Shenmue 3 Sales

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shredingskin said:
It's not the voice acting (that is pretty meh to bad), the writing is just very stilted, Ryo (and NPCs also) always repeating the same lines, tedious dialogue that makes it stale quite fast:

Look at 55 seconds, that's the reaction that most people get.
One example that really stuck on my head is at the end of the game
Ryo says to Shenhua something like: You should go to Yuan, and Shenhua responds with "my father ?"
That's something that amateurs tend to do when introducing characters or as clutch when they are not really sure that the audience might follow the conversation or know the characters, but man, that was at the end of the game.
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I mean, they are not even playing it serious, they are just like "okay okay so explain me everything in 2 seconds gimme the facts gimme the reason of why this is a cult game".

And it's like, dude, fucking patience, relax, this is slow. You don't get it. You don't have to rush this. This isn't like that.
 
I know the guys try to make fun of it to make it entertaining, but It's not about "taking it slow" what I'm saying, "is that the village... up ahead ?" "yes, everyone lives up ahead" is just boring (and extremely redundant) writing, makes Ryo seem mentally deficient.
Really, anything would be better "what a nice place/ I can see why you like it here/ I didn't expect this place to be so old/ are all women here as hot as you? there must be something in the water /jk" there are tons of ways of writing throwaway dialogue.
And it's not like it's just that couple of lines, I remember another video by a newbie to Shenmue basically saying the same thing:

sometimes we can tune out of it (specially because we are used to that type writing), but trying to look at it with new eyes and trying to be objective, it just isn't good (and the voice acting isn't either).

Anyway, It's a thread about sales.
 
shredingskin said:
I know the guys try to make fun of it to make it entertaining, but It's not about "taking it slow" what I'm saying, "is that the village... up ahead ?" "yes, everyone lives up ahead" is just boring (and extremely redundant) writing, makes Ryo seem mentally deficient.
Really, anything would be better "what a nice place/ I can see why you like it here/ I didn't expect this place to be so old/ are all women here as hot as you? there must be something in the water /jk" there are tons of ways of writing throwaway dialogue.
And it's not like it's just that couple of lines, I remember another video by a newbie to Shenmue basically saying the same thing:

sometimes we can tune out of it (specially because we are used to that type writing), but trying to look at it with new eyes and trying to be objective, it just isn't good (and the voice acting isn't either).

Anyway, It's a thread about sales.
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There are plenty of modern games with more natural dialogue and the best audio recording money can buy but they still sound terrible and can't convey any sense of emotion. Mass Effect Andromeda springs to mind, all the resources of EA and their disposal and still no idea how to build a compelling world. I'll gladly take Shenmue 3's idiosyncratic dialogue over that sort of garbage any day.
 
shredingskin said:
I know the guys try to make fun of it to make it entertaining, but It's not about "taking it slow" what I'm saying, "is that the village... up ahead ?" "yes, everyone lives up ahead" is just boring (and extremely redundant) writing, makes Ryo seem mentally deficient.
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I know this may sound harsh but... Japanese people do speak like that. Japanese everyday speech is extremely redundant :) (I graduated in Japanese).
 
Is it true, that Yu directed the dialogue to be written base upon everyday cultural speech? That's something to be noted and praise then and not mocked. Hollywood esque-sophistry is nice and all but its so homogenized that "normal speak" feels like a breath of fresh air. Same thing with the "Anime-VO" within the Jap VA circles.
 
I’m fine with that. I just think the translation could be given a little more scrutiny so the things that don’t translate well into English make more sense. I’m fine with the more “dry” nature of the series; that’s Shenmue. And there’s always bits of humor if you go looking for them. I personally find the way the women in Bailu talk to Ryo pretty funny.
 
24Nathan said:
I get it. I agree in some instances. Shenmue has some issues with voice acting and scriptwriting and voice direction, I can get on board there. I just loathe when the same people who say every single line, every single actor/actress, EVERYTHING is "the worst it will ever be in the history of ever". You simply cannot look at Paul Lucas' Lan Di for example, and say that's bad acting. Don't like the script? Fine. His voice? Fine. But it simply isn't true for everything in this game. Every single time I've played all three games in either language, I've always thought the good voices outweighed the bad by a far margin. Not everyone has to share my opinion, so don't expect me to roll over and take yours shoved down my throat either (not directed at you specifically, just that crowd).

Edited...don't mean to come off so angry.
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There’s just too much hyperbole being spewed at times by some. I find myself trying to resist writing replies that come off as pissed off because it really shouldn’t get to me like it has been. Subjective opinions are fine and dandy, and I like having discussions about the game, but when opinions start being passed off as fact, and as a stick to beat the game with, it really begins to get on my nerves. Anywhoo...
 
Crimson said:
I know this may sound harsh but... Japanese people do speak like that. Japanese everyday speech is extremely redundant :) (I graduated in Japanese).
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The thing is, from a narrative perspective, what's the point of someone asking if "that's the village" ? And someone responding "that's where people live".
I've played and watched a lot of japanese media, and yes there's always the nanis, soka, etooooooooo, and so on, but not to the point of clarifying that people live in a village.
 
shredingskin said:
The thing is, from a narrative perspective, what's the point of someone asking if "that's the village" ? And someone responding "that's where people live".
I've played and watched a lot of japanese media, and yes there's always the nanis, soka, etooooooooo, and so on, but not to the point of clarifying that people live in a village.
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If Shenmue adopted the tropes of other open world games and didn’t use conversations etc. to lead you to you next destination but just arbitrarily added marks to your mini map forcing you to go exactly where the designers want you to go, you’d probably hear less of that kind of dialogue. I doubt they’re ever going to abandon the clueless Ryo who needs to hear everything spelled out twenty times thing. It’s Shenmue. Again, though, the localization needs some more care to make this stuff stand out less.
 
