Shenmue 4 has to change if there's to be a Shenmue 5

Does Shenmue 4 need to change to make no.5?

  • Yes, I agree

    Votes: 17 19.3%

  • Yes, but not that drastically

    Votes: 50 56.8%

  • No, you're crazy

    Votes: 10 11.4%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 1 1.1%

  • No. Don't make a 5th. Finish with no.4

    Votes: 10 11.4%
  • Total voters
    88
9dragons said:
I have to agree. Just look at the games that are popular these days. These games have nothing in common with Shenmue. Shenmue has more in common with the old classic point and click adventures of the 90s than with any modern game. These genres lost popularity in the mid 90s already when 3d become a major factor in gaming. Unless the gaming taste changes differently Shenmue will never reach a critical mass. It is unfortunate but that is who things are. Style over substance is THE thing in the gaming industry now.
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That's how I try to sell Shenmue to people. Tell them it's more a Point n' Click game than an action adventure.
 
danielmann861 said:
Is it selfish and bad of me to say that I just want Shenmue to be Shenmue and I don't care if it isn't like every other game out there? I don't care if it doesn't appeal to the mainstream at this point. Look, I'm gonna be brutally honest here. I don't think there is a turning point for this series at this point in time to capture the mainstream. I think as that end number goes up, the more it's gonna have that old Yakuza problem. Where it's gonna get harder for people to jump in with every new game and thus it's gonna keep appealing to those who are already on board. Yes, I know Yakuza 0 changed everything for the franchise, but there was that time where it was considered "for the fans only" by almost everyone of note.

I think this series, as is, is always gonna be one that appeals mainly to us and no one else. I don't know if retooling it to capture that wider audience is enough at this point. Sure, we may get some newcomers along the way. But I think the chase for that wider audience gets harder and harder with every new game simply because of the perception of "it's one for the fans."

I think the only way you have a chance of capturing a mainstream wider audience would be to start from scratch and reboot the whole thing and retool to make it something that would appeal to a mainstream audience. But in doing that, you would lose everything that makes it what it is as it becomes something else. And I don't really want that. I like Shenmue for being Shenmue. I like the pacing of it. I like the fact that it's a calm game that simply asks you to exist in and explore its world. I like that money actually means something in this game. That they try to integrate every system to become meaningful. I like the casual pace of it.

Sure, there are quality of life things it could do to modernize. I actually applaud SIII for taking some of those steps to make it a little more modern feeling to play.

I think, if anything, Shenmue IV is going to resemble Shenmue II a lot more than it will resemble the first game. Much like SIII was very reminiscent of the first game with its small town vibes and take-its-own-time pace. I actually do think IV will pick the pace up and resemble SII more than it will anything else. I think IV will be a much more action packed game considering you're hot on the tails of Lan Di and the Chi You Men and I think it has all the potential to be more like SII. Which would be fine by me. That's really all I want from IV. Pick up the pacing, refine the story telling, flesh out the fighting engine. Just tighten everything up.

But in terms of retooling the game to capture the mainstream? Outside of rebooting the series from scratch and changing everything, I really don't know what else they can do at this point to capture that elusive audience.

I think we're the ones keeping this alive. Sure, it's great to get any newcomers that give it a chance and find something along the way, but getting that wider audience? I still feel its too late for Shenmue and the only way you would get that audience would be to reboot the series as a whole. Like it or not but there's still too much of that dated stigma around Shenmue in the wider audience. Still too much of the "it's one for the fans only" stigma. We saw that with SIII and the reviews that came out. The only way to break that at this point would be to simply reboot the franchise and start over.

I mean I hope SIV can make the fixes it needs and at least get some decent word of mouth, but I just fear its too late and the stigma is gonna always be around Shenmue...so at this point, I stopped caring about that wider audience. Let Shenmue be the Shenmue I love and just accept we love something others don't. Even if that isn't financially responsible.

I just want the series to see its way to the end as we know and love it for what it is. I'd rather it potentially die as its self than die attempting to change and become something else to get an audience that doesn't care for it. Not that I want it to die at all. I think, if they play it smart and keep the budgets down, they can probably get to S5 based on us. There's enough of an audience here to keep it going. Even those who didn't like SIII in this community I can guarantee will return for IV if it comes to be. I just think that chase for the wider audience gets harder as the "only for the fans" stigma around the franchise grows.
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Took the words out of my mouth. Agree with this 100%.

This series has been trying to become mainstream since 1999, and every time it keeps stumbling because the wider audience is just not there for it. Shenmue 3 tried to make things more accessible (smoother controls, fast travel, side quests, RE4 camera) and that wasn't enough. The anime should pull in a few newcomers, but I feel that trying to make Shenmue reach a critical mass (especially now as we're nearing the end of the story) would be like trying to make something as similarly niche as Jet Set Radio or Panzer Dragoon rub shoulders with the likes of Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty and Uncharted - it's never going to happen.
 
danielmann861 said:
Is it selfish and bad of me to say that I just want Shenmue to be Shenmue and I don't care if it isn't like every other game out there? I don't care if it doesn't appeal to the mainstream at this point. Look, I'm gonna be brutally honest here. I don't think there is a turning point for this series at this point in time to capture the mainstream. I think as that end number goes up, the more it's gonna have that old Yakuza problem. Where it's gonna get harder for people to jump in with every new game and thus it's gonna keep appealing to those who are already on board. Yes, I know Yakuza 0 changed everything for the franchise, but there was that time where it was considered "for the fans only" by almost everyone of note.

