Ryo is the best worst Martial Artist of all time

[Dehone]

in fact Ryo can still toy with some thugs on 1 VS 1 in Shenmue 3 (he can also finally defeat Chai without much problems, wo he has grown), but you can't expect him to take on an entire gang alone, (when this happen, Ryo has always the help of Guizhang in S1 or Ren in S3 and S3), he is not a superhuman like Kiryu who can also dodge missiles...

The series right now shows that Ryo can handle max 5 people alone, as long as they are random street thugs of course and not martial art masters.

Ryo lose in S3 versus Yanlang and Ge, and those two aren't your average street thugs, they probably are just as strong as Dou Niu in Shenmue 2 (remember that even Dou Niu is barely defeated thanks to the counter elbow assault, still Dou Niu had the edge).
Ryo lose also vs masters, just like with Xiuying.

I think the game is pretty consistent depicting Ryo and other characters martial abilities.

True, Ryo didnt handle the Mad Angels alone but it was still 2 on 70 and given their back and forth banter during the fight, they appeared to be kicking an equal amount of ass. Also, Guizhang bailed when it was time to fight Pedro.

As far as Ren helping in S2, he only really helped as far as taking on a handful of dudes wo Ryo could go to the 40th floor and let Ryo focus on Saving Zhu and taking on Don Niu. When it came to fighting Yuan and Don Niu, Ren sat on the sideline. And even when Ryo got caught sneaking through the Yellowhead building, he had to take them on himself.

As far as Yanling and Ge, yes, they are physically stronger, but given the fights Ryo has been in with similar people, they shouldn't be unbeatable. Losing a fight or even two then learning through sparring and training(without having to learn/buy a new move) I can understand. But to lose by default and have Ryo act completely clueless as to how to defeat him doesn't make sense. Realistically, Ryo should've been focusing on dodging and parrying because he already has powerful enough moves.

 

[HRGiger]

Here's my bit on this issue.

Ryo Hazuki is a reflection of Yu Suzuki. It's been nigh on fifteen years since Yu has revisited this particular universe with any creative license (the failed MMO / phone game, perhaps some script edits and input on the remasters, but no new creative ventures before the kickstarter). Naturally, being gone so long, he's forgotten some of what he learned duing the first two games. It makes sense, then, that Ryo himself is a bit sloppy coming back into the game word, and essentially has to re-learn himself in a new environment (new navigation and fighting systems, no regenerating stamina, no throws, etc.)

Storywise, Ryo's revenge is still a high priority, and is compounded by the discovery of Shenhua's father's kidnapping. Now there's urgency, uncertainty, and he's still trying to understand the larger mystery of the mirrors and his place in a Grand Prophecy. That's a lot to take in for a teenager in a strange land. He's not in a good place mentally, so he screws up a lot where he normally wouldn't, as he tries to find his footing in a new paradigm.

Spoiler

Much like we (OK, at least I) screwed up trying to learn the new fighting system, and getting creamed by thugs you'd normally breeze through in S1/2. Does health regenerate on lower difficulties? I miss my dodge button.

 

[Wolfghosts]

Here's my bit on this issue.

Ryo Hazuki is a reflection of Yu Suzuki. It's been nigh on fifteen years since Yu has revisited this particular universe with any creative license (the failed MMO / phone game, perhaps some script edits and input on the remasters, but no new creative ventures before the kickstarter). Naturally, being gone so long, he's forgotten some of what he learned duing the first two games. It makes sense, then, that Ryo himself is a bit sloppy coming back into the game word, and essentially has to re-learn himself in a new environment (new navigation and fighting systems, no regenerating stamina, no throws, etc.)

Storywise, Ryo's revenge is still a high priority, and is compounded by the discovery of Shenhua's father's kidnapping. Now there's urgency, uncertainty, and he's still trying to understand the larger mystery of the mirrors and his place in a Grand Prophecy. That's a lot to take in for a teenager in a strange land. He's not in a good place mentally, so he screws up a lot where he normally wouldn't, as he tries to find his footing in a new paradigm.

