Revealed: Sega's cancelled Shenmue HD remake - with fully updated graphics (EuroGamer) Update 16/10 - Sega respond

Well, I know I haven't posted in a while but I just want to echo the sentiment of others in thread that I don't really care this alternate Shenmue HD ever existed. I've seen that Digital Foundry video and I'm honestly not impressed by the updated visuals. I'm the kind of guy who still owns a CRT TV for my Mega Drive and turns off pixel blurring filters in Sonic Mania/Mega Man X Legacy Collection etc. I prefer to keep the authentic visual qualities, over trying to update to the look of a retro game to meet modern expecations.

I much prefer the original Dreamcast graphics we got with Shenmue HD, even the high res textures is a luxury I could've done without. This alleged graphics toggle in the other version means nothing to me, when the footage doesn't provide a proof of concept. An unfinished prototype from a cancelled game can promise the moon but there is a great deal of difference between planned features and delivering a finished product that makes Shenmue fans happy
 
I’m personally bummed about it. But I’m just happy we got something. Wish it didn’t include all the bugs, but I guess that’s gaming in this generation. As stupid as that is.
 
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As sad as this is, I don't think it's quite as heartbreaking as all the time and money that was spent on Shenmue Online for nothing. That was something like $25 million and 4 years, this would have been nowhere near that by the time it was cancelled.
 
I keep seeing "the re-releases have sold surprisingly well/been a big success for SEGA"...is this still just based off VGChartz estimates and achieving the no.2 spot in the UK?
 
I keep seeing "the re-releases have sold surprisingly well/been a big success for SEGA"...is this still just based off VGChartz estimates and achieving the no.2 spot in the UK?
We will ignore VGChartz as they are quite inaccurate, someone mentioned Wikipedia don't even use them for sales figures.

It's more the fact it was trending on steam and made the top 5 in a number of countries in its first week on sale. We've unfortunately had no sales figures officially.

Would this of sold more who knows but it's an interesting idea as to what could have been
 
They would've had to charge full price or close to it, which may have impacted sales. We'll never know. It seems to me like quite a few people have picked up the re-release (or want to in the near future) partly because it's the right price point for an interesting/unique "classic" experience.
 
As a proof of concept video it's interesting, but if it only got canned at the end of last year, there may have been the very real worry that it would come too close to Shenmue III's release, which I think also played a part in the initial August date of the collection we did get in the end; when the only alternatives were getting caught up in the end of year slaughterhouse, or risking the increasing stacked looking start of 2019.

Spare a thought for d3t though. It was already clear they'd been dealt a tough job of handling Shenmue's unorthodox and highly hardware specific code, alongside incomplete Dreamcast libraries, but this solidifies that they deserve the utmost respect for trying to make the best of a bad situation. The release we got wasn't perfect, but given the circumstances, and how many of the imperfections were basically only cosmetic (please, don't bring that "broken!" rubbish here, you know it isn't), d3t pulled a rabbit out of their hat salvaging a shippable product and have been making up for the shortcomings ever since.

They don't deserve the frankly embarrassing harassment they've gotten online. It's a shame some people felt the need to harangue d3t at every given opportunity. Being disappointed in some capacity is acceptable, but being unable to handle that disappointment like an adult is not, I think.

As for the footage itself, I'm a bit indifferent. Like other posters have said, the strength of the revised visuals start to fall apart after the Hazuki Dojo, but I suppose it's not really fair to judge based on a proof of concept. Similarly I think had this actually came out, and the shoe were on the other foot, there would be complaints about the visuals not being faithful enough to the original, or not matching up to Kid Nicon's efforts, and whatnot. The grass is always greener, etc etc.

I think this can be filed as an interesting little note in Shenmue history alongside the Saturn build, but I'm personally glad we got updated versions of the games that are closer to how they actually were originally. I want a whole new generation to fall in love with the same games we did, rather than a version with some of the edges and "character" buffed off. I don't really want a Shenmue-flavoured repeat of the MGS1 vs Twin Snakes debate.

My real take away from all this is how poorly d3t have been treated for taking this project on, both by SEGA and parts of the gaming community.
 
TBH I think we dodged a bullet there.
That looked bland as fuck, especially evident in the park with Jianmin.
Well, let's be fair here...

1) They did have the option to toggle between new and old graphics
2) Shenmue 2 was only 10% complete and there was a LOT of work left to do - Shenmue 1 was 50% complete and the first few areas received the most attention at this point. So I suspect Shenmue 2 would have looked significantly better in the end.

My real take away from all this is how poorly d3t have been treated for taking this project on, both by SEGA and parts of the gaming community.
Yep. That's one of the reasons I wanted to release this. Knowing the whole story, it paints a very different picture and it's clear that d3t went through a lot but did the best they could within rather tight constraints. They were given the August date and told to hit it - no matter what.

Also give this a watch, it has some interesting ideas.
I like his idea here and it makes sense on paper but that's not what happened here. The assets visible in this new footage were created for this project rather than pulled from a cancelled port. They were only given Dreamcast and original Xbox materials to work with.
 
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Yep. That's one of the reasons I wanted to release this. Knowing the whole story, it paints a very different picture and it's clear that d3t went through a lot but did the best they could within rather tight constraints. They were given the August date and told to hit it - no matter what.

That's in itself madness given the project scope changed so much. I'll echo the comments above that they worked wonders given all of this and continue to work on the project. Do we know if they are contracted beyond the Nov 22nd Japanese release?

I think it's fair to say that if they had continued with the update they wouldn't have hit August 2018. Not if Shenmue 1 was at 50% and 2 at 10% complete.
 
