Shenmue 3 Improvements/Keeps For Shenmue 4

Joined
Feb 18, 2021
There’s a lot to unpack in your post so I will just concentrate on the camera. There’s nothing wrong weighty controls, that’s why I love Killzone 2 because the combination of the player movements, setting and animation ties into all of this.

Shenmue 3 is a very different beast and I think the modded camera is far more suitable in a few aspects. First the game as some have noted almost has a fish eyed FOV and the new camera makes it feel less extreme, how ones natural eyes would be. In addition having camera pulled back and seeing Ryo’s feet make contact better grounds the player. I know Suzuki has said in interviews the camera seen here was what he intended for original games but couldn’t because of technical limitations but I hope if there is a Shenmue 4 he tweaks what we see here.
I understand you clearly and I agree. In addition: To be more precise and going deeply into what you had pointed...When Ryo's - changing directions-, if you fix eyes on back of his shoes, you can see there's a floaty point in middle of a movement, there's no 100% contact and weight, again when aproaching stairs too...this is almost imperceptible while running or going straight though...to exagerate It's like a hockey player, the foots or the floors are moving more or less than the other as somwhat icy - in some midle point of a movement -.
So, from there, in my opinion, dreamcast technology allowed 100% contact all the time in all directions and speeds - for the most part - . Lacked the fov thought...Unreal Engine or other modern technology allows Fov playing, blooms, blurs, fish eyed, particles, particles deformation, millions more polygons, resolution, texture deformation and so on, but lacks in the weight, movements, and realistic physics, as in quality, not quantity. It's like less is more type of thing.

That's why I think they hide it, for you to focus on the landscape and not the character.

And I suspect Suzuki doesn't like todays techonolgy in this regard for this and other reasons.

In other areas, like Ryo's clothes, there's a pic of a DC Ryo compared to a PS4 Ryo...the colors and the weight of the image as a whole, lots of people are judging old graphics better...
Ideally the quality of that technology mixed with the quantity of todays would be the best.

I liked that you've seen there's a lot to unpack, it's a long topic...as discusing if Blue Ray is better than VHS, or CD to Vynil, not always things are evolving in all areas.

Salute to you.
 
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Joined
Feb 18, 2021
The best example lays in the battle system. A one foot kick, the ground feet is in one place, and then the whole character floats to another place resting the ground feet in another place, like there's no friction or a movement that justify that travel over floor. Obviously, the reason that happen in battles is another background story, but just so to better example it.

These reasons makes me interpret Suzuki's phrases of like : "I will try to do the best with what we have, to do the best Shenmue experiencie posible today" in a different way as others. Cause if technology has evolved so much in 20 years, budget can't be a restriction...to do better things than in past, in less time, with better and easy tools...
 
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The Good Elements Of Shenmue 3
The environments
The capsule toys
The arcade games
Return of Ryo's voice actor
Being able to change Ryo's clothes
The Sega Saturn easter egg

The Bad Elements Of Shenmue 3
Mainly the health/stamina system
Grinding way to much money to progress story
The lack of story
Ryo being a complete joke in the game
Copying and pasting the two big guys storyline for Baliu and Niaowu
The fight with Lan-Di
The basic fighting mechanic
Not being able to skip dialog when speaking to an npc the first time
Learing the same move but in reverse
Ren finding a bootleg phoenix mirror at a store
Shenhua's new outfit (I don't really mind the outfit I just prefer to original.)
Reusing too much of the same music from the old games and barely creating any new ones

Improvements You'd Make
Remove the health system, or make it were you only lose health during fighting segments and not in the on foot segments
Add more original arcades (like maybe a shooter, a fighting game not counting that bird fighting game, and a racing game.)
Create an in depth fighting system
Ryo at least hitting Lan-Di once in the finale fight
 
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
The Bad Elements Of Shenmue 3
Not being able to skip dialog when speaking to an npc the first time

Improvements You'd Make
Ryo at least hitting Lan-Di once in the finale fight
They patched the ability to skip dialogue with NPC’s shortly after release.

The fight with Lan Di was completely consistent with what they had been building for 2 plus games now. Ryo is woefully underprepared in terms of sheer skill level to legitimately threaten Lan Di. While he has improved, the fact he couldn’t hit Xuixing or Master Bei in this all but confirmed Ryo at present is no match for Lan Di and that’s something about Shenmue 3’s ending they got completely right.
 
Joined
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Shenmue II
Currently playing
Daytona USA Iraq version
They patched the ability to skip dialogue with NPC’s shortly after release.

