Shenmue IV Will Happen - Here's Why!

[Truck_1_0_1_]

There's a 2.2 trillion US stimulus package because of the coronavirus.

Now.... 2.2 trillion is a lot of money.... if 70 million of that could be somehow diverted to Ys Net they could use it to make an epic full-on Shenmue 4 experience.

No one at all would notice a measly 70 million missing from 2.2 trillion...that's just 0.003% of it!

Said it once, will say it again; you really and I mean REALLY need to take a course on economics or business.

 

[iknifaugood]

I recently played the offshoot from Yakuza, Judgement, and what I think he's referring to is that in that game you are constantly coming up against thugs or gang members who start fights with you on the streets. Constantly. It's ok at first and then it gets very repetitive, so I believe this is what we're talking about here. (Judgement is great by the way- great story- but this is one of the criticisms I have of it).

Yea if that's what he's talking about, essentially random encounters, then I would agree that's pretty out of place in Shenmue. I don't think it's quite the same thing as sacrificing NPC VO though, which was the context it was brought up in.

That's why he called writers, but AFTER creating the foundation of Shenmue, not the contrary.
Even for games like Sonic the Hedgehog, game concept was created before the character, it's a standard practice.

It's a chicken/egg thing. Clearly Suzuki had some idea that he wanted the game to be about martial arts in the context of an RPG (implying a more involved story), it's not like he just decided to randomly mash gameplay mechanics together and then decided what to make it about. At the same time, it's not like the story arrived fully formed and then they made the game; this almost never happens--you can see that through the evolution from the prototype, to VFRPG, to Shenmue.

Now you guys magically understand this and are ready to destroy the essence of the series and to accept even BIGGER compromises for future games, just for the sake of the story?

No one has "magically" understood anything. We're discussing what compromises are worth making to finish the series; you seem to think that anything less than the nebulous FREE is unacceptable (without defining what that is), we are trying to be more realistic by taking into account all the story that we know needs to be covered and the fact that S4 may be the end.

It's a nonsense, and this confused line of thinking will results only in a real disaster for this series.

If we get a conclusion to the series as opposed to nothing, I wouldn't consider that a disaster.

But I'm guessing this would be the general sentiment if Shenmue was reduced to just the story.

And what do you think the "general sentiment" around S3 is?

 

[bcdcdude]

Said it once, will say it again; you really and I mean REALLY need to take a course on economics or business.

And can you imagine the shit show if Suzuki was caught doing this? Never mind ire from anti-Epic people, but a strong likelihood of a fine, prison and mainstream press shame...!

 

[SMDzero]

And can you imagine the shit show if Suzuki was caught doing this? Never mind ire from anti-Epic people, but a strong likelihood of a fine, prison and mainstream press shame...!

Maybe Yu Suzuki could justify it? Making Shenmue 4 would mean he and his staff would be quarantined in their office for the next 5 years.

 

[Suzaku]

It's a chicken/egg thing. Clearly Suzuki had some idea that he wanted the game to be about martial arts in the context of an RPG (implying a more involved story), it's not like he just decided to randomly mash gameplay mechanics together and then decided what to make it about. At the same time, it's not like the story arrived fully formed and then they made the game; this almost never happens--you can see that through the evolution from the prototype, to VFRPG, to Shenmue.

We can also see it in this way.

No one has "magically" understood anything. We're discussing what compromises are worth making to finish the series; you seem to think that anything less than the nebulous FREE is unacceptable (without defining what that is),

FREE could be defined is an immersive world, achieved with simulation of real life elements like the passage of time, weather system, realistic npc behaviour etc. to give player the freedom to interact in realistic and coherent ways in a world that exists and works with its rules, even without input by the player (like instead happen in the vast majority of games).

I think Suzuki's description is still perfect:

we are trying to be more realistic by taking into account all the story that we know needs to be covered and the fact that S4 may be the end.

To make it simple, we didn't fought and waited 20 years just to see Shenmue transformed in a Telltale game.
The amount of story that remain can't be covered with just Shenmue 4, probably even ending with S5 could be problematic.
But forcing the conclusion in 4 will result 120% in a total mess, and I'm already hearing you guys complaining again for the story in 4...
Not only this, you even want to downgrade the entire Shenmue experience...

It would be a total disaster.

I understand being realistic, but does it make sense to continue the series this way?

Better to not rush things, we achieved Shenmue 3 after all, with some patience we well achieve also S4 and S5.

If we get a conclusion to the series as opposed to nothing, I wouldn't consider that a disaster.

Trust me, sometime it's better to have nothing, and I say it as a Panzer Dragoon fan that seen one of his favourite series butchered by amateurs with the mediocre PD Remake.

And what do you think the "general sentiment" around S3 is?

generally positive I think.
general sentiment could've been way better if some ex-fans weren't costantly spreading negativity on places like Gaf, resetera etc....

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Do you think people became “ex-fans” for no reason? I doubt anyone waited 18 years to shit on Shenmue for no reason. If they did, they’re weird.

