Sega from 2015 to today: Have they "re-established the Sega brand?"

[Tomato Convenience Store]

(from Wikipedia):

"In 2015, Sega president Haruki Satomi told Famitsu that, in the previous ten years, Sega had "betrayed" the trust of older fans and that he hoped to re-establish the Sega brand."​

What do you guys think of the job Sega’s been doing in the 5 years since that statement? Do you feel they’ve been successfully getting their “brand” back, or at least took some positive steps to get there? Or was the period from 2005-2015 not as bad as it seemed? I’ll try to list some of the higher profile releases since 2015, while also including some of the old school franchises that made a comeback as a smaller downloadable game.

This won’t be comprehensive, so I won’t cover a bunch of ports and mobile type games. I’ll probably miss some very Japanese-centric games as well. I believe some of these are not developed or published by Sega, they just licensed out the IP, but I’ll include them!

Re-releases and remasters:

• Shenmue I and II
• Valkyria Chronicles
• Wonder Boy: The Dragon’s Trap
• Wonder Boy Returns
• Alex Kidd DX (Not yet released)
• Bayonetta
• Vanquish
• Yakuza Remastered
• Panzer Dragoon
• Catherine: Full Body (technically a Sega game now, but generally associated with Atlus)
• Persona 4 on PC (technically a Sega game now, but generally associated with Atlus)
• Odin Sphere Leifthrasir (same as above!)
• Sega Genesis Classics

New Games or games finally coming West (on “yearly release” games, I’ll just list the series name):

• Persona 5/P5R
• Judgment/The Yazuka series
• Valkyria Chronicles 4
• Streets of Rage 4
• Sonic Mania
• Phantasy Star Online 2
• Shenmue III (can’t entirely give Sega credit, but at least they let Yu Suzuki release this)
• Sonic Forces
• Total War Series
• Football Manager Series
• Valkyria Revolution
• Toe Jam and Earl: Back in the Groove

Mini-consoles and services:

• Sega Genesis Mini
• Game Gear Micro (not yet released)
• Astro City Mini (not yet released)
• Fog Gaming (not yet released, might be Japan exclusive)

I think they’ve shown a pretty nice balance of bringing back some of the older Sega franchises with some solid showings on some newer titles. The Sega Genesis Mini had a solid library of games that represented the console very well. It seems the main releases or announcements that have received a “lukewarm” reception are Sonic Forces, Valkyria Revolution, and Game Gear Micro (and maybe if you count Shenmue III). The biggest hit has been far and away Persona 5, so Atlus has shown to be a huge boon for the Sega library. It’s also nice to see Sega start to rely on franchises for stability, even if they sell modestly yet consistently. I do miss the old Sega that would swing for the fences a bit more and make games that command your attention, but it makes sense to go the “franchise” route, especially since a bunch of us complained that Sega would often abandon some of their IP in each successive generation.

I know I’ll pick up Valkyria Chronicles 4 soon since it’s something I’ve wanted Sega to make for a while and I’d be a hypocrite if I complain about Sega not making games that I want, only to not buy the ones that I was asking for, haha. Persona 5 and Sonic Mania were amazing games, and I’m waiting for my Limited Run Games SOR4 to be delivered, but I’m sure I’ll love that, too. These past few years I’ve probably bought the most amount of Sega games since the original Xbox, especially if you consider the re-releases, so that’s probably a good sign that things are turning around.

I don’t want to get too deep into explaining my thoughts, but I kind of stopped following or caring much for Sega once we got past their transition to third party on Xbox/GC/PS2. They just stopped making games that I care about. However, if Sega had this 5-year output of games from 2005-2010 I think most fans would be ecstatic, and I definitely have gotten back on track in following what games they put out or will plan to put out in the future. Perhaps part of that is also due to the focus on the Genesis Mini and Analogue SG the past two years or so. It rekindled that fire, mannnnnnnnnnnn.