The fight with Lan Di was completely consistent with what they had been building for 2 plus games now. Ryo is woefully underprepared in terms of sheer skill level to legitimately threaten Lan Di. While he has improved, the fact he couldn’t hit Xuixing or Master Bei in this all but confirmed Ryo at present is no match for Lan Di and that’s something about Shenmue 3’s ending they got completely right.
I'm glad they added the ability to skip the npc's dialog. On the other note I understand why Ryo couldn't lay a punch on Lan-Di, I just thought it would be cool if he hit him with like the counter elbow assualt or something like that.
 

gladias9

Waiting for Shenmue 3 Snyder Cut
Joined
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Shenmue II
They patched the ability to skip dialogue with NPC’s shortly after release.

The fight with Lan Di was completely consistent with what they had been building for 2 plus games now. Ryo is woefully underprepared in terms of sheer skill level to legitimately threaten Lan Di. While he has improved, the fact he couldn’t hit Xuixing or Master Bei in this all but confirmed Ryo at present is no match for Lan Di and that’s something about Shenmue 3’s ending they got completely right.
I also understand why Ryo couldn't land a hit.. but this is some serious 500+ chapter manga pacing here (actually, why hasn't a manga happened yet???)

With 3 games of training I expect Yu Suzuki to write in Ryo's growth as a martial artist at some point. But so far no matter how many martial artists Ryo meets it still doesn't happen..

So I guess I'm asking.. what do you guys think needs to happen before Ryo is ready?
 
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
With 3 games of training I expect Yu Suzuki to write in Ryo's growth as a martial artist at some point. But so far no matter how many martial artists Ryo meets it still doesn't happen..
He has though, from being able to beat street punks like Enoki, to dangerous street fighters in Kowloon all the way to Baihu and Don Nui at the end of Shenmue 2. In Shenmue 3 Ryo adds additional powerful Bajiquan moves to his repertoire and fighters of increased ability (As inconsistent as it was done). Even Lan Di comments that his skill has improved.

I think the point you are making is when will he be proficient enough to challenge Lan Di. Unless there’s a time skip I have a hard time believing Ryo can suddenly match Lan Di in a believable fashion. There’s a quote by Grandmaster Bei which stood out to me “I’m sure you of all people understand that martial arts cannot be learned overnight” Heck it’s one of the Wude, Gon -
Everyday, without neglect, to keep training. Ryo is repeatedly told his Kung Fu is lacking and he is looking for short cuts without diligent training. Thus I think a time skip is one plausible option.

The other is Lan Di and him become uneasy alliance against Niao Sun and the Chiyoumen and that point becomes moot, or we see him raise his martial arts to a certain level but with the help of Shenhua’s latent power it helps overcome him.

Of course this is all speculation and the story could zag in a completely different direction.
 
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So I guess I'm asking.. what do you guys think needs to happen before Ryo is ready?
I’m sticking with Ren’s death. For Ryo to become ready, he first needs to accept that he is not ready. Given that he still hasn’t done so despite being told by countless masters and being unable to land a single blow on Lan Di tells me that it’s going to take something extreme.
 
Joined
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sppeac1987
Yeah, I tend to think Ren might die at some point down the line as well. The scene where he points out the Big Dipper in the sky might be foreshadowing this, as I’m sure Shenhua later mentions this can be a harbinger of doom, or something?
 

Revan

Excuse me...gorgeous
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Die Hard Arcade...YIPEE KI YAY!
I'd really hate it if Ren died, personally. Right now, Ryo needs to find friendship as per Iwao's last words to help work through his grief. Killing off a newly acquired friend who Ryo has become close with would feel like it would start off the cycles of revenge all over again.
 
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Strider (2014)
I also understand why Ryo couldn't land a hit.. but this is some serious 500+ chapter manga pacing here (actually, why hasn't a manga happened yet???)

With 3 games of training, I expect Yu Suzuki to write in Ryo's growth as a martial artist at some point. But so far no matter how many martial artists Ryo meets it still doesn't happen.

So I guess I'm asking.. what do you guys think needs to happen before Ryo is ready?
Well, it's understandable seeing as how only forty percent of the story has been told according to Suzuki. As for when he's ready to fight Longsun Zhao on equal terms, that's honestly a good question. Iwao Hazuki an experienced and powerful martial artist couldn't even land a blow against him.

