SEGA Lounge Podcast: Interview with Cedric Biscay

Can we get a summary? I can’t listen.
 
Well, I will say they don't really talk about Shenmue IV.
 
TwiceFriedRice said:
Can we get a summary? I can’t listen.
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Well I have listened until minute 18 for now. and so far:

1.The work on Shenmue 3 began at 2014.

2.The epic deal was made by the publisher(Deep Silver) not him or Yu Suzuki and he said that they didn't get any money out of it.

Edit :3.He wanted to make the final chapter longer but due to budget they weren't able to do it.
 
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Dg1995 said:
He wanted to make the final chapter longer but due to budget they weren't able to do it.
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I will have to listen to this when I get a chance but this is an interesting revelation, many of us speculated after finishing the game. I would love to know how they originally intended the chapter (I’m assuming he’s referring to Old Castle) played out and if there was more story planned, or additional gameplay to link to those existing story beats.

It definitely felt heavily condensed and some of the scene changes felt very abrupt, leading many of us to this conclusion.
 
That's pretty much the long and short of it. He says they only had so much money to make the game and that it was never presented as a AAA game. He also feels the marketing and communication from the team were lacking. But overall he's proud of the game and can't understand why a Shenmue fan would not enjoy Shenmue 3. He says something like, "It's not GTA." Bit dismissive, but I get his point. As far as sales figures are concerned, he basically just says he read it lived up to expectations. I'm a bit surprised an investor and co-producer would not have access to better figures, but alas--maybe he's not privileged to say.
 
mjqjazzbar said:
That's pretty much the long and short of it. He says they only had so much money to make the game and that it was never presented as a AAA game. He also feels the marketing and communication from the team were lacking. But overall he's proud of the game and can't understand why a Shenmue fan would not enjoy Shenmue 3. He says something like, "It's not GTA." Bit dismissive, but I get his point. As far as sales figures are concerned, he basically just says he read it lived up to expectations. I'm a bit surprised an investor and co-producer would not have access to better figures, but alas--maybe he's not privileged to say.
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To add to that, the Q&A last week he said the Deep Silver hadn't given him of YSNET the sales figures as yet. He found out about the expectations bit when we did, so he's basically in our boat with that one.
 
mjqjazzbar said:
That's pretty much the long and short of it. He says they only had so much money to make the game and that it was never presented as a AAA game. He also feels the marketing and communication from the team were lacking. But overall he's proud of the game and can't understand why a Shenmue fan would not enjoy Shenmue 3. He says something like, "It's not GTA." Bit dismissive, but I get his point.
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No disrespect to Biscay as I can only speak for myself, but it sounds like he is not paying attention to what the fans have been saying. I think it's safe to say that nobody was expecting Shenmue to be on the same level as Grand Theft Auto. I think most fans simply wanted a better paced more in-depth story, less convoluted mechanics, and more consistency with the first two games. Personally, if all of Shenmue III took place in Bailu with a deeper plot, I really wouldn't have cared.

Also, he's unintentionally making a Scotsman type of fallacy here. Fans who criticize Shenmue are just as much fans as those who praise it. Fans who usually criticize something usually do so because they really love what it is they're criticizing and want it to do better. It's not something done out of malicious hate for the franchise, or for those who enjoyed what they did not.

That being said though, I think the circumstances surrounding this game do excuse some of its faults. People need to realize that some things were going to be on the cheap side. Especially considering the scope and scale a series like Shenmue is known for. So if you were expecting Shenmue III to live up contemporary gaming standards, then you're going to be disappointed.
 
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He does sound a bit out of the loop on the fans’ main criticism: Story, Story, Story. Two back to back areas that almost overlap with how identical they flow... no development of main characters, plotholes, etc. That stuff had been discussed at this point to exhaustion, so it would of been nice if he acknowledged it rather than being dismissive
 
More people read the forums than you think. Again during the Q&A last week he said he's seen the criticisms and understands the story stuff. He said he found the ending frustrating too.
 
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Am I the only one that thinks criticisms for lack of character development is wrong ?

