from it.
 
Didn't watch the review but this kind of argument is always irritating to hear.

However, I would have exchanged the "modernization" for some sort of evolution to make the investigation part more interesting, allow the player more creativity in his reasoning and encourage him not to randomly ask folks.

I believe random asking is the main reason why some players feel bored because they don't get the challenge of the game and barely stress their brain. They don't think "Where is the place I am most likely to meet that guy, according the clues I have about him?". They rather think "Where is the point on the map to trigger the gameplay phase" without being ever aware that the gameplay is actually proceeding.

Shenmue 2 introduced multiple choice interface in discussion with NPCs, meaning it gave the player the choice to select the clue he wants to develop. If not, it meant some sort of crossing quests.

Shenmue 3 was rather a downgrade in that regard as the investigation felt more linear and I think money could have been better spent there to improve the system or give it more variations.

Quests such as the Buddha searching, the stonemason house or finding the rare alcohol were qualitative but the more classic investigation phases were less interesting than usual since Bailu suffered from its little size and Niaowu from its linear urbanism.

Shenmue has to remain Shenmue but Suzuki has always been an innovator. Getting the very same mechanics seem out of the character he is.

For SIII, Suzuki had the idea of "confidence system" or something like that. The more you get affinity with the folks, the more you are able to get information and beyond. It could have given the investigation another interesting dimension.

Unfortunately, the only application of this idea is the very beginning of the game and it felt very rough. Considering the volume he spoke about the concept in his interviews, it's certain he was initially more ambitious about the way Ryo has to interact with the village to progress.

It would be interesting to know if we are finally getting substantial gameplay improvements in Shenmue 4 but I doubt that since ending the story is likely the desperate priority now.
 
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Didn't watch the review but this kind of argument is always irritating to hear.

However, I would have exchanged the "modernization" for some sort of evolution to make the investigation part more interesting, allow the player more creativity in his reasoning and encourage him not to randomly ask folks.

I believe random asking is the main reason why some players feel bored because they don't get the challenge of the game and barely stress their brain. They don't think "Where the place I am most likely to meet that guy, according the clues I have about him?". They rather think "Where is the point on the map to trigger the gameplay phase" without being ever aware that the gameplay is actually proceeding.

Shenmue 2 introduced multiple choice interface in discussion with NPCs, meaning it gave the player the choice to select the clue he wants to develop. If not, it meant some sort of crossing quests.

Shenmue 3 was rather a downgrade in that regard as the investigation felt more linear and I think money could have been better spent there to improve the system or give it more variations.

Quests such as the Buddha searching, the stonemason house or finding the rare alcohol were qualitative but the more classic investigation phases were less interesting than usual since Bailu suffered from its little size and Niaowu from its linear urbanism.

Shenmue has to remain Shenmue but Suzuki has always been an innovator. Getting the very same mechanics seem out of the character he is.

For SIII, Suzuki had the idea of "confidence system" or something like that. The more you get affinity with the folks, the more you are able to get information and beyond. It could have given the investigation another interesting dimension.

Unfortunately, the only application of this idea is the very beginning of the game and it felt very rough. Considering the volume he spoke about the concept in his interviews, it's certain he was initially more ambitious about the way Ryo has to interact with the village to progress.

It would be interesting to know if we are finally getting substantial gameplay improvements in Shenmue 4 but I doubt that since ending the story is likely the desperate priority now.



I watched the review and save for the point about Yakuza, it felt fairly on point. It actually tackles one interesting aspect you mentionned:

In Shenmue II, you have that scene with Shenhua singing. It's a cutscene well directed but also has a player input in which you can either interrupt her or keep listening to her as the cutscene unfold. But it's also a cutscene that serves to not only characterize both characters and add depth to their relationship, it also serves a purpose to talk more about the game world and Guilin.

In Shenmue III you have a similar scene... Which doesn't feature the same interactivity and has no purpose because of how short it is and how straightforward it is. Ryo interrupts Shenhua who's wondering if her father is fine and Ryo cut her, saying I'm sure he is.
 
In Shenmue III you have a similar scene... Which doesn't feature the same interactivity and has no purpose because of how short it is and how straightforward it is. Ryo interrupts Shenhua who's wondering if her father is fine and Ryo cut her, saying I'm sure he is.

The question is… was that cutscene in Niaowu best left out or is it a cool nod to Shenmue II to actually have it in Shenmue III?
As far as I'm concerned, I'm glad the cutscene is there.

When you say it has no purpose, maybe it simply shows how much Shenhua is missing home at that moment?
 
However, I would have exchanged the "modernization" for some sort of evolution to make the investigation part more interesting, allow the player more creativity in his reasoning and encourage him not to randomly ask folks.
I agree, but I actually think the first game did it best. To me it felt like the game with the most real-world logic and deduction, and less guesswork. Getting to know the environments and people gave you the knowledge to better and more efficiently "solve" the quest. Like, oh I know my friend owns a motorcycle because I've seen him polishing it out the front of his house multiple times -- I bet I can ask him to borrow it to so I can quickly get to the harbour.

