Shenmue III - What Happened? ft. Super Eyepatch Wolf

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Dec 15, 2019
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Geneva, Switzerland
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Shenmue II
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Shenmue 2, Mario 3D World, Links Awakening, FF XIII, Cloudpunk
In addition, I believe that figure also includes the scrapped Saturn version.
Yeah I think it was like 45 millions dollars for Shenmue 1 with both the Saturn and Dreamcast project. And 25 millions for Shenmue 2.

I have these numbers in head now, but can't tell how exact it is.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but imo it's also worth pointing out
  • Shenmue 1 had the benefit of working with the already created and familiar VF3 engine, which itself had the benefit of the VF2 engine, which had the benefit of the VF engine. And of course Shenmue 2 had the benefit of Shenmue 1. S3 had fucking nothing.
  • Shenmue 1&2 had the benefit of primarily being made by a large group of employees that are actually in direct contact with each other, are used to working with one another, and are used to working under the production infrastructure Sega spent decades creating and refining for peak efficiency
  • Conversely, S3 had no such pre-existing infrastructure to work with. They had a small handful of people that worked on phone apps. They had to build a new team of people that have never worked together, many of which were contractors from overseas that don't even speak the same language as them since they didn't have the same preexisting supply of fulltime employees Sega did. Sega effectively paid the cost of creating that well ahead of Shenmue ever beginning production.
  • Yu was probably rusty as fuck at the start of S3's production since he hadn't made a new non-mobile game in about a billion years. Conversely, he was a well oiled machine during S1&2 considering he was producing several titles every single year around that time.
If you ask me, I think the majority of S3's dev time and cost had to go into aspects of creating an infrastructure where development of a large game can actually occur. This is a matter already taken care of and paid for ahead of something like the latest Yakuza game or even the previous Shenmue games.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 15, 2019
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
Favourite title
Shenmue II
Currently playing
Shenmue 2, Mario 3D World, Links Awakening, FF XIII, Cloudpunk
That's what I mean, yes. Of course, I'm not denying that Shenmue 3 has a much lower budget.
Yeah, sorry, I wasn't implying that you were denying that Shenmue 3 had a lower budget... I think, since english is not my first language, I kinda mispoke ^^ and I misunderstood when you said "Shenmue" and thought you were talking only about the first one ^^

But yes, I think we agree with each other haha
 
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Location
Japan
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Shenmue II
  • Shenmue 1 had the benefit of working with the already created and familiar VF3 engine, which itself had the benefit of the VF2 engine, which had the benefit of the VF engine. And of course Shenmue 2 had the benefit of Shenmue 1. S3 had fucking nothing.
I think you’re overstating this part quite a bit. As well as all of the music, a lot of work had already gone in to planning S3 and subsequent chapters as part of the initial development. I could be wrong, but I believe the professional screen and scriptwriters worked with Yu on the whole saga and there was concept art as well.

The first games definitely had a huge advantage over S3, but S3 definitely had a lot more going for it than just ‘nothing’.
 
Joined
Dec 15, 2019
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
Favourite title
Shenmue II
Currently playing
Shenmue 2, Mario 3D World, Links Awakening, FF XIII, Cloudpunk
I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but imo it's also worth pointing out
  • Shenmue 1 had the benefit of working with the already created and familiar VF3 engine, which itself had the benefit of the VF2 engine, which had the benefit of the VF engine. And of course Shenmue 2 had the benefit of Shenmue 1. S3 had fucking nothing.
  • Shenmue 1&2 had the benefit of primarily being made by a large group of employees that are actually in direct contact with each other, are used to working with one another, and are used to working under the production infrastructure Sega spent decades creating and refining for peak efficiency
  • Conversely, S3 had no such pre-existing infrastructure to work with. They had a small handful of people that worked on phone apps. They had to build a new team of people that have never worked together, many of which were contractors from overseas that don't even speak the same language as them since they didn't have the same preexisting supply of fulltime employees Sega did. Sega effectively paid the cost of creating that well ahead of Shenmue ever beginning production.
  • Yu was probably rusty as fuck at the start of S3's production since he hadn't made a new non-mobile game in about a billion years. Conversely, he was a well oiled machine during S1&2 considering he was producing several titles every single year around that time.
If you ask me, I think the majority of S3's dev time and cost had to go into aspects of creating an infrastructure where development of a large game can actually occur. This is a matter already taken care of and paid for ahead of something like the latest Yakuza game or even the previous Shenmue games.
We can also add to this :