Spoiler

Much like we (OK, at least I) screwed up trying to learn the new fighting system, and getting creamed by thugs you'd normally breeze through in S1/2. Does health regenerate on lower difficulties? I miss my dodge button.

I understand that gap, but there are better ways to handle a reintroduction to the series and getting up to speed with the combat system than making a good martial artist suddenly ineffectual in the plot except (flashback fights for backstory and logical time frame), then there are also the moments when he's stunningly exceptional. I also draw issue with the whole "new environment, new styles" mentioned earlier, because again that's not how it works both in real life and with what the plots set up you don't suddenly lose your fight IQ when you've been training since childhood as a fighter just like boxers still retain a large portion of their awareness and fleetness years after they stop competing. But also the Hazuki style is a hybrid style that includes aspects of Chinese martial arts so it's not like he would be such a fish out of water, his opponents would be at just as much of a disadvantage combatting Ryo's grappling and Jiujitsu elements since the fighting across all boards has been primarily striking based (At least you know, while that was in the game, RIP Throw moves ;_

His mental faculties could be an interesting topic but again the plot doesn't coalesce with that, I don't get the impression Ryo is ever really overwhelmed and having difficulty adjusting because while he does get frustrated at times, he's kind of dumb and often unaware (how many frustrating traps has he walked into?) and incredibly emotionally stunted. I mean we don't even really have that great of a handle on his relationship with Iwao to understand why he's so hurt aside from a handful of stoic flashbacks in game one and the constant reminders throughout all of them that Ryo knows next to nothing about Iwao's past life.

 

[gladias9]

I just don't think Ryo, as he is written in Shenmue 3, is a character worth following anymore..

Sora from Kingdom Hearts can get amnesia and lose all his abilities at the beginning of each new game because Kingdom Hearts games are written to accomodate the dumb, happy-go-lucky protagonist who never changes.

Shenmue is written in a way that these lessons are supposed to stick with Ryo throughout his journey so that he can defeat Lan Di at the end of it all. If Ryo shows no sign of growth between games then there is no point for the games prior to exist.

 

[Wolfghosts]

Shenmue is written in a way that these lessons are supposed to stick with Ryo throughout his journey so that he can defeat Lan Di at the end of it all. If Ryo shows no sign of growth between games then there is no point for the games prior to exist.

That's how I feel, its a Martial Arts Epic that is supposed to follow the hero's journey and there is this intense lull when by this point he doesn't have to be demolishing people but also nearly half way into the story we should have no doubts about his abilities against anyone but Lan Di or characters that become established, and if they can back off the old martial artist master trope or characters that are tough because they're very large (Dou Niu, and the two guys here) because he's just meeting way to many of them at this point that it's cheapening those characters intensely with the repetition.

 

[gladias9]

if they can back off the old martial artist master trope or characters that are tough because they're very large (Dou Niu, and the two guys here) because he's just meeting way to many of them at this point that it's cheapening those characters intensely with the repetition.

It feels almost like a parody now.
They are just creating poor knockoffs of the characters we already met and lessons that were already taught.

 

[HRGiger]

I've always seen Ryo Hazuki's character acrchetype the same as Domon Kasshu's. It took almost 24 episodes, which translates into almost a year, before Domon could control his anger and evolve his training. Ryo's still in the first half of his series.

Shenmue is written in a way that these lessons are supposed to stick with Ryo throughout his journey so that he can defeat Lan Di at the end of it all.

That's one way it could play out. It could also play out that Ryo doesn't actually "defeat" Lan Di, rather he evolves past his anger and resolves his inner conflicts without violence. Ryo may have learned the Wude and various philosophies from several masters, but he has a long way to go before he actually implements all of them into his character. He's still immature and rushing headlong, reckless, towards his goals, and pretty much every elder martial artist says this, repeatedly, in this game and previous games. I don't think SIII was supposed to include Ryo's Zen Focusing moment.

if they can back off the old martial artist master trope or characters that are tough because they're very large (Dou Niu, and the two guys here) because he's just meeting way to many of them at this point

Yeah, I felt like both of those bad guys were filler material, and completely ruined the pacing for the plot advancement. Especially with the bit about Bailu guy holing up in a hut with the stonemason, conveniently allowing you to spend almost a week training to receive the Body Check.The cash incentives felt very forced as well.