While I hate engaging in speculation, I remember Suzuki stating that Ryo will eventually abandon his quest for revenge. So if I had to guess, Ryo will put the pain of his father's death behind him to answer some higher calling. If there is a Shenmue IV, I hope we finally learn what that calling is and the meaning of the prophecy we were supposed to learn about in Shenmue III.
 
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sppeac1987
I'd really hate it if Ren died, personally. Right now, Ryo needs to find friendship as per Iwao's last words to help work through his grief. Killing off a newly acquired friend who Ryo has become close with would feel like it would start off the cycles of revenge all over again.
Yes, but I think it would be a powerful moment because of Iwao’s last words- it might be what finally forces him to realise how dangerous his quest for revenge is. But who knows- Ren may well survive to the end, but it’s interesting to speculate!
 
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
I don't think Ren will die. I think the heartbreaking moment will be Shenhua's fate, she releases the seals on the mirrors, the north star glistens, she knows it's her time, and she has to guide the Dragon and the Phoenix into the stars. Shenhua and Ryo will say their goodbyes and she will fade away in 'a purple wind' and a wave of petals. After the credits there may be a clue she can be reborn, but first she will have to pass on to the place beyond.

The other heart breaker will be Xiuying, the most calm and guarded character, has to subdue her brother who has chosen the path of evil, she performs Demon's Triangle, but it's a mortal blow and she kills him. She cradles her brother and holds their Yin/Yang stone, accepting her light and her darkness.

I think there will be so much bittersweetness in the final entry, that it won't be necessary to kill Ren off as well. Ren is someone Ryo has to save, he's obsessed with treasure, my gut feeling is that is what drove a wedge between Sunming and Iwao, and Ryo will learn from his father's sin, to not allow Ren to walk the same path.
 
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I don't think Ren will die. I think the heartbreaking moment will be Shenhua's fate, she releases the seals on the mirrors, the north star glistens, she knows it's her time, and she has to guide the Dragon and the Phoenix into the stars. Shenhua and Ryo will say their goodbyes and she will fade away in 'a purple wind' and a wave of petals. After the credits there may be a clue she can be reborn, but first she will have to pass on to the place beyond.

The other heart breaker will be Xiuying, the most calm and guarded character, has to subdue her brother who has chosen the path of evil, she performs Demon's Triangle, but it's a mortal blow and she kills him. She cradles her brother and holds their Yin/Yang stone, accepting her light and her darkness.

I think there will be so much bittersweetness in the final entry, that it won't be necessary to kill Ren off as well. Ren is someone Ryo has to save, he's obsessed with treasure, my gut feeling is that is what drove a wedge between Sunming and Iwao, and Ryo will learn from his father's sin, to not allow Ren to walk the same path.
While there are obvious parallels between Ren and Ryo when it comes to their single-mindedness, I don’t think Ren is anywhere near as obsessed with treasure as Ryo is with vengeance. Sure, he wants it, but not enough to give up all of his other pursuits and certainly not enough to needlessly risk his life. Ren still sees reason where Ryo doesn’t. He doesn’t need to be saved (at least not from himself, anyway).

The series’ climax will no doubt have some interesting twists and turns, but I think a lot still needs to happen before Ryo can arrive at that point. Yu has strongly hinted that Ryo will eventually choose to turn his back on revenge, although for that to really mean anything he needs to be in a position to actually take it, which right now he isn’t.

It’s possible that something will just suddenly click with him, but given what’s happened already (his father getting effortlessly murdered in front of him, countless people telling him he’s not ready, Lan Di batting away away his attacks without breaking a sweat, etc), it would feel a little cheap if one day he just decided that he needs more training without any kind of trigger. Granted, that trigger needn’t necessarily be Ren’s death, but I think it has to be something pretty big.

I suppose learning that his father actually killed Sunming Zhao and / or that the fate of the world is resting on him changing course (leading to an uneasy alliance of sorts with Lan Di) could do it, but it still wouldn’t mean quite as much if he never actually becomes strong enough to at least stand a chance of exacting revenge.
 
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
While there are obvious parallels between Ren and Ryo when it comes to their single-mindedness, I don’t think Ren is anywhere near as obsessed with treasure as Ryo is with vengeance. Sure, he wants it, but not enough to give up all of his other pursuits and certainly not enough to needlessly risk his life. Ren still sees reason where Ryo doesn’t. He doesn’t need to be saved (at least not from himself, anyway).

The series’ climax will no doubt have some interesting twists and turns, but I think a lot still needs to happen before Ryo can arrive at that point. Yu has strongly hinted that Ryo will eventually choose to turn his back on revenge, although for that to really mean anything he needs to be in a position to actually take it, which right now he isn’t.