The truth is plenty of people didn’t like the game for very good reasons. Much of what you post is extremely subjective and seems to be written to give Ys Net and Shenmue 3 the maximum benefit of the doubt. Not everyone is willing to grade the game on a curve just because it’s Shenmue.

FREE was extremely innovative 20 years ago. Today, open world games are a dime a dozen and many of the things Shenmue did have either been improved upon, altered significantly or discarded entirely. I don’t think there is anything in Shenmue 3 that can’t be found in many other games, so I am reluctant to act like Shenmue 3 is its own genre at this point. There are much better NPC routines in games like the Elder Scrolls or GTA at this point; heck, they’re more advanced in the first two Shenmue games.

 

[spud1897]

What I do think and this is only personal opinion is that it's a little extreme to become an ex fan because you don't like one entry in a series.

Take Sonic. I'm still a fan. I don't particularly like modern Sonic games (post Dreamcast) barring Generations and Heros but that doesn't stop me enjoying the rest of the games. Sonic Mania doesn't count as modern Sonic in my book btw

Mass Effect series. I didn't massively like the first game but love the rest.

Game of Thrones. Loved all the seasons barring the last 3/4 episodes of the series. Still think it's a pretty damn good tv show.

I dunno for me not liking one entry is cool but for it to ruin a whole series for me seems extreme and expectations on some accounts were too high.

 

[SMDzero]

I think Suzuki's description is still perfect:


View attachment 7740

I agree.

However, "Housewives gossiping" I wonder if this description could still be used in the Me Too era?

 

[GhostTrick]

What I do think and this is only personal opinion is that it's a little extreme to become an ex fan because you don't like one entry in a series.

Take Sonic. I'm still a fan. I don't particularly like modern Sonic games (post Dreamcast) barring Generations and Heros but that doesn't stop me enjoying the rest of the games. Sonic Mania doesn't count as modern Sonic in my book btw

Mass Effect series. I didn't massively like the first game but love the rest.

Game of Thrones. Loved all the seasons barring the last 3/4 episodes of the series. Still think it's a pretty damn good tv show.

I dunno for me not liking one entry is cool but for it to ruin a whole series for me seems extreme and expectations on some accounts were too high.

I don't think it's about ruining the whole series, which means the previous entry. It's more of losing interest for the rest. It's not to say that interest cant be brought back.

 

[spud1897]

I don't think it's about ruining the whole series, which means the previous entry. It's more of losing interest for the rest. It's not to say that interest cant be brought back.

That's also true though there have been comments on here that have said 3 ruined everything and thus their interest in the series is done.

My view is ok it's not to everyone's taste but I'd rather view things as a whole than let something (1 entry) upset an entire view.

 

[ShenSun]

Given the current climate, the upcoming possible recession, the next generation of consoles etc, if there is a Shenmue 4, I don't think we'll hear about it until 2022. Hopefully, we can get a nod on the side from Cedric or someone close to the team next year, indicating that it is in development.

All we can do now is hope and wait. The fans did their part and more. The rest is pretty much out of our control now. Although, there is the steam release coming up, so there is that.

 

[GhostTrick]

Given the current climate, the upcoming possible rescission, the next generation of consoles etc, if there is a Shenmue 4, I don't think we'll hear about it until 2022. Hopefully, we can get a nod on the side from Cedric or someone close to the team next year, indicating that it is in development.

All we can do now is hope and wait. The fans did their part and more. The rest is pretty much out of our control now. Although, there is the steam release coming up, so there is that.

I think we'll be able to know earlier. It may not be official until 2022 indeed, but YsNet is a developper. They need to work. They wont sit through 2020 and 2021 without working on anything, paying 40 peoples to sit in their desk doing nothing. They need money injection. Either they'll need a publisher or a crowdfunding, in any case, it'll have to happen as early as possible.

 

[Sh3ppy]

FREE was extremely innovative 20 years ago.

Clearly, FREE is not innovative anymore. However, I still think it holds up really well in today’s landscape.

 

[Reprise]

Shenmue 4 just wouldn't work via crowdfunding, unless they had a significant sum of cash already and the KS was just topping it up.

There's two issues. One is it just doesn't have the same level of excitement and anticipation that Shenmue 3 had considering that was something people had been begging Yu Suzuki for for 15 years. The second issue is people are now more cynical about crowdfunding and there aren't many projects that are more tainted than Shenmue is. Besides that, whilst we can argue back and forth on these issues, the fact is it hardly set the sales charts alight or received amazing reviews.

 

[GhostTrick]

Shenmue 4 just wouldn't work via crowdfunding, unless they had a significant sum of cash already and the KS was just topping it up.

There's two issues. One is it just doesn't have the same level of excitement and anticipation that Shenmue 3 had considering that was something people had been begging Yu Suzuki for for 15 years. The second issue is people are now more cynical about crowdfunding and there aren't many projects that are more tainted than Shenmue is. Besides that, whilst we can argue back and forth on these issues, the fact is it hardly set the sales charts alight or received amazing reviews.