  • Yu Suzuki was a key architect for the Dreamcast, so he knew everything about the machine and knew exactly how to develop a game for it. He knew exactly what he could or couldn't do, what was possible and what was not
 
Joined
Dec 15, 2019
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
Favourite title
Shenmue II
Currently playing
Shenmue 2, Mario 3D World, Links Awakening, FF XIII, Cloudpunk
I think you’re overstating this part quite a bit. As well as all of the music, a lot of work had already gone in to planning S3 and subsequent chapters as part of the initial development. I could be wrong, but I believe the professional screen and scriptwriters worked with Yu on the whole saga and there was concept art as well.

The first games definitely had a huge advantage over S3, but S3 definitely had a lot more going for it than just ‘nothing’.
I want to say yes and no. For example, we know from the Cédric Biscay Dojo interview (IIRC) that Yu Suzuki changed quite a bit the structure he had in mind for Shenmue 3 story's after the Kickstarter was achieved and they started developement, to add a part of Chapter 6 that was bound to be in Shenmue 4 and not Shenmue 3.

And also I think that @Dietsoap was talking more in a "technical" point of view rather than an artistic one.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
And also I think that @Dietsoap was talking more in a "technical" point of view rather than an artistic one.
Yeah, I meant from a tech and management infrastructure perspective. I knew I probably should've specified, but figured my post was getting too wordy for anyone to actually bother reading anyways. You're right @tomboz that they at least had previously created content like music and story outlines to work with.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
I haven't seen the video in the OP nor SuperEyepatchWolf's original video, and have no real intention to do so either, but I just wanted to chip in after having seen some discussion in locked threads about "resisting" and "fighting back" against people who openly hate the series/the third game.

I spent pretty much the entire length of Shenmue III's development doing this by (I think, at least) pointing out and pushing back against their hypocrisies, hyperbole, and often outright fabrications. But I've since come to the conclusion it didn't really have a considerable impact overall, because ultimately these people have a lot of cultural capital through the megaphone of their following or the publications they work for. They will never be swayed by our argument, and they can ignore it or falsify it with impunity because of the backing they've got by having sort of an... establishment view, let's say.

An example of this is the still persistent belief that Sony significantly funded Shenmue III. It doesn't matter if we have all the evidence in the world refuting it, because if someone said the opposite in an article on Polygon or Kotaku or whatever, that's the "reality" some people will choose to believe rather than what we can objectively say is the truth.

I still think it's important to push back if individuals feel compelled to do so, because bullshit shouldn't be left to stand freely without opposition, and I note that those with "establishment" views usually favour methods of communication without very much right of reply (videos, articles) and absolutely *hate* when people talk back.

But if the community is to make an organised effort in anything, it should be to promote the series and the significant amount of love for it - which I believe it's doing already through the activity on social media, streams, and great fan projects like Shenmue World.

Hope everybody's happy and healthy. Viva Shenmue.
 

spud1897

Administrator
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Location
England
Favourite title
Shenmue II
Currently playing
Destiny 2, Shenmue HD ;)
PSN
spud19870
I haven't seen the video in the OP nor SuperEyepatchWolf's original video, and have no real intention to do so either, but I just wanted to chip in after having seen some discussion in locked threads about "resisting" and "fighting back" against people who openly hate the series/the third game.