It’s possible that something will just suddenly click with him, but given what’s happened already (his father getting effortlessly murdered in front of him, countless people telling him he’s not ready, Lan Di batting away away his attacks without breaking a sweat, etc), it would feel a little cheap if one day he just decided that he needs more training without any kind of trigger. Granted, that trigger needn’t necessarily be Ren’s death, but I think it has to be something pretty big.

I suppose learning that his father actually killed Sunming Zhao and / or that the fate of the world is resting on him changing course (leading to an uneasy alliance of sorts with Lan Di) could do it, but it still wouldn’t mean quite as much if he never actually becomes strong enough to at least stand a chance of exacting revenge.
I think Ren will be presented as a contrast to Niao Sun as well. She's greedy for power and I think she will want to rebuild the CYM in her image with the fortune amassed from the treasure, red phoenix and rebirth. Sun's plans will backfire when the treasure has a price attached, a trap or a curse, and I think Ryo will stop that happening to Ren, whose the only 1 out of the main 3 whose obssessed with treasure. I think that's his arc.
 
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
While it made perfect sense for Ryo not to be able to land a hit on Lan Di, I also felt that from a pacing perspective it doesn't make sense for Ryo to improve that much over the remainder of the story. However, I'm reserving judgement on whether S3 handled that fight properly depending on how the ending plays out. I have a feeling that Ryo will never be better than Lan Di by the end of the story. If anything his progression in martial arts over the saga might lead him to landing that blow on Lan Di at the end, but not defeating him in combat. We have to remember that this Shenmue started as a backstory to Akira, so it doesn't make sense that Ryo ends the story as a master but rather someone who has a new resolve to continue training. Especially if the ending has nothing to do with him getting revenge in the traditional sense.
 
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
While it made perfect sense for Ryo not to be able to land a hit on Lan Di, I also felt that from a pacing perspective it doesn't make sense for Ryo to improve that much over the remainder of the story. However, I'm reserving judgement on whether S3 handled that fight properly depending on how the ending plays out. I have a feeling that Ryo will never be better than Lan Di by the end of the story. If anything his progression in martial arts over the saga might lead him to landing that blow on Lan Di at the end, but not defeating him in combat. We have to remember that this Shenmue started as a backstory to Akira, so it doesn't make sense that Ryo ends the story as a master but rather someone who has a new resolve to continue training. Especially if the ending has nothing to do with him getting revenge in the traditional sense.
I think maybe next time they fight, Lan Di will be unbalanced because his faith and convictions have been challenged, and he learns how his father actually died. Ryo might not be able to defeat him, but he might be able to hold him off long enough, for Shenhua to fulfil her destiny and break the seals on the mirrors.
 

BruceWayne911

Upper Knuckle (⬅️ ⬅️ 🤜)
Joined
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Shenmue II
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Shenmue 3 & Yakuza Kiwami
While it made perfect sense for Ryo not to be able to land a hit on Lan Di, I also felt that from a pacing perspective it doesn't make sense for Ryo to improve that much over the remainder of the story. However, I'm reserving judgement on whether S3 handled that fight properly depending on how the ending plays out. I have a feeling that Ryo will never be better than Lan Di by the end of the story. If anything his progression in martial arts over the saga might lead him to landing that blow on Lan Di at the end, but not defeating him in combat. We have to remember that this Shenmue started as a backstory to Akira, so it doesn't make sense that Ryo ends the story as a master but rather someone who has a new resolve to continue training. Especially if the ending has nothing to do with him getting revenge in the traditional sense.
Agreed, after beating Shenmue 3 it seems unrealistic for Ryo to catch up with Lan Di with only 2 games left. Others have mentioned that there maybe a time skip with Shenmue 4&5. If there is a significant enough time skip then I could handle it better but we have to see some serious progress in Shenmue 4.

While I disagreed with the majority of SEPW video on Shenmue 3 I did like his alternate ending. A ending like that would have given hope of Ryo besting Lan Di. With all that said I still have supreme faith in Yu Suzuki so he knows whats best.

I believe Shenmue 4 will be a big deal as far as story and character progression. Cedric Biscay said in a tweet that they need a bigger budget to make Shenmue 4 a reality. That speaks volumes to the kind of game Shenmue 4 will be. A lot of assets are already in place and they still need a bigger budget. 🤞 Shenmue 4 announcement 2021
 
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