Random Shenmue IV Thoughts.

spud1897 said:
They got their information from my interview! Love this
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Nice to see a positive mention for a change.

I kept seeing some youtube videos, complain about Shenmue 3's "cliffhanger" (none of the fans expected it to end the series) or it plays "just like the really old ones" (when 2 is such a different game, with its more open world and different battle system) It looked like some publications hadn't play the games and just wanted to make generic, thoughtless criticisms, to be part of the bandwagon.
 
We are beginning to turn the corner on this pandemic in the United States(though it'll still be at least 2 or 3 more months), so I'd say the only real likelihood to see it announced is late this year or next.

I'm about 90% confident it will happen. It's been proven time and again that gamers still want Shenmue as a series to be completed, even with Shenmue III bring a bit divisive and with a rough KS campaign.

Worth noting that Richard Donner(at 91) will be stepping back behind the camera for Lethal Weapon 5 alongside Gibson and Glover. As he put it "I made the series, so it's fitting I close it out my way before I'm done"

I think Yu will go out a similar way. So I feel IV will happen.
 
If I ever end up rich, I would use my fortune for several things. First, I would write Yu Suzuki a blank check for the Shenmue series. This would include remakes of all three games and any further games needed to complete the series. I wouldn't even care if I get a return on my investment as more Shenmue with the highest level of quality is reward enough for me. The only condition is that Suzuki must use the Virtua Fighter engine for the combat.

Second, I would move somewhere remote and quiet like Bailu. One of my favorite elements of Shenmue is the quieter contemplative moments. When I am walking through the mountains with Shenhua, practicing Tai Chi, or training I feel a sense of tranquility.

Finally, I would have a house built that is a replica of the Hazuki home complete with the dojo. I love traditional Japanese houses especially knowing that the Hazuki home was once the home of an ancient temple.
 
I do hope we at least get an S4 tease of some kind before 2021 is up, mainly so I can just calm my tits already during this tense time when Shenmue's future now seems to hinge on these publisher pitches.

2019: Shenmue 3
2020: DLC, Complete Edition, OSTs, Anime
2021: Blank screen with a "4" on it

That would be enough for me.
 
Is it time for Shenmue to abandon its VF roots when it comes to the fighting system and adopt a more brawler based system?

I've been thinking about things they could do for the battle system in the next game. The biggest concern I had even with the original 2 games was the move list and just how big it was gonna get as the series progressed. There are only a certain amount of face button combinations and both Shenmue II and III ran into this issue by having you switch out moves to said combinations. If IV brings back true parries and throws, do you think it's time they should simplify it even further and maybe abandon the VF roots by overhauling it to a much more accessible combat system? SIII felt somewhere between wanting to be like the old games but also more simplified and it just got me thinking how they could flesh it out more.

To give a better idea of what I mean, I was playing Yakuza 6 earlier on PC and parrying people with the L1 button pulling off heat moves while parrying and it just got me to thinking...since Shenmue III abandoned directional inputs for moves and went for something halfway between a brawler and the old games, how would they implement parries and counters without overloading the combinations? We don't have directional buttons anymore since the system now just uses the analog stick for full 3D movement so I wonder how that stuff is gonna work? Maybe going forward you set a specific parry or counter to a shoulder button type thing but give you different variants to play with?

Is it time they abandon the VF roots of the combat system and go for something a little bit simpler all around or can they make it work with the current system? SIII's combat really felt somewhere between the old games and a brawler to me...but I have been wondering what they could do to further refine it going forward? As it is now it's kind of a dial a move system as I've been referring to it, but I just wonder...

I'd be sad to see the old methods go as I always liked the first two games combat systems (idealistically I would love to have those back and further refined), but yeah, I do wonder what refinements they could make bringing in parries, counters and throws and make them accessible with a controller setup that doesn't use the Dpad anymore.
 