SIII does feature several points where you can choose from multiple options similar to SII, which is nice when it happens. In SII you have more options because you can always ask about money, etc.

In Shenmue III you have a similar scene... Which doesn't feature the same interactivity and has no purpose because of how short it is and how straightforward it is. Ryo interrupts Shenhua who's wondering if her father is fine and Ryo cut her, saying I'm sure he is.
Yeah, but you also can't just do the exact same scene you've already done in the previous game. The video conveniently ignores the fact that Shenhua opens up to Ryo a lot in Bailu, and specifically about her Father. I know it drops off in Niaowu but you can still talk to her almost every night.
 

Anyone seen this? It's relatively new -- I randomly came across it today.

I found most of the criticisms to be fair even though I don't necessarily agree with them (there's definitely some flimsy comparisons in there)...

...but then came the gameplay section, where he basically says the Shenmue formula of exploring and gathering information should've been scrapped in favour of a more modern open-world structure -- and even just copy the way (you guessed it) Yakuza does it.

Call me old-fashioned, or a fanboy or whatever, but when hoping for Shenmue III all these years, I wanted it because I like the gameplay. I like exploring, investigating, asking questions. I like that you aren't getting into random brawls every five minutes. It's slow-paced and unique, and it might not be what the average core gamer wants from an open-world game, but it's what I want. When I backed Shenmue III I didn't once think "I hope they 'modernise' the quest structure or make it more like Yakuza" (because we don't have enough of those, apparently).

So yeah, after sitting through 27 minutes of why Shenmue III's bad, with only a couple of positives thrown in, that was my main takeaway from it.
I basically only ever watch critique videos of nintendo games because I'm a hater and know I'll never play them. 👍
 
I don't think Shenmue should become Yakuza, but I'd be lying if I said there aren't many elements in Yakuza games I wouldn't mind seeing in a new Shenmue game. Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing a couple Shenmue features in a Yakuza game either. That's why we need YAKUZA 0.5: Nagai Industries.

The big thing for me, and this might be a bit heretical or against the spirit of Shenmue, is the completion list. It'd make tracking side content so much easier. Shenmue IS a game, and I think there's an argument for some QOL advancements even if they're too "gamey." I also think the Dragon Engine appears superior to UE4 based on how the cities in the games look, especially with regard to pedestrians and transitions into/out of buildings.
 
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I asked this in the impressions topic but no one answered so I'll try here. This topic seems more active.

When you get to the pier of the castle, you meet a shop keeper who asks you to find 3 items. Did I miss something that made that relevant or was it completely random?
 
I asked this in the impressions topic but no one answered so I'll try here. This topic seems more active.

When you get to the pier of the castle, you meet a shop keeper who asks you to find 3 items. Did I miss something that made that relevant or was it completely random?
It's random. I get the impression it was supposed to be part of something larger (obviously cut) but for whatever reason they left it in. You do get a snake tonic from it so that's good.
 
I asked this in the impressions topic but no one answered so I'll try here. This topic seems more active.

When you get to the pier of the castle, you meet a shop keeper who asks you to find 3 items. Did I miss something that made that relevant or was it completely random?
I think it is the "Baisha Additional Sidequest" stretch goal. They had to put something cheap and simple in their to tick it off the list.
 

Anyone seen this? It's relatively new -- I randomly came across it today.

I found most of the criticisms to be fair even though I don't necessarily agree with them (there's definitely some flimsy comparisons in there)...

...but then came the gameplay section, where he basically says the Shenmue formula of exploring and gathering information should've been scrapped in favour of a more modern open-world structure -- and even just copy the way (you guessed it) Yakuza does it.

Call me old-fashioned, or a fanboy or whatever, but when hoping for Shenmue III all these years, I wanted it because I like the gameplay. I like exploring, investigating, asking questions. I like that you aren't getting into random brawls every five minutes. It's slow-paced and unique, and it might not be what the average core gamer wants from an open-world game, but it's what I want. When I backed Shenmue III I didn't once think "I hope they 'modernise' the quest structure or make it more like Yakuza" (because we don't have enough of those, apparently).

So yeah, after sitting through 27 minutes of why Shenmue III's bad, with only a couple of positives thrown in, that was my main takeaway from it.

I watched the video and it honestly felt like the same generic criticisms towards Shenmue III that have been made before. Which really just boils down to the series not being modern enough. Suzuki has explained in the past about the inconsistent character design. About how he had staff who could create more realistic Asian models and those who were better at "Disney" models. He had to create a happy medium between the two by blending them together. For me, this is something I understand and am willing to forgive. Then he uses the infamous and rather redundant Hellblade fallacy. I bet Suzuki could've made Shenmue III look like Hellblade too if he had cut corners and reduced the scale of the game.