I spent pretty much the entire length of Shenmue III's development doing this by (I think, at least) pointing out and pushing back against their hypocrisies, hyperbole, and often outright fabrications. But I've since come to the conclusion it didn't really have a considerable impact overall, because ultimately these people have a lot of cultural capital through the megaphone of their following or the publications they work for. They will never be swayed by our argument, and they can ignore it or falsify it with impunity because of the backing they've got by having sort of an... establishment view, let's say.

An example of this is the still persistent belief that Sony significantly funded Shenmue III. It doesn't matter if we have all the evidence in the world refuting it, because if someone said the opposite in an article on Polygon or Kotaku or whatever, that's the "reality" some people will choose to believe rather than what we can objectively say is the truth.

I still think it's important to push back if individuals feel compelled to do so, because bullshit shouldn't be left to stand freely without opposition, and I note that those with "establishment" views usually favour methods of communication without very much right of reply (videos, articles) and absolutely *hate* when people talk back.

But if the community is to make an organised effort in anything, it should be to promote the series and the significant amount of love for it - which I believe it's doing already through the activity on social media, streams, and great fan projects like Shenmue World.

Hope everybody's happy and healthy. Viva Shenmue.
Welcome back man!
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
I haven't seen the video in the OP nor SuperEyepatchWolf's original video, and have no real intention to do so either, but I just wanted to chip in after having seen some discussion in locked threads about "resisting" and "fighting back" against people who openly hate the series/the third game.

I spent pretty much the entire length of Shenmue III's development doing this by (I think, at least) pointing out and pushing back against their hypocrisies, hyperbole, and often outright fabrications. But I've since come to the conclusion it didn't really have a considerable impact overall, because ultimately these people have a lot of cultural capital through the megaphone of their following or the publications they work for. They will never be swayed by our argument, and they can ignore it or falsify it with impunity because of the backing they've got by having sort of an... establishment view, let's say.

An example of this is the still persistent belief that Sony significantly funded Shenmue III. It doesn't matter if we have all the evidence in the world refuting it, because if someone said the opposite in an article on Polygon or Kotaku or whatever, that's the "reality" some people will choose to believe rather than what we can objectively say is the truth.

I still think it's important to push back if individuals feel compelled to do so, because bullshit shouldn't be left to stand freely without opposition, and I note that those with "establishment" views usually favour methods of communication without very much right of reply (videos, articles) and absolutely *hate* when people talk back.

But if the community is to make an organised effort in anything, it should be to promote the series and the significant amount of love for it - which I believe it's doing already through the activity on social media, streams, and great fan projects like Shenmue World.

Hope everybody's happy and healthy. Viva Shenmue.
Which cemetery did you crawl from?

Welcome back dude, thoughts on Shenmue 3?
 

ShenSun

Site Staff
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
I haven't seen the video in the OP nor SuperEyepatchWolf's original video, and have no real intention to do so either, but I just wanted to chip in after having seen some discussion in locked threads about "resisting" and "fighting back" against people who openly hate the series/the third game.

I spent pretty much the entire length of Shenmue III's development doing this by (I think, at least) pointing out and pushing back against their hypocrisies, hyperbole, and often outright fabrications. But I've since come to the conclusion it didn't really have a considerable impact overall, because ultimately these people have a lot of cultural capital through the megaphone of their following or the publications they work for. They will never be swayed by our argument, and they can ignore it or falsify it with impunity because of the backing they've got by having sort of an... establishment view, let's say.

An example of this is the still persistent belief that Sony significantly funded Shenmue III. It doesn't matter if we have all the evidence in the world refuting it, because if someone said the opposite in an article on Polygon or Kotaku or whatever, that's the "reality" some people will choose to believe rather than what we can objectively say is the truth.

I still think it's important to push back if individuals feel compelled to do so, because bullshit shouldn't be left to stand freely without opposition, and I note that those with "establishment" views usually favour methods of communication without very much right of reply (videos, articles) and absolutely *hate* when people talk back.