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danielmann861 said:
Is it time for Shenmue to abandon its VF roots when it comes to the fighting system and adopt a more brawler based system?

I've been thinking about things they could do for the battle system in the next game. The biggest concern I had even with the original 2 games was the move list and just how big it was gonna get as the series progressed. There are only a certain amount of face button combinations and both Shenmue II and III ran into this issue by having you switch out moves to said combinations. If IV brings back true parries and throws, do you think it's time they should simplify it even further and maybe abandon the VF roots by overhauling it to a much more accessible combat system? SIII felt somewhere between wanting to be like the old games but also more simplified and it just got me thinking how they could flesh it out more.

To give a better idea of what I mean, I was playing Yakuza 6 earlier on PC and parrying people with the L1 button pulling off heat moves while parrying and it just got me to thinking...since Shenmue III abandoned directional inputs for moves and went for something halfway between a brawler and the old games, how would they implement parries and counters without overloading the combinations? We don't have directional buttons anymore since the system now just uses the analog stick for full 3D movement so I wonder how that stuff is gonna work? Maybe going forward you set a specific parry or counter to a shoulder button type thing but give you different variants to play with?

Is it time they abandon the VF roots of the combat system and go for something a little bit simpler all around or can they make it work with the current system? SIII's combat really felt somewhere between the old games and a brawler to me...but I have been wondering what they could do to further refine it going forward? As it is now it's kind of a dial a move system as I've been referring to it, but I just wonder...

I'd be sad to see the old methods go as I always liked the first two games combat systems (idealistically I would love to have those back and further refined), but yeah, I do wonder what refinements they could make bringing in parries, counters and throws and make them accessible with a controller setup that doesn't use the Dpad anymore.
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Yeah it's an interesting dilemma. They could go back to having no block button and have L2 just be parry, or if they want to keep the block system, parries could be executed on a perfectly timed block. Then maybe you could combine a perfect L2 + some face button to pull off a variety of counters/reversals? I know counters in the old games were just moves that the player had to time correctly, but having them be parry extensions would free up some face button combos for other moves. Throws could be handled similarly using the other trigger.

Also button real estate could be freed up by getting rid of the moves that are just auto combos(do people even use those much?).

If they still run out of room, maybe they could just go all in on equip load outs where you have x number of moves slots to split between hand/leg moves, throws, and counters.
 
I've been playing a ton of Baran style Luster in PSO2 lately, and it's heavily counter based (which made for a good transition from Phantom). I think it's similar to what you're describing, @SalsaShark : Hitting the 'guard' button will perform a guard (in Luster's case, a short protected dodge), but hitting it with "Perfect Guard" timing on an incoming attack triggers a counter state. For Luster, there's a couple different counter scenarios depending on whether or not you're locked onto an enemy, and what directional input is used when Perfect Guarding. Baran style further modifies this by giving a "Quick Shot" window when perfect guarding forward or backward and locked on, resulting in a counter hit and a follow up attack from hitting the "Weapon Action" during the quick shot window. It's devastating on attack happy enemies. TPD Sodom is a ton of fun to fight as a Baran Luster.

At a more basic level, Hunter and Braver classes have a straight up block that reduces damage taken, but when perfect guarding-- I'm actually not totally sure if it nullifies damage, or what, but it activates Braver's gear anyway, which puts them into a higher damage state if their gear gauge is high enough.

Anyway, I think it's a pretty good system for allowing more casual play, and more skilled play, simultaneously. I've seen it put like this: If you see an attack coming, hit guard. If you at least start it early, you'll take damage, but it's reduced (depending on class). Once the timing becomes more natural, then you'll start to perfect guard.

I think something like this could be a really good compromise for Shenmue. The only issue is that Shenmue has a huge list of moves (as @danielmann861 points out), and a typical PSO2 class probably only has 12 or so. In terms of just counters and dodges, I think there's a lot to be gained from Suzuki maybe reaching out to some contacts he might have on the PSO2 dev team.