 

[Sonoshee]

With Shenmue, Streets of Rage 4 and Panzer Dragoon, I feel they are making a good start in regards to their older generation of fans. But they still have a huge backlog of fantastic IP's they need to look at. One which I thought would have been a no-brainer was Skies of Arcadia, but we haven't even see a bog standard port of that at all yet which is bizarre to say the least.
They still have a way to go in my opinion to turn things around for the older fans, but what they have done so far has to be commended.

 

[Tomato Convenience Store]

With Shenmue, Streets of Rage 4 and Panzer Dragoon, I feel they are making a good start in regards to their older generation of fans. But they still have a huge backlog of fantastic IP's they need to look at. One which I thought would have been a no-brainer was Skies of Arcadia, but we haven't even see a bog standard port of that at all yet which is bizarre to say the least.
They still have a way to go in my opinion to turn things around for the older fans, but what they have done so far has to be commended.

Yeah, I agree that Skies is a no-brainer since it's been acknowledged that it's been heavily requested from Sega. I think my dream scenario would be for Sega to make a full on "modern" remaster of the original Skies, then use what they learned while making that remaster as R&D for a proper sequel.

Other than that, I think in general I wouldn't say everything Sega needs to do to win back old fans is to leverage old IP and it's probably unrealistic for every single major IP to be revived. Even something new can fill the void. I imagine there were Phantasy Star purists who wanted a proper Phantasy Star V instead of PSO, but a lot of the PSIV folks helped make Skies of Arcadia. And hell, Virtua Fighter characters were replaced with original Shenmue characters. That being said, I would definitely want to see a few of the older IPs like Skies and Jet Set Radio get some modern love.

 

[Sonoshee]

I wouldn't expect them to revive the majority of their older IPs, sorry for the confusion. Just some of the bigger titles that were really original/inventive and deserve a port or rehaul. For example, Skies, Burning Rangers and Virtua Cop alone would be nice and restore a bit more of that faith. Naturaly I wouldn't expect the more obscure titles to ever see light of day again, like Deep Fear for instants, even though that would be nice as it was one of my guilty pleasures on the Saturn.

Sega allowed a Space Channel 5 VR recently, which honestly was a franchise I never thought would ever see a new instalment.
So, as I say, I believe they are trying. I just think there's some dormant IPs there that deserve a revival and if marketed right could make them some good income, even if it's just another one off.

 

[Down by Law]

The mini astro city cabinet is a great start, plenty of games from the vault that haven't seen a home release before.

Also we've has Shenmue 3 and Streets of Rage 4, 17 year old me's most wanted from 2002. For a long time I never thought we'd see either. Sega are on a good trajectory right now, lets hope they keep it up. I'm happier with outsourced high quality titles if they can't be done in-house, than nothing at all.

 

[Sput Vas Normandy]

Like I said a few weeks ago (and this post prooves it) Sega is doing a great job (as dev or publisher, I dont care) and receives a lot of undeserved hate. Never is enough. If they do a great game, "yeah, about time". If they do a good Sonic, "well what about Sonic 2006?", If they do a great classic game, "well but what about *insert game of dreamcast that actually nobody bought in the moment?*, and so on.

And I'm not a heavy fanboy of Sega 90s nostalgia and so on. Because Sega was actually already trash and broken in my childhood.

 

[Mittens2317]

I wouldn't say they've re-established themselves in terms of associating their name with quality products, but I don't think people are apprehensive about purchasing a game when they notice the name SEGA. Likewise it isn't an instant sell on people either. They've just kinda averaged out, imo.

As a side-note, I can't get over the fact Alien: Isolation came out more than five years ago. Madness!

 

[KiddMarine]

I'd happily put Valkyria Chronicles 4 and Sonic Mania in my list of best games this gen, so they're definitely on the right track.

 

[Vivi-gamer]

As someone who is more primarily a PlayStation gamer, I feel SEGA has certainly been much better than ever - Well since the loss of the Dreamcast.

The highlight being the revival of the Yakuza series - A series which really struggled throughout the PS3 Era, Yakuza 5 Only getting a digital version years later. But now on the PS4 I can play Yakuza 0-7 (7 Soon anyway) & what a wonderful feeling that gives! I've still never played Yakuza 5 & 6 and didn't want to until I had a proper chance which we have gotten on the PS4! I am currently playing through Yakuza 4 thanks to the Remaster Collection.