@dark1x do you have any info on the relationship between Sega UK and d3t? All I can find about Sega UK online is that their QA team is being moved/outsourced to Bulgaria, but were there devs there who worked in tandem with d3t?

Do you know anything about Sega Japan's role in all of this?
 
I think it's fair to say that if they had continued with the update they wouldn't have hit August 2018. Not if Shenmue 1 was at 50% and 2 at 10% complete.

It might have not even made August 2019 at that rate; Michael Abrash likes to quote one of his former managers who said "After you finish the first 90% of a project, you have to finish the other 90%." :p
 
About Sega UK QA moving to Bulgaria is not that rare and also is a common practice in the business. Almost every company I have worked for have a large group of their QA on that area, especially on Romania, so I really doubt that there is any connection between Shenmue I&II and them moving locations.

About the video I don't know what to think, it looks great on the scenarios but a little bit meh on the characters. Also some changes in the characters models could drive some people crazy like it is happening with Shenmue III. I would love to see that build somewhere just to use the assets by modders, but I prefer what we have that what we saw yesterday. Honestly, the only way to go with remakes is with Yu or Sega Japan doing them, and that is not going to happen in the short term.
 
Remember how in the first few trailers we saw barely any shadows? We were wondering how they could be working on the game for so long without shadows being implemented, but now with this video, we can infer that they were focused on the fancy new shadow tech before getting the original shadow functionality working properly.
 
I wonder what the deal with the widescreen options would have been with the reworked version; again, there are just so many variables and quirks in the code that having such a "hybrid" option would be a ton of work.
 
I have read the article and watched the video numerous times, and I fall under the indifferent category. It would have been awesome to have a Shenmue re-master, in the footage we have seen in the video uncovered by John and Digital Foundry (thanks @dark1x!), but it still doesn't change the fact that whatever version of Shenmue we now have on Xbox, PS4 and PC, that was not the end game. It was an extra bonus. A stepping stone. A means to an end. Nothing more than to preserve the almost 20 year old games, and encourage anyone who hasn't played them to give them a try, and perhaps draw more interest to Shenmue 3.

I have always took offence to the negative branding of d3t throughout this process, which I don't need to go into again. Sega also. We could be sitting here with nothing at all, with Sega deciding that their fingers were burned far too much from the original games, and any sort of re-release would not have been worth the financial risk. Whatever way you want to look at it, the history of Shenmue from a business standpoint, is that it is a financial liability. Numbers don't lie. The Kickstarter for Shenmue 3 has proven that there could be a mixture of an old and new audience to possibly make a profit look a bit more promising, and that's exactly what has happened with the current re-releases which we received. Sega are very happy with the sales numbers, we have Shenmue 1 and 2 on modern consoles, any issues have been worked on since the release, and we achieved all we could have asked for when looking back just a few short years ago. For that I am, and always will be thankful.

Whilst any sort of re-master would have been great, we already have a sense of how that would have played out from this topic alone. From just a few short scenes, we already have differences of opinion. Personally, I love the scenes we have seen. They are mouth-watering to me, but I understand the point of view of purists who just feel that its going in a wrong direction to what the original games stand for. Whilst the project fell through, its nice to get a glimpse into what could have been, and who knows what can come of this in the future. I would also guess that this article isn't a cut and dry job either. There's a chance there will be more comments or articles from possibly d3t or even indeed Sega themselves on the matter. I would agree with John that its just a collection of issues that made this project less appealing in the long run, over the versions we did get, from timescale, budget and development issues to name a few. If those issues were to cause major delays or clashes with Shenmue 3 then I am personally glad they scaled back and went down the route they have chosen.

Whatever way you look at it, we have the re-releases across all modern platforms and Shenmue 3 is fast approaching. With good sales numbers for the re-releases, and a kickstarted Shenmue 3, things possibly look good for the future of the franchise, which may not be everyone's concern, but it sure is mine. There's a bigger picture always at play with Shenmue, and that's where I try and look to.
 
Why? No one knew about this until today. It’s easy to be all high and mighty now but there were serious problems with the port that needed fixing. All we knew was that dt3 made this port and it was full of flaws. I agree some people were too harsh but that doesn’t invalidate our critiques of the port based on the knowledge we had at the time. Hindsight is 20/20.

Maybe because it's ridiculous to make hyperbolic, rage induced comments about a development process we knew nothing about. Maybe that's why.
 
It's interesting to reread that Jurgen Posts interview from 2016 again in light of this:

"There is definitely a desire [to go back to our classic games],” Post said. Even online, people are constantly talking about products they would like to see come back, and Shenmue 1 and 2 are probably in the top two places. We are looking into it. It is an old IP, it is a beloved IP – and not just by consumers, but also within Sega, we have people saying that if we could do Shenmue 1 and 2 all over again, we'd definitely go for it.
The issue is that it is a big game. It is a project from many years ago. If we are to do it, we'd want to do a fantastic conversion to the current platforms, and there are a lot of licences in the game, which were cleared many years ago, so we will need to renegotiate those contracts. We are looking into it. We haven't given it a green light, but it has our full attention.”

https://www.mcvuk.com/business/sega-europe-shenmue-1-and-2-remakes-have-our-full-attention

At the time fans either thought he was being cagey and they really had given the green light, or he was just paying lip service and they weren't really looking into it.

In the end, I guess he was telling the truth: they were looking into different avenues, but hadn't committed at the time whether it would be a remake or a remaster, or something in between.
 
No comment. Just grateful Yu-san and Shenmue III moved on from $ega.
Dude. Just because time has passed since your last warning doesn't make it suddenly OK to start abusing dollar signs again. So I'll tell you once more to cut it out. It's immature and baity. Please consider this a verbal.
 
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