I think this series, as is, is always gonna be one that appeals mainly to us and no one else. I don't know if retooling it to capture that wider audience is enough at this point. Sure, we may get some newcomers along the way. But I think the chase for that wider audience gets harder and harder with every new game simply because of the perception of "it's one for the fans."

I think the only way you have a chance of capturing a mainstream wider audience would be to start from scratch and reboot the whole thing and retool to make it something that would appeal to a mainstream audience. But in doing that, you would lose everything that makes it what it is as it becomes something else. And I don't really want that. I like Shenmue for being Shenmue. I like the pacing of it. I like the fact that it's a calm game that simply asks you to exist in and explore its world. I like that money actually means something in this game. That they try to integrate every system to become meaningful. I like the casual pace of it.

Sure, there are quality of life things it could do to modernize. I actually applaud SIII for taking some of those steps to make it a little more modern feeling to play.

I think, if anything, Shenmue IV is going to resemble Shenmue II a lot more than it will resemble the first game. Much like SIII was very reminiscent of the first game with its small town vibes and take-its-own-time pace. I actually do think IV will pick the pace up and resemble SII more than it will anything else. I think IV will be a much more action packed game considering you're hot on the tails of Lan Di and the Chi You Men and I think it has all the potential to be more like SII. Which would be fine by me. That's really all I want from IV. Pick up the pacing, refine the story telling, flesh out the fighting engine. Just tighten everything up.

But in terms of retooling the game to capture the mainstream? Outside of rebooting the series from scratch and changing everything, I really don't know what else they can do at this point to capture that elusive audience.

I think we're the ones keeping this alive. Sure, it's great to get any newcomers that give it a chance and find something along the way, but getting that wider audience? I still feel its too late for Shenmue and the only way you would get that audience would be to reboot the series as a whole. Like it or not but there's still too much of that dated stigma around Shenmue in the wider audience. Still too much of the "it's one for the fans only" stigma. We saw that with SIII and the reviews that came out. The only way to break that at this point would be to simply reboot the franchise and start over.

I mean I hope SIV can make the fixes it needs and at least get some decent word of mouth, but I just fear its too late and the stigma is gonna always be around Shenmue...so at this point, I stopped caring about that wider audience. Let Shenmue be the Shenmue I love and just accept we love something others don't. Even if that isn't financially responsible.

I just want the series to see its way to the end as we know and love it for what it is. I'd rather it potentially die as its self than die attempting to change and become something else to get an audience that doesn't care for it. Not that I want it to die at all. I think, if they play it smart and keep the budgets down, they can probably get to S5 based on us. There's enough of an audience here to keep it going. Even those who didn't like SIII in this community I can guarantee will return for IV if it comes to be. I just think that chase for the wider audience gets harder as the "only for the fans" stigma around the franchise grows.
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This is something you should tell Yu Suzuki then. Otherwise, I hope you're willing to pay double or triple the amount of money on a proverbial Shenmue IV to make up for the losses. Then there's the fact that Shenmue has become more casually friendly with each game. To me, Shenmue Chapter One: Yokosuka is "Shenmue" so to speak.

To be honest, as long as Suzuki is leading at the creative helm, I am not too worried about him wanting to expand the audience. It would honestly be no different than the transition from Shenmue Chapter One: Yokosuka to Shenmue II.

Finally, I want the absolute best for this series. I want to see it end with a bang, not a whimper. And the only way to go about that is for it to have a hefty budget.
 
Tsukuyomimagi99 said:
This is something you should tell Yu Suzuki then. Otherwise, I hope you're willing to pay double or triple the amount of money on a proverbial Shenmue IV to make up for the losses. Then there's the fact that Shenmue has become more casually friendly with each game. To me, Shenmue Chapter One: Yokosuka is "Shenmue" so to speak.

To be honest, as long as Suzuki is leading at the creative helm, I am not too worried about him wanting to expand the audience. It would honestly be no different than the transition from Shenmue Chapter One: Yokosuka to Shenmue II.

Finally, I want the absolute best for this series. I want to see it end with a bang, not a whimper. And the only way to go about that is for it to have a hefty budget.
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I think that train has long left the station though. Maybe if Shenmue III had sold gangbusters on launch we would have seen a AAA Shenmue IV greenlit within the week of release. But it didn't and now we're back to YSNET pitching Shenmue IV to a hopeful publisher.

If it keeps going, it keeps going at a Double A budget similar to SIII. It's never gonna be what it once was on the Dreamcast...as much as I would love the full AAA godly Shenmue experience, I have to keep my feet on the ground based on the reaction to Shenmue III. If this series continues, it continues on a budget is what I'm calling and it will be a make the best of what we have situation.