Although, to be clear, I still think the combat in Shenmue III is great, as is.
 
In Shenmue IV, Ryo puts up a better fight against Lan Di, but the real bad guy is revealed in possibly a cliffhanger.

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Chi You chose him long ago, someone close to the last dynasty, an imperial envoy, who would have the resolve and resources to be a reliable agent. Chi You has made age him a bit slower, so he can live longer to carry out his task. Zhu/Tentei in fact about 100.

Zhu sent Ryo the letter late on purpose, he told Lan Di Iwao had one Mirror, so he can begin 'the game'. Ryo opens the letter written in ancient characters. Zhu is very old and cultured. Ryo follows the first bread crump to Master Chen, and learns about a second mirror (because Zhu purposely divulged that to Chen) Chen eventually gives in and provides Ryo the means to reach to China and Chen proves to be a reliable pawn. Ryo meets the distinguished master, Xiuying, who resides in the hills of Wan Chai, he finds the Wullishu, and finds another bread crumb, the Chawan sign placed in Zhu's book. This leads him to Zhu's agent Zhang, there Ryo becomes an enemy of the Yellow heads, and Ryo is lured further into the underworld and becomes closer to his target Lan Di.

Eventually Ryo reaches Kowloon and enters the ghost hall building, looking for Zhu. Ryo places 4 keys in a statue, that resemble the sigils of the 4 leaders of the CYM. Within the secret room, 'the ghost' the shadow leader who rules over the 4 rulers, Yuanda Zhu/Tentei awaits.

Zhu is kidnapped, taken to the other Yellow Heads/grunts of the CYM, they don't know who he really is, he's a ghost/master mind within the heart of CYM, only a few know who he is. Ryo rescues him, Lan Di arrives on the helicopter, and recognises his crazy mentor as Yuanda Zhu "fuck him, I'm out of here, not another one of your games old man" lol, Zhu another persona, 5 corp, a front company.

Zhu tells Ryo about the treasure map, and tells him Lan Di is in Guilin. When Ryo/Shenhua reaches Niaowu, Zhu asks Zhang to keep track of their progress and head there. Ryo meets him in again, Zhang/Zhu uses Ryo to deal with a conflict between the Blue Spiders (grunts likely hired by Lan Di to rummage Bailu Village) and Tentei/Zhu's personal network of agent.

What does he want? I guess he's trying to manipulate Lan Di by giving him misleading information, assigning his spies and setting up proxies, and he has been leading Ryo, Lan Di, Shenhua towards fulfilling his own foreseen prophecy. I imagine a scene, where at one point he drops his meek veneer. Eventually Tentei finishes arranging all the pieces of the board, and triggers a climactic event. The treasure was just a distraction, the last dynasty wanted a way to preserve their legacy, but Tentei was given the designs to hand to the stone masons, he's in a position of power, to interject with the mirror's creation. In the final battle in the series, Tentei is able to fully harness the power of Chi You. He rejuvenates himself and becomes younger. Ryo and Lan Di fight a formidable Tentei, who demonstrates an array of technique featured the Wulinshu. The ultimate boss battle. Whilst he's distracted, Shenhua takes the sword of 7 stars and destroys his source of power, the Mirrors.

That's my crazy theory (fan fiction ok...)
 
Revan said:
I do hope we at least get an S4 tease of some kind before 2021 is up, mainly so I can just calm my tits already during this tense time when Shenmue's future now seems to hinge on these publisher pitches.

2019: Shenmue 3
2020: DLC, Complete Edition, OSTs, Anime
2021: Blank screen with a "4" on it

That would be enough for me.
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Agreed. As excited as I am for the anime and the possibilities that it may open IF it is successful, I am still 50/50 on Shenmue IV happening. I want it as much as any Shenmue fan, but I don't see a big publisher jumping onboard after SIII sales. Prove me wrong, Yu!!!
 