When it comes to gameplay, monotony has always been apart of the experience. Martial arts training has always been filled with constant repetition. I agree there should've been more variety and/or depth to the training sessions, but that was mostly due to budget and not focusing purely on the combat system. Though I find it kind of silly when he complains about Ryo's enemies blocking his attacks. As if in the first two games you didn't have enemies constantly poking you out of doing your fancier moves.

The stamina system is not something I took issue with. Having Ryo become exhausted is quite realistic. Also adding an eating element into Shenmue makes sense since a good diet is crucial for any martial artist. I just wish it was implemented better or was more in-depth.

I agree with him about the story, lack of character development, and rushed pacing. However, I have to disagree with his opinion on the Lan-Di battle. I mean realistically, how did you think that was going to go? How has anything in this story indicated that Ryo is a match for Longsun Zhao? If anything, I'd find it unrealistic to see Ryo hold his own when he couldn't even land a blow against Xiuying.

Finally, I disagree with him that someone else should be given the reigns over Shenmue's story. If we've been captivated this long by the first two games that were written by Suzuki, why let one misstep change that? To me, Shenmue III is the weakest entry in the series and deserves to be criticized. However, this review is once again missing context and should've expected that some things were going to be on the cheaper side.
 
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The big thing for me, and this might be a bit heretical or against the spirit of Shenmue, is the completion list. It'd make tracking side content so much easier. Shenmue IS a game, and I think there's an argument for some QOL advancements even if they're too "gamey." I also think the Dragon Engine appears superior to UE4 based on how the cities in the games look, especially with regard to pedestrians and transitions into/out of buildings.
I'm definitely not against QoL improvements. The side-quest tab in the notebook was a good compromise, but I wouldn't mind if they had a sort of "side-quest index page", where you could see them all, click on the name to skip to the relevant page etc. It'd be more of a nice-to-have, though, because there weren't really enough side-quests going at one time for it to become a big issue.

I mean, people were worried about the characters' names popping up down the bottom before the game came out, saying it'd ruin exploration (I may have even been one of them, can't remember now), but in reality in makes very little difference. You have to be right in front of them to see it, and it helps you find the person you're looking for without clicking on a bunch of random NPCs (unless you want to), which is actually pretty handy.
 
So I started my second playthrough and one thing Shenhua said to Ryo stuck out to me...
Ryo asks if Shenhua's father said anything to her before he left.
Shenhua replies, "Now that I think about it, he turned back to look at me several times as he headed for the cave. Maybe he had a feeling he wouldn't be coming back."

GAH There's still so much we need to know! I hope that talk with him on the boat is shown again at the beginning of shenmue 4, but expanded upon.
 
So I started my second playthrough and one thing Shenhua said to Ryo stuck out to me...
Ryo asks if Shenhua's father said anything to her before he left.
Shenhua replies, "Now that I think about it, he turned back to look at me several times as he headed for the cave. Maybe he had a feeling he wouldn't be coming back."

GAH There's still so much we need to know! I hope that talk with him on the boat is shown again at the beginning of shenmue 4, but expanded upon.
They could also have Ryo and Shenhua discuss Yuan and any revelations they discovered during their trek towards the cliff temple at the very beginning...then Ren could interject/cut them off at certain points, "Who cares! Just tell me where to find that sweet, sweet treasure!" That'd make it more entertaining than the beginning of III.
 
I do wonder what's going on at YS Net. It's been about five months since release, over a month since the final DLC...if IV hasn't been greenlit (and it sounds like it hasn't based on Cedric's Q&A) then most of the staff must've moved on to other things. I bet most of the people who worked at YS Net were contracted for SIII only, not to mention the whole coronavirus thing.

The only other scenarios I can think of that would've stopped the team from disbanding by now is they've got contract work (making other people's games doesn't seem very Yu Suzuki, but you never know), or they're working on an Xbox port/preparing Steam features.

Unless I'm mistaken, we haven't seen inside YS Net, or had any real interviews or word from YS -- even just talking about the reception of SIII -- since release really?
 
Unless I'm mistaken, we haven't seen inside YS Net, or had any real interviews or word from YS -- even just talking about the reception of SIII -- since release really?

I’m pretty sure that’s correct. Shame as I would be interested in a postmortem interview with Suzuki since release of Shenmue 3.
 
I do wonder what's going on at YS Net. It's been about five months since release, over a month since the final DLC...if IV hasn't been greenlit (and it sounds like it hasn't based on Cedric's Q&A) then most of the staff must've moved on to other things. I bet most of the people who worked at YS Net were contracted for SIII only, not to mention the whole coronavirus thing.

The only other scenarios I can think of that would've stopped the team from disbanding by now is they've got contract work (making other people's games doesn't seem very Yu Suzuki, but you never know), or they're working on an Xbox port/preparing Steam features.

Unless I'm mistaken, we haven't seen inside YS Net, or had any real interviews or word from YS -- even just talking about the reception of SIII -- since release really?


Steam features were ready a while ago. And it doesn't take much time.

An Xbox Port ? Maybe. I wouldn't bet on it though. Someone has to fund it.
 
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