Just to add, but the job of a english translation is to make it sound like the dialogue was believably written in english, not like remove all japanese quirks, but to make the actual exchanges sound natural from a grammar stand point. For me the yakuza translations by Scott Strichart (y5 and up) are a gold standard of good translations that keep all the eccentricities and cultural meaning whilst also managing to make the dialogue naturally flow so that you never really register that this was from a language with a totally different structure you cant translate 1 to 1.

Contrasting that, shenmue 3 feel like they did just do a literal translation and didnt bother to change anything past the very literal results, which just feels like a half finished job, you cant go from japanese to english and not tweak it fairly massively. Thats why we got exchanges like "I'm looking for stonemasons" "no I havent", that shit sounds machine translated.
 
Yeah, hopefully if SEGA steps back in, the localization steps by the Yakuza team are used. I figure they probably do all of SEGA/Atlus' translations, don't they?
 
24Nathan said:
Yeah, hopefully if SEGA steps back in, the localization steps by the Yakuza team are used. I figure they probably do all of SEGA/Atlus' translations, don't they?
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Theres alot of them actually on translation duty so its not exactly the same team and I think the one for yakuza specifically is really small, like only a few people, like I recall how when they were busy on judgement they had a totally different group in atlus that did FOTNS which had a far wonkier translation that did actually feel like they lost the japanese quirks. Scott seems like he generally only works on yakuza now.

I've heard persona 5 was a pretty rough translation which I think Scott actually was on despite that, but i do not know the specifics on why its rough.
 
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jsh020 said:
I've heard persona 5 was a pretty rough translation which I think Scott actually was on despite that, but i do not know the specifics on why its rough.
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who's this Scott?
 
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mjqjazzbar said:
If Shenmue adopted the tropes of other open world games and didn’t use conversations etc. to lead you to you next destination but just arbitrarily added marks to your mini map forcing you to go exactly where the designers want you to go, you’d probably hear less of that kind of dialogue. I doubt they’re ever going to abandon the clueless Ryo who needs to hear everything spelled out twenty times thing. It’s Shenmue. Again, though, the localization needs some more care to make this stuff stand out less.
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It's about writing, a few posts back I made the example that even if it's throwaway lines, they are just boring and add nothing.
Instead of having that vapid exchange you can totally ellipse it, or add some characterization to it, they don't even do that.
Even games known to be very frugal in the narrative department aren't as stiff.

Imagine a pokemon NPC written in the Shenmue way:
X- This is my pikachu.
Y- A pikachu you say ?
X- Yes, it's a pokemon.
Y- Interesting.
X- You can catch them using pokeballs.
Y- Pokeballs ?
X- You can buy them at the market.
Y- So you catch pokemons with pokeballs and pikachu is a pokemon ?
X- Yes.
Y- I see.
 
shredingskin said:
It's about writing, a few posts back I made the example that even if it's throwaway lines, they are just boring and add nothing.
Instead of having that vapid exchange you can totally ellipse it, or add some characterization to it, they don't even do that.
Even games known to be very frugal in the narrative department aren't as stiff.

Imagine a pokemon NPC written in the Shenmue way:
X- This is my pikachu.
Y- A pikachu you say ?
X- Yes, it's a pokemon.
Y- Interesting.
X- You can catch them using pokeballs.
Y- Pokeballs ?
X- You can buy them at the market.
Y- So you catch pokemons with pokeballs and pikachu is a pokemon ?
X- Yes.
Y- I see.
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I guess this is just proof of how thoroughly Shenmue has damaged my brain, but this almost makes me want to play a pokemon game like this. Almost, because it's still pokemon.
 
shredingskin said:
It's about writing, a few posts back I made the example that even if it's throwaway lines, they are just boring and add nothing.
Instead of having that vapid exchange you can totally ellipse it, or add some characterization to it, they don't even do that.
Even games known to be very frugal in the narrative department aren't as stiff.

Imagine a pokemon NPC written in the Shenmue way:
X- This is my pikachu.
Y- A pikachu you say ?
X- Yes, it's a pokemon.
Y- Interesting.
X- You can catch them using pokeballs.
Y- Pokeballs ?
X- You can buy them at the market.
Y- So you catch pokemons with pokeballs and pikachu is a pokemon ?
X- Yes.
Y- I see.
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It's repetition in place of being forced to cover a map in symbols. I get what they're going for. That's the design of Shenmue. You talk to people and they give you 'useful' information, and sometimes you get beaten over the head with it. I assume the original Japanese is as repetitive and dry. We need to beg Ys Net to hire Atlus and forget the entire team that worked on Shenmue 3--these Lionsbridge people.
 
I like Shenmue the same way I like Columbo with Peter Falk. Both purposely takes time to explain things so you don't need to overfocus your mind and the experience becomes stress-free. In Columbo, the dumb dialogues help the viewer to develop his own theories, and also make the story funnier. In Shenmue, you can enjoy the exoticism in its full width and focus on any detail anytime like a Jacques Tati's film.

In modern storytelling, the scenarists want the dialogues to be informative and economical, generally for exclusive plot purposes and packing the most events as possible in one sequence because their narrative time is limited and people are starving of plot turnarounds and substantial material.

In Shenmue, it's quite the opposite. A game lasts 30 hours and Shenmue is contemplative. The aim is more to convey and enjoy characters's humanity and authenticity rather plot evolution or getting information. Shenmue wouldn't be Shenmue without this approach.

My only complain is most of the Ryo's eurekas felt absurd in Shenmue 3. When you just came from beating a Myst game, I admit that may be a bit annoying sometimes lol.
 
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