I had a random thought today.
Imagine that there is a timeskip of, lets say, 6 months in Shenmue 4. Ryo is training with some kind of grandmaster on top of a cliff everyday and honing his skills. Meanwhile, what is Ren gonna do?

Naturally, being the little thief that he is, he's going to want treasure. Using the character perspective system, you take control of Ren while Ryo is training. You go around doing stealth missions (MGS style) to grab some cash and so fourth, with the end mission of snagging the Phoenix mirror back from Niao Sun at their hideout.

How epic would that be to take control of ren for that purpose? :cool:
 
RetroLord120 said:
I had a random thought today.
Imagine that there is a timeskip of, lets say, 6 months in Shenmue 4. Ryo is training with some kind of grandmaster on top of a cliff everyday and honing his skills. Meanwhile, what is Ren gonna do?

Naturally, being the little thief that he is, he's going to want treasure. Using the character perspective system, you take control of Ren while Ryo is training. You go around doing stealth missions (MGS style) to grab some cash and so fourth, with the end mission of snagging the Phoenix mirror back from Niao Sun at their hideout.

How epic would that be to take control of ren for that purpose? :cool:
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I think Sun will get both Mirrors, but like Raiders of the Lost Ark, the shadow emerges that haunts the treasure 'the calamity' as Yeh called it, and she is consumed by the darkness. I don't think there should be a large time skip until the end, we've been with Ryo the whole journey, and a time skip would be a disconnection. In the epilogue, Ryo meets with Lan Di, and they spar like their fathers, this would be years after they defeated the true enemy, whether it's Tentei or the representation of Chi You's wrath, the greed and the hate.
 
While I appreciate the younger generation of Shenmue fans like @Kenzo38130, I think we older fans have two responsibilities we need to take on for Shenmue's sake. The first being that we need to keep the series alive for the next generation and the second being the acceptance that Shenmue is a niche product.

As you all know, most Shenmue fans (though certainly not all) are mostly now in their thirties and forties. As such, like a parent to a child, we have to pass down our passion to the next generation to have them understand why the series is so beloved. Because as Iwao Hazuki once stated "Parents often die before their children.... it's the law of nature." We aren't going to be around forever especially with all the major responsibilities we have as older adults to 'save Shenmue' if you will.

As I mentioned in a previous post a while ago, we have to accept that Shenmue is a niche product. The sales of Shenmue III and the sales report from Embracer are a testament to that fact. There's also the reality that Shenmue II did not sell like hotcakes on the original Xbox, Shenmue online and city went nowhere, and the HD collection did not catch on.

Lastly, Shenmue has to compete with Ryu ga Gotoku. The problem for Shenmue is that it hasn't had its Ryu ga Gotoku Zero moment. Therefore, we have to continue to extoll the virtues that make Shenmue unique from Ryu ga Gotoku, something I think Virtua Bros did phenomenally well.

At the end of the day, the only reason Shenmue has even re-entered the gaming zeitgeist is because of our insatiable passion for this series. It's why Shenmue III broke Kickstarter records, it's why we got a Shenmue I & II HD re-release, the Dragon/Phoenix collection is being developed, and why we're getting an anime. I want this series to burn bright indefinitely after us older fans and Suzuki are gone. That's the least we can do for a series we all love.
 
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I don't think Shenmue should focus on competing with Yakuza, that game had the potential to be more mainstream because it's so action packed. Shenmue is more of a town simulator. I think if Yu Suzuki can fund 4, he should focus on a conclusion. 4 is in a decent place to set up a finale, they've been rather vague about whether the treasure is in the cliff temple, and a civil was has begun that could tear the CYM apart. There's a good premise for the final game. Lan Di out powers Ryo, but the situation can reverse where Lan Di is the imbalanced one and Ryo can gain the upper hand, depending on how Sunming actually died.