I just don't know how you can change the stigma that Shenmue has with the mainstream. Yes, we're converted. But the mainstream who isn't still doesn't see it in that light. I think that's the hurdle that's always going to be hard to overcome at this point in time.

And if that's to be the case, then I'd rather it be the Shenmue I know and love on a lesser budget than trying to become something it isn't in hope that it's gonna capture the audience that will still most likely dismiss it.

Anyways, my hope for Shenmue IV is that it learns from Shenmue II and follows in its footsteps a little more.
 
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You will never get the mainstream to respect Shenmue what it is and we cannot even dream about the day when the Mainstream starts to cherish Shenmue.

Most gamers did not knew Shenmue back then or did not like it. They see it with all the other games they played. For them GTA 3 was one of the first open world games. Compared to Shenmue GTA 3 gameplay is a bit more vast. Not as deep or sophisticated as Shenmue but more vast. More random meaningless stuff to do. That equals to more fun for some gamers.

Later these gamers where influenced other mainstream open worldish games which have nothing to do with Shenmue.

Not to mention the silly Yakuza Shenmue comparisons.

As long that there is no mainstream social media influencer that can influence the gaming kids of these days to see Shenmue with a different angle and just not blindly compare it with other more modern games it will never get the recognition it deserves.

Converting Shenmue to cater the mainstream taste is a Mission impossible. It would just alienate the fanbase and the mainstream will still not like it.
 
danielmann861 said:
I think that train has long left the station though. Maybe if Shenmue III had sold gangbusters on launch we would have seen a AAA Shenmue IV greenlit within the week of release. But it didn't and now we're back to YSNET pitching Shenmue IV to a hopeful publisher.

If it keeps going, it keeps going at a Double A budget similar to SIII. It's never gonna be what it once was on the Dreamcast...as much as I would love the full AAA godly Shenmue experience, I have to keep my feet on the ground-based on the reaction to Shenmue III. If this series continues, it continues on a budget is what I'm calling and it will be a make the best of what we have a situation.

I just don't know how you can change the stigma that Shenmue has with the mainstream. Yes, we're converted. But the mainstream who isn't still doesn't see it in that light. I think that's the hurdle that's always going to be hard to overcome at this point.

And if that's to be the case, then I'd rather it be the Shenmue I know and love on a lesser budget than trying to become something it isn't in hope that it's gonna capture the audience that will still most likely dismiss it.

Anyways, my hope for Shenmue IV is that it learns from Shenmue II and follows in its footsteps a little more.
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As I have stated in the past, I will support Yu Suzuki's Shenmue series till the end. I don't care if the series is a huge AAA mainstream hit or a AA niche title. However, becoming more mainstream is what Suzuki wants, not me. One of the ways you do this is by presenting a product of exceptionally high quality.

If we do get a Shenmue IV, I am not going to be too worried since the infrastructure has been built with Shenmue III. Then there's the fact that technology keeps evolving and becoming cheaper. I have seen games with exceptional production values based on a minimum budget.

And finally like I said before, as long as Suzuki is steering the ship, I don't think that Shenmue will lose its creative essence. As Ryan Payton once stated, Yu Suzuki is a very stubborn visionary. The simple reality though is that Shenmue needs money to survive. So if it isn't a mainstream hit, be prepared to buy multiple copies of Shenmue IV.
 
There are very simple things Shenmue needs to be successful.
Good combat
Good story
Consumer trust
One of these is never coming back. The other two can still be remedied.
 
gladias9 said:
There are very simple things Shenmue needs to be successful.
Good combat
Good story
Consumer trust
One of these is never coming back. The other two can still be remedied.
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I believe Shenmue can regain the publics trust. Shenmue is a beloved niche series. Lots of high up gaming media/developers love the franchise. For all the missteps/backlash Shenmue 3 received its still nowhere as bad as some bigger franchise. Cyberpunk 2077, Fallout 76, Batman Arkham Knight, Watchdogs, etc. Consumers are forgiving, if Shenmue 4 improves on the missteps of Shenmue 3 people will support. Within reason for a niche title.
 
BruceWayne911 said:
I believe Shenmue can regain the publics trust. Shenmue is a beloved niche series. Lots of high up gaming media/developers love the franchise. For all the missteps/backlash Shenmue 3 received its still nowhere as bad as some bigger franchise. Cyberpunk 2077, Fallout 76, Batman Arkham Knight, Watchdogs, etc. Consumers are forgiving, if Shenmue 4 improves on the missteps of Shenmue 3 people will support. Within reason for a niche title.
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I don’t think public trust really has anything to do with it. If the game is good and available on the right platforms, people will buy it.
 
And effectively advertised. The original DC commercials were weird. I used to think Corey Marshall was in them, especially the mental hospital and the "Who's Nozomi?" ones.
 
Yes, those advertisements worked for their time for sure.The Dreamcast went back to their crazy advertising days here and there, but took it to a different direction.
 
I'd rather not have another Shenmue than having to pervert it to appeal the masses. Masses that either way still wouldn't care about it. You talk as if Yakuza sells a ton of games and that only happens in Japan, outside Japan it resurrected with 0 but still have very poor sales compared to its budget. Without Japan, Yakuza would no longer exist.
 
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