I really hope he avoids that kind of storytelling for the next segment, or the DLC. Which reminds me, I should try the Battle Rush thing.

 

[Wolfghosts]

That's one way it could play out. It could also play out that Ryo doesn't actually "defeat" Lan Di, rather he evolves past his anger and resolves his inner conflicts without violence. Ryo may have learned the Wude and various philosophies from several masters, but he has a long way to go before he actually implements all of them into his character. He's still immature and rushing headlong, reckless, towards his goals, and pretty much every elder martial artist says this, repeatedly, in this game and previous games. I don't think SIII was supposed to include Ryo's Zen Focusing moment.

With the masters I felt like the Masters in 1&2 had purpose and taught him lessons that evolved his character (I feel like we could have stretched the 4 wude over 3 games and really had them used as Ryo's growth arc) in 3 they were replaced with you need this one move and eh itd be cool if you could remember those other things you learned but not necessary.

I recall Yu saying in an interview that as the series goes on Ryo was to grow and evolve past revenge as his sole motivation and honestly I'd be fine with him never truly beating Lan Di too and growing as a person while Lan Di gets his comeuppance in some other way, it's a good model.

But personally what I'd like to see is the abandonment of the fantastical which it seems lile they've been moving away from (the prophecy, energy orbs, smoke holograph maps, floating swords etc) and root it closer to reality, the mirrors utilized as keys to an actual treasure (artifacts, gold, gems, whatever) that will propel the Chi You Men towards a global crime organization and that become a bigger concern, Lan Di aquires the treasure, Ryo fights and beats Lan Di (this would have been a great use of the castle environment and fighting in a burning castle). Treasure is given back to the proper authorities and Ryo goes home with some quick detours on the way back to Japan resolving the other characters. I could go into more of what I'd envision but that's enough of my fan fiction lol.

 

[HRGiger]

The game's premise has already baked in the mystical (the prophecy, allusions to chinese mythology, star alignments, ancient evils), so it's there for better or worse. The end of 2 was somewhat retconned at the beginning of 3. While it may be dialed back other than Shenhua's capabilities, we're gonna get magic kung-fu one way or the other.

 

[Wolfghosts]

The game's premise has already baked in the mystical (the prophecy, allusions to chinese mythology, star alignments, ancient evils), so it's there for better or worse. The end of 2 was somewhat retconned at the beginning of 3. While it may be dialed back other than Shenhua's capabilities, we're gonna get magic kung-fu one way or the other.

I know it's there but I'd disagree, we're moving away from magic Kung Fu which the series should since it hasn't really been about that in the half series we have so far outside of conversation ans the end of 2, if they do include it it'll have extremely forced elements at this point. I feel like the tasteful way to do it is to make the prophecy vague with loose elements that link it to Ryo and not an ordained end of the world battle.

 

[Dehone]

The game's premise has already baked in the mystical (the prophecy, allusions to chinese mythology, star alignments, ancient evils), so it's there for better or worse. The end of 2 was somewhat retconned at the beginning of 3. While it may be dialed back other than Shenhua's capabilities, we're gonna get magic kung-fu one way or the other.

Yeah, although im not a huge fan of magic and all that stuff, everything has been set in stone and I dont want all this "the chi you with rise and swallow the world whole" thing to just go away. Pretty much shits on what Master Chen was saying and makes him look like a nut

 

[Wolfghosts]

Yeah, although im not a huge fan of magic and all that stuff, everything has been set in stone and I dont want all this "the chi you with rise and swallow the world whole" thing to just go away. Pretty much shits on what Master Chen was saying and makes him look like a nut

I mean it was there at the start, but outside of the end of the second game and the visual demos is there anything else mystical in the games that I'm missing? I feel like a lot of it can be written off and worked out as metaphors