Imo finish the original story, then Ryo can go on a journey training around China if they want to keep things open for a reboot. Reboot could be about the other CY leaders surviving, creating their separate factions, who would serve as the antagonists.
 
Demon's Triangle said:
I don't think Shenmue should focus on competing with Yakuza, that game had the potential to be more mainstream because it's so action-packed. Shenmue is more of a town simulator. I think if Yu Suzuki can fund 4, he should focus on a conclusion. 4 is in a decent place to set up a finale, they've been rather vague about whether the treasure is in the cliff temple, and a city was has begun that could tear the CYM apart. There's a good premise for the final game. Lan Di out powers Ryo, but the situation can reverse where Lan Di is the imbalanced one and Ryo can gain the upper hand, depending on how Sunming died.

Imo finish the original story, then Ryo can go on a journey training around China if they want to keep things open for a reboot. A reboot could be about the other CY leaders surviving, creating their separate factions, who would serve as the antagonists.
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Well, whether you like it or not, the Shenmue series has been consistently compared to the Ryu Ga Gotoku franchise. I can not count how many times SEGA has stoked this fire on Twitter. Or how individuals on other social media platforms like YouTube compare the series, stating the proverbial "Yakuza is a better Shenmue" line. Also, according to @tomboz, the Ryu Ga Gotoku franchise is more recognized in Japan than Shenmue. Even in its heyday, Shenmue was not super popular in Japan but struck a chord primarily with European audiences.

This is why I believe we should show the world what makes Shenmue such a unique experience in comparison to Ryu Ga Gotoku. Then there's the fact that the most popular Shenmue game in the series Shenmue II, has a lot more action in it. Not to say that's the only reason it's so popular, but it's one of its contributing factors.
 
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Tsukuyomimagi99 said:
Well, whether you like it or not, the Shenmue series has been consistently compared to the Ryu Ga Gotoku franchise. I can not count how many times SEGA has stoked this fire on Twitter. Or how individuals on other social media platforms like YouTube compare the series, stating the proverbial "Yakuza is a better Shenmue" line. Also, according to @tomboz, the Ryu Ga Gotoku franchise is more recognized in Japan than Shenmue. Even in its heyday, Shenmue was not super popular in Japan but struck a chord primarily with European audiences.

This is why I believe we should show the world what makes Shenmue such a unique experience in comparison to Ryu Ga Gotoku. Then there's the fact that the most popular Shenmue game in the series Shenmue II, has a lot more action in it. Not to say that's the only reason it's so popular, but it's one of its contributing factors.
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I don't think it needs to pander to them, if people think Yakuza is a good comparison, they don't get what we liked about the Shenmue in the first place. I would be all for IV improving the series, but it should have other priorities, and stay true to itself.
 
Tsukuyomimagi99 said:
Well, whether you like it or not, the Shenmue series has been consistently compared to the Ryu Ga Gotoku franchise. I can not count how many times SEGA has stoked this fire on Twitter. Or how individuals on other social media platforms like YouTube compare the series, stating the proverbial "Yakuza is a better Shenmue" line. Also, according to @tomboz, the Ryu Ga Gotoku franchise is more recognized in Japan than Shenmue. Even in its heyday, Shenmue was not super popular in Japan but struck a chord primarily with European audiences.

This is why I believe we should show the world what makes Shenmue such a unique experience in comparison to Ryu Ga Gotoku. Then there's the fact that the most popular Shenmue game in the series Shenmue II, has a lot more action in it. Not to say that's the only reason it's so popular, but it's one of its contributing factors.
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That's not particularly true...Shenmue I sold around 400k each between Japan, North America, and Europe. From then on, the only real data we have to compare is Kickstarter backers for Shenmue III, and breadcrumbs of hard numbers, such as that one Spanish chart and that one Japanese chart for III. Anecdotally, Shenmue is more popular in the west nowadays than in Japan, but we don't really have any factual data to back that up.
 
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