Also, shout out to SEGAShop in the UK, I'm not even the biggest SEGA fan but I love this shop!

 

[Tomato Convenience Store]

Like I said a few weeks ago (and this post prooves it) Sega is doing a great job (as dev or publisher, I dont care) and receives a lot of undeserved hate. Never is enough. If they do a great game, "yeah, about time". If they do a good Sonic, "well what about Sonic 2006?", If they do a great classic game, "well but what about *insert game of dreamcast that actually nobody bought in the moment?*, and so on.

And I'm not a heavy fanboy of Sega 90s nostalgia and so on. Because Sega was actually already trash and broken in my childhood.

I think this is a result of some of the high profile missteps they've have from 2005-ish to 2015, though. There were just way too many games that had poor to middling reception and it takes a while to rebuild trust. And that's following up the commercial failure of the Dreamcast. I'll avoid making another list, haha. They'd probably need another 5 years of similar output, with maybe 1 or 2 big hits to rebuild their reputation with filthy casuals.

The mini astro city cabinet is a great start, plenty of games from the vault that haven't seen a home release before.

...I'm happier with outsourced high quality titles if they can't be done in-house, than nothing at all.

Agreed on both these points. It's really easy to forget that Sega made their bones in the arcades and have a ridiculous amount of properties that can be leveraged. It also seems that their outsourced games have been faithful to the originals for the most part. I think it's smart to continue this way with games that are shorter and/or have been traditionally 2D, and keep feeding the devs have done well with your properties.

I wouldn't say they've re-established themselves in terms of associating their name with quality products, but I don't think people are apprehensive about purchasing a game when they notice the name SEGA. Likewise it isn't an instant sell on people either. They've just kinda averaged out, imo.

As a side-note, I can't get over the fact Alien: Isolation came out more than five years ago. Madness!

Yeah, I think they've been nice and steady but might need a few more high profile successes. Persona 5 was a huge hit but is probably not strongly associated with Sega. I think it would be a good idea to spend a lot of time to make a 3D Sonic game and release it alongside the Sonic 2 movie. Then just one more big swing on bringing back an old AAA property, or creating a new IP.

 

[Sonoshee]

As a side-note, I can't get over the fact Alien: Isolation came out more than five years ago. Madness!

God, what a game!

 

[高野和泉]

If they bring back Yu Suzuki...That'll be a huge morale booster and builds trust again with anybody who's been with Sega from the 80's-00's.

 

[hyo_razuki]

I'd say yes. While Sega are not quite as ahead of their time and at the forefront of the industry as they were in the 90s and early 2000s, I'm having a hard time trying to think of a "better" developer or publisher in the console market during the last 5 years.

With Yakuza 0 and Persona 5, Sega have released two legendary classics which are easily in the top 10 games of the PS4, the most successful console of this generation.

Also they have released other great titles like Valkyria Chronicles 4 and Yakuza 6 (not as good as 0, but still GOTY material). At the same time Sega have successfully revived old brands which had been dead for a long time, at least in the Western markets, such as Sakura Wars, Shenmue, Wonder Boy, Panzer Dragoon, 2-D Sonic, Streets of Rage out of which especially the latter two proved to be hugely successful. Granted, most of the vintage brands were outsourced to other developers but Sega still published and funded most of these games or at least got behind the projects in terms of finding the right partners and giving them the licenses.

And they've got exciting stuff in their pipeline such as Yakuza 7, which from all I hear will be going into Yakuza 0 territory in terms of quality.

I know Sega bashing seems to be a thing especially among older fans like us, who grew up on Sega consoles and I understand that Sega's standards were even higher in the past, but still, when I look at the rest of the market, I'd say Sega have been doing a pretty damn fine job over the last 5 years.

 

[Dg1995]

I'd say yes. While Sega are not quite as ahead of their time and at the forefront of the industry as they were in the 90s and early 2000s, I'm having a hard time trying to think of a "better" developer or publisher in the console market during the last 5 years.