But if the community is to make an organised effort in anything, it should be to promote the series and the significant amount of love for it - which I believe it's doing already through the activity on social media, streams, and great fan projects like Shenmue World.

Hope everybody's happy and healthy. Viva Shenmue.
Dude, we've missed you like crazy. Great to see you back brother. Hope all is well.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Favourite title
Shenmue II
Currently playing
Monster Hunter Rise
Steam
KiddMarine
I haven't seen the video in the OP nor SuperEyepatchWolf's original video, and have no real intention to do so either, but I just wanted to chip in after having seen some discussion in locked threads about "resisting" and "fighting back" against people who openly hate the series/the third game.

I spent pretty much the entire length of Shenmue III's development doing this by (I think, at least) pointing out and pushing back against their hypocrisies, hyperbole, and often outright fabrications. But I've since come to the conclusion it didn't really have a considerable impact overall, because ultimately these people have a lot of cultural capital through the megaphone of their following or the publications they work for. They will never be swayed by our argument, and they can ignore it or falsify it with impunity because of the backing they've got by having sort of an... establishment view, let's say.

An example of this is the still persistent belief that Sony significantly funded Shenmue III. It doesn't matter if we have all the evidence in the world refuting it, because if someone said the opposite in an article on Polygon or Kotaku or whatever, that's the "reality" some people will choose to believe rather than what we can objectively say is the truth.

I still think it's important to push back if individuals feel compelled to do so, because bullshit shouldn't be left to stand freely without opposition, and I note that those with "establishment" views usually favour methods of communication without very much right of reply (videos, articles) and absolutely *hate* when people talk back.

But if the community is to make an organised effort in anything, it should be to promote the series and the significant amount of love for it - which I believe it's doing already through the activity on social media, streams, and great fan projects like Shenmue World.

Hope everybody's happy and healthy. Viva Shenmue.
DON'T EVER LEAVE US AGAIN :crying:
 
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
But if the community is to make an organised effort in anything, it should be to promote the series and the significant amount of love for it - which I believe it's doing already through the activity on social media, streams, and great fan projects like Shenmue World.

Hope everybody's happy and healthy. Viva Shenmue.

I had to scratch my eyes thinking this was an old post. Glad to see you posting, I hope you stick around your voice has been sorely missed.
 

Peter

Site Staff
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
I haven't seen the video in the OP nor SuperEyepatchWolf's original video, and have no real intention to do so either, but I just wanted to chip in after having seen some discussion in locked threads about "resisting" and "fighting back" against people who openly hate the series/the third game.

I spent pretty much the entire length of Shenmue III's development doing this by (I think, at least) pointing out and pushing back against their hypocrisies, hyperbole, and often outright fabrications. But I've since come to the conclusion it didn't really have a considerable impact overall, because ultimately these people have a lot of cultural capital through the megaphone of their following or the publications they work for. They will never be swayed by our argument, and they can ignore it or falsify it with impunity because of the backing they've got by having sort of an... establishment view, let's say.

An example of this is the still persistent belief that Sony significantly funded Shenmue III. It doesn't matter if we have all the evidence in the world refuting it, because if someone said the opposite in an article on Polygon or Kotaku or whatever, that's the "reality" some people will choose to believe rather than what we can objectively say is the truth.

I still think it's important to push back if individuals feel compelled to do so, because bullshit shouldn't be left to stand freely without opposition, and I note that those with "establishment" views usually favour methods of communication without very much right of reply (videos, articles) and absolutely *hate* when people talk back.

But if the community is to make an organised effort in anything, it should be to promote the series and the significant amount of love for it - which I believe it's doing already through the activity on social media, streams, and great fan projects like Shenmue World.

Hope everybody's happy and healthy. Viva Shenmue.