Because Shenmue 1 and 2 offered no character development regarding Ryo's character. And at the end of S2 he was still the same character that was at the beginning of 1.(With just a little more Martial Arts experience)

Shenmue is a franchise that doesn't want to instantly change the characters.(Unlike other franchises that after few cutscenes the characters just change from the way they were before.)
 
Dg1995 said:
Am I the only one that thinks criticisms for lack of character development is wrong ?

Because Shenmue 1 and 2 offered no character development regarding Ryo's character. And at the end of S2 he was still the same character that was at the beginning of 1.(With just a little more Martial Arts experience)

Shenmue is a franchise that doesn't want to instantly change the characters.(Unlike other franchises that after few cutscenes the characters just change from the way they were before.)
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For me it's not that I & II had really deep or complex characters, it's that you had the option to deepen your relationships with people if you put the effort in, and the side characters typically had satisfying arcs.

There's some of this in Bailu, on par with what I'd expect from a more budget Shenmue experience. Unfortunately Niaowu really lacks in both regards -- with shallow characters and unsatisfying arcs -- and it leaves a bad taste in a lot of players' mouths.
 
Dg1995 said:
Am I the only one that thinks criticisms for lack of character development is wrong ?

Because Shenmue 1 and 2 offered no character development regarding Ryo's character. And at the end of S2 he was still the same character that was at the beginning of 1.(With just a little more Martial Arts experience)

Shenmue is a franchise that doesn't want to instantly change the characters.(Unlike other franchises that after few cutscenes the characters just change from the way they were before.)
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I'm somewhere between the two actually. You do see some snippets of Ryo's development in the games, little chinks. The one that stood out for me is when he was practicing Tai Chi in Shenmue II in Guilin.

Orient is right in that in the previous games there were little arcs if you wanted to explore them and also I feel the cast had more depth.

Ryo specifically wont have changed much. He's still hellbent on revenge and while his actions have gotten him fired, saved Zhu and ended up having the castle burnt down they've not directly impacted anyone he cares about severely. You could argue Nozomi in Shenmue 1 but that was more a ploy to get to him.

This is why, in my view, Shenmue 4 will have someone die (probably Ren) as a direct consequence of Ryo's actions. That will then trigger a change in Ryo around his lust for revenge.
 
I think Cédric is being pretty fair and honest, considering he's Shenmue III co-producer.
There are many factors to take into account when judging the final game.
The development wasn't a long quiet river.
The team around Yu Suzuki has been basically build up from scratch and it was their first major project. Can we agree that Shenmue III is a hell of a challenge for a newly gathered dev team?
Last but not least, Shenmue III is more than ever the vision of one man. For better or worse.

With all that said, I have no doubt Yu Suzuki and YsNet have thrown all their heart and energy to make the best possible game. Far from perfect, but still way way way better than a series stuck into a cave.
 
Dg1995 said:
Am I the only one that thinks criticisms for lack of character development is wrong ?

Because Shenmue 1 and 2 offered no character development regarding Ryo's character. And at the end of S2 he was still the same character that was at the beginning of 1.(With just a little more Martial Arts experience)
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I don't think the criticism for lack of character development in Shenmue III is aimed at Ryo. Neither to Shenhua nor Ren, mostly. It's about the rest of the cast basically, which feel really unsubstantial and uninteresting compared to the other main characters in previous games.

Kiske said:
Last but not least, Shenmue III is more than ever the vision of one man. For better or worse.
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I have the feeling this is a key factor and it's not discussed enough. We know things like the logo have been directly made by Yu Suzuki himself, and we have reports that the plot was made by him too. And Yu Suzuki is a brilliant man and a pioneer and a genius, but he's an engineer. It's really likely he had much more people around him in the Sega days, giving him expertise in many different areas, than now.
 
Yes, maybe we have a slight case of George Lucas Syndrome with Yu, of course on a much, much more modest scale than Star Wars. But the similarities are there. A great engineer and visionary but an extremely clumsy writer and horrible storyteller.
 
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