They weren't really that ahead of their time. They had a lucky shot with Genesis alongside having good arcade games but they did lots of mess ups after mess ups which lead to their fall.

In my opinion Sega of today is better than the 90s SEGA.(And I'm sure the 90s SEGA wouldn't make Shenmue 3 or Virtua Fighter 6 either.)

 

[Sonoshee]

They weren't really that ahead of their time. They had a lucky shot with Genesis alongside having good arcade games but they did lots of mess ups after mess ups which lead to their fall.

In my opinion Sega of today is better than the 90s SEGA.(And I'm sure the 90s SEGA wouldn't make Shenmue 3 or Virtua Fighter 6 either.)

I have to disagree. Creatively, Sega couldn't be touched in the 90s. They are nowhere near better today than they were back then. They don't have much, if any, of that magic anymore, because they are now a company who play it safe rather than giving talented developers a blank cheque to really create something special. As a reference, just go through their in-house releases on their own consoles during the 90s and early 2000s and compare to those of today released on other consoles and, save for a handful of titles, it really speaks for itself.
And I believe the 90s Sega would have made a VF6 more so than the Sega of today, if you look at how much more willing they were back then to even make spin-off's of that franchise (eg. VF Kids).

 

[spud1897]

They weren't really that ahead of their time. They had a lucky shot with Genesis alongside having good arcade games but they did lots of mess ups after mess ups which lead to their fall.

In my opinion Sega of today is better than the 90s SEGA.(And I'm sure the 90s SEGA wouldn't make Shenmue 3 or Virtua Fighter 6 either.)

I don't want to sound funny but using Lockheed Martin software for their arcade tech to make the first full 3d racer and fighting game wasn't ahead of their time in 1993/4?

Sega were trail-blazers back in the day and if anything took too many risks with so many formats and games. Shenmue was a prime example of this and had Sega stayed down those routes they would have made Shenmue III back in the day, maybe even now.

What they have done now is make decent games on a solid business model while loaning out the old IP's for a fee/sales cut which means their older stuff hits the market and generates publcity for them. Win, win. They have some fantastic games now but they're generally within tried and tested formulas. Back in the 90's Sega were making those formulas.

The Mega Drive/Genisis success was down to a well calculated marketing campaign, wooing developers who were pissed with Nintendo and giving them the freedom to make what they wanted. Sega targeted the teen-adult male demographic and basically said screw it to family gaming in the Nintendo format and went for something new and exciting. It was no fluke that it gathered success. Check out Console Wars if you haven't already. It goes into proper detail on this.

 

[hyo_razuki]

They weren't really that ahead of their time. They had a lucky shot with Genesis alongside having good arcade games but they did lots of mess ups after mess ups which lead to their fall.

In my opinion Sega of today is better than the 90s SEGA.(And I'm sure the 90s SEGA wouldn't make Shenmue 3 or Virtua Fighter 6 either.)

Absolutely wrong in so many ways I don't even know where to begin. I think Sonoshee and Spud said most of the relevant points already. Perhaps another key factor related to Sega's and especially Shenmue's fate was Isao Okawa's passing in 2001.

 

[Dg1995]

I don't want to sound funny but using Lockheed Martin software for their arcade tech to make the first full 3d racer and fighting game wasn't ahead of their time in 1993/4?

What they have done now is make decent games on a solid business model while loaning out the old IP's for a fee/sales cut which means their older stuff hits the market and generates publcity for them. Win, win. They have some fantastic games now but they're generally within tried and tested formulas. Back in the 90's Sega were making those formulas.

At that time, every publisher was inventing new formulas. By that logic you can say every publisher was much better in the 90s than now.
-Id software invented the first person genre.
-Westwood made RTS.
-infogrames games made Survival Horror genre.(With alone in the dark 1)
-Capcom popularized 2D fighting games.
-Core Design and Eidos Tomb Raider popularized 3rd person games.(where the camera is behind the character)
-Midway made the first violent video game on arcades.
-Eric Chahi made Another World which I think was the first game in the world that it's characters had polygons(It was a 1991 game) and you didn't have limited lives and you weren't getting scores for playing games.
-Flight sim games used polygons much sooner than Sega.
Etc.