Man it's good to see you. ❤️
 

Jibby

🍇
Site Staff
Joined
Jul 23, 2018
Location
Scotland
Favourite title
Shenmue II
Currently playing
Beat Saber
I haven't seen the video in the OP nor SuperEyepatchWolf's original video, and have no real intention to do so either, but I just wanted to chip in after having seen some discussion in locked threads about "resisting" and "fighting back" against people who openly hate the series/the third game.

I spent pretty much the entire length of Shenmue III's development doing this by (I think, at least) pointing out and pushing back against their hypocrisies, hyperbole, and often outright fabrications. But I've since come to the conclusion it didn't really have a considerable impact overall, because ultimately these people have a lot of cultural capital through the megaphone of their following or the publications they work for. They will never be swayed by our argument, and they can ignore it or falsify it with impunity because of the backing they've got by having sort of an... establishment view, let's say.

An example of this is the still persistent belief that Sony significantly funded Shenmue III. It doesn't matter if we have all the evidence in the world refuting it, because if someone said the opposite in an article on Polygon or Kotaku or whatever, that's the "reality" some people will choose to believe rather than what we can objectively say is the truth.

I still think it's important to push back if individuals feel compelled to do so, because bullshit shouldn't be left to stand freely without opposition, and I note that those with "establishment" views usually favour methods of communication without very much right of reply (videos, articles) and absolutely *hate* when people talk back.

But if the community is to make an organised effort in anything, it should be to promote the series and the significant amount of love for it - which I believe it's doing already through the activity on social media, streams, and great fan projects like Shenmue World.

Hope everybody's happy and healthy. Viva Shenmue.
Yo, Spags great to see you on the boards again dude!

I just wanted to clarify that the threads you are referencing weren't locked because we're necessarily against the idea of challenging/pushing back against misinformation. It was more that we felt the methods proposed by the OP were problematic and not the right way of doing so.

I love your second point though and I completely agree. If Shenmue was really as bad as some people say it is, I don't think we'd have even a fraction of the incredibly talented and dedicated fanbase we have today. If people can see the sheer amount of love and support we pour into this franchise, perhaps they'll think twice about what their favourite personalities have told them. That's where the real power is 100%.

Anyway man, even if it's just to pop your head in every so often, I hope you stick around now that things here are a little calmer than before 😅
 
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Location
Sydney Australia
PSN
danmann861
Steam
danielmann861
I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but imo it's also worth pointing out
  • Shenmue 1 had the benefit of working with the already created and familiar VF3 engine, which itself had the benefit of the VF2 engine, which had the benefit of the VF engine. And of course Shenmue 2 had the benefit of Shenmue 1. S3 had fucking nothing.
  • Shenmue 1&2 had the benefit of primarily being made by a large group of employees that are actually in direct contact with each other, are used to working with one another, and are used to working under the production infrastructure Sega spent decades creating and refining for peak efficiency
  • Conversely, S3 had no such pre-existing infrastructure to work with. They had a small handful of people that worked on phone apps. They had to build a new team of people that have never worked together, many of which were contractors from overseas that don't even speak the same language as them since they didn't have the same preexisting supply of fulltime employees Sega did. Sega effectively paid the cost of creating that well ahead of Shenmue ever beginning production.
  • Yu was probably rusty as fuck at the start of S3's production since he hadn't made a new non-mobile game in about a billion years. Conversely, he was a well oiled machine during S1&2 considering he was producing several titles every single year around that time.
If you ask me, I think the majority of S3's dev time and cost had to go into aspects of creating an infrastructure where development of a large game can actually occur. This is a matter already taken care of and paid for ahead of something like the latest Yakuza game or even the previous Shenmue games.
Wait, wait, wait, you're speaking logic! Logic doesn't apply in the dojo of irrationality (also known as Social Media) :D

(I still think it's a minor miracle we even got a Shenmue III that felt like Shenmue all things given...but that's me)
 
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