At that time, Gaming was still new and so every publisher could invent new genres and ideas that are still being used in games in this day.

And, no. Sega of that time wouldn't publish sequels for a game that wasn't successful for them.(Shenmue 2)
It is the same Sega that didn't release the rest of Shining Force 3 in the west after SF 3 episode 1.

Edit:The only division of SEGA that was really ahead of their time was their arcade division. That is why arcade division was focused on making 3D games while the console Division wanted Sega Saturn to be a 2D console.

 

[spud1897]

At that time, every publisher was inventing new formulas. By that logic you can say every publisher was much better in the 90s than now.
-Id software invented the first person genre.
-Westwood made RTS.
-infogrames games made Survival Horror genre.(With alone in the dark 1)
-Capcom popularized 2D fighting games.
-Core Design and Eidos Tomb Raider popularized 3rd person games.(where the camera is behind the character)
-Midway made the first violent video game on arcades.
-Eric Chahi made Another World which I think was the first game in the world that it's characters had polygons(It was a 1991 game) and you didn't have limited lives and you weren't getting scores for playing games.
-Flight sim games used polygons much sooner than Sega.
Etc.

At that time, Gaming was still new and so every publisher could invent new genres and ideas that are still being used in games in this day.

And, no. Sega of that time wouldn't publish sequels for a game that wasn't successful for them.(Shenmue 2)
It is the same Sega that didn't release the rest of Shining Force 3 in the west after SF 3 episode 1.

Edit:The only division of SEGA that was really ahead of their time was their arcade division. That is why arcade division was focused on making 3D games while the console Division wanted Sega Saturn to be a 2D console.

Agreed lots of firms broke new ground which is why the 90's gamers were spoilt and I loved it.

Flight Sims may have used Polygons first but it was hardly accessible to the home consumer. PC prices back then were ridiculous money and you could but a Saturn for £400 or more with games. A PC of a similar Spec was easily double if not triple that. Sega made those games accessible in the home but firstly the arcade.

SEGA's console division did also innovate much of what we see today in consoles. Online gaming, the Genesis had that in a very basic format, hell it even had a downloads channel which only became popular in the 2000's, launched in 1990, on board saves Sega Saturn did that (some lesser known stuff may have done it first but I've not checked), first console with built in modem, Dreamcast, first to use Second Screen tech (stretching a little) Dreamcast. First console to use a 2 processors (Duel core in effect) (reactionary to the PS1) Saturn, Back Compat, Power Base Adaptor for the Mega Drive. The Saturn 3D pad is the grandfather to the majority of controllers we see today.

The issue Sega had was its bickering between USA and Japan. USA had a deal lined up with Sony to do a joint 3d console to take down Nintendo, with Sony still pissed at Nintendo going with Phillips for the CD Tech. Sega Japan turned that down wanting to focus on 2d. Big mistake. The USA console division was ahead of the curve here, even Sony knew it and took what they learnt to make the PS1.

 

[Sonoshee]

Sega of that time wouldn't publish sequels for a game that wasn't successful for them.(Shenmue 2)
It is the same Sega that didn't release the rest of Shining Force 3 in the west after SF 3 episode 1.

They were still far more risky in the 90s than they are today, even if a game wasn't successful. Sega were taking losses on the Saturn and Dreamcast but they still put out innovative titles, many of which were sequels.

Edit:The only division of SEGA that was really ahead of their time was their arcade division. That is why arcade division was focused on making 3D games while the console Division wanted Sega Saturn to be a 2D console.

Again, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Many of Sega's in-house titles were light years ahead of the competition in terms of creativeness. Their developers pioneered a lot of the methods many take for granted today. I can understand people not enjoying them, but that's different to saying they weren't ahead of their time. Claiming Sega are better today than they were then, is extremely bold and bizarre to say the least.