I agree with that. But in any case, they'll need funding as soon as possible. They can't work for free. And they can't pay employees on doing nothing. Either YsNet will have to work on Shenmue 4, any other game, or close shop. Hence why we should know pretty soon what they're up to. They can't be silent nor be sitting playing with their thumbs for long.

 

[iknifaugood]

FREE could be defined is an immersive world, achieved with simulation of real life elements like the passage of time, weather system, realistic npc behaviour etc. to give player the freedom to interact in realistic and coherent ways in a world that exists and works with its rules, even without input by the player (like instead happen in the vast majority of games).

I think Suzuki's description is still perfect:

I would suggest that most games have well surpassed this definition of FREE and, even in 2000 when Shenmue came out, Majora's Mask hit most of these bullet points. From this list a FREE requires: a day/night cycle, dynamic weather, interactive NPCs with schedules, and a general emphasis on realism. That describes everything from GTA to Breath of the Wild to The Sims nowadays. Also the most important part of that description is the last two lines: "A compelling and majestic drama that will engulf you exists here." I don't think it's wrong to want to focus on that part.

To make it simple, we didn't fought and waited 20 years just to see Shenmue transformed in a Telltale game.

No one mentioned Telltale. This is brought up constantly around these forums as if it's the only narrative-focused style of game. Play more games.

Trust me, sometime it's better to have nothing, and I say it as a Panzer Dragoon fan

Ooof. My condolences.

generally positive I think.
general sentiment could've been way better if some ex-fans weren't costantly spreading negativity on places like Gaf, resetera etc....

Others have already responded to this but Shenmue's fanbase is tiny as is, it can't afford to lose many fans, especially if YS needs crowdfunding again.

 

[Suzaku]

Do you think people became “ex-fans” for no reason? I doubt anyone waited 18 years to shit on Shenmue for no reason. If they did, they’re weird.

The truth is plenty of people didn’t like the game for very good reasons. Much of what you post is extremely subjective and seems to be written to give Ys Net and Shenmue 3 the maximum benefit of the doubt. Not everyone is willing to grade the game on a curve just because it’s Shenmue.

Like also spud said, becoming an ex fan and losing interest just because you don't like one entry in a series, is just exaggerated. For me it means that you weren't a fan since the beginning, but that's just my opinion.
For example I absolutely hate Panzer Dragoon Remake and I think it's the worst thing happened to the series, but I'll remain a PD fan forever.
Same for Sonic, there isn't a main game that I like since 12 years probably, but still I love Sonic series and I always wait for the next games with much anticipations.

People raging on internet like spoiled brats, trying to killing the series altogether (actually their words) by spreading negativity...what kind of fan would do this?
sorry but I have no sympathy for them, maybe they could have good reasons to not like the series at the beginning, but they lost any credibility by now.

Shenmue community doesn't need these toxic haters.

FREE was extremely innovative 20 years ago. Today, open world games are a dime a dozen and many of the things Shenmue did have either been improved upon, altered significantly or discarded entirely. I don’t think there is anything in Shenmue 3 that can’t be found in many other games, so I am reluctant to act like Shenmue 3 is its own genre at this point. There are much better NPC routines in games like the Elder Scrolls or GTA at this point; heck, they’re more advanced in the first two Shenmue games.

I don't agree.
Apart maybe the Elder Scrolls, there are no game that do all the things that Shenmue does at the same time.
What other game has a fully built world that really works with its own rules, with passage of time and weather system etc. until to the point to have even lunar phases lol
a 1:1 fully voiced dialogue system (not just voiced lines, that's not a dialogue system)
NPC with daily routines (no, other open world games has NPC with random animations, that's a different thing),
every in-game object that exists as a 3D model inside the game (opposed to other games that still use simple jpg images that you see only in the inventory)
the ability to interact in realistic ways with objects (by physically grabbing the ojects, or for example if you play a minigame, you're actually using that same machine that you see in the world, it's not a 2D minigame screen or an adjusted model like every other game, you're using the same thing you interacted with)
a seamsless experience with no loadings
etc.
while offering at the same time real time cutscenes, QTE, an action battle system and many system all connected between them.

Please mention one game that do all this
Probably only Skyrim is the only game experience that comes near Shenmue, while still missing some features.

Shenmue is still a unique experience compared to other games.

 

[iknifaugood]

What I do think and this is only personal opinion is that it's a little extreme to become an ex fan because you don't like one entry in a series.

Take Sonic. I'm still a fan. I don't particularly like modern Sonic games (post Dreamcast) barring Generations and Heros but that doesn't stop me enjoying the rest of the games. Sonic Mania doesn't count as modern Sonic in my book btw

Mass Effect series. I didn't massively like the first game but love the rest.

Game of Thrones. Loved all the seasons barring the last 3/4 episodes of the series. Still think it's a pretty damn good tv show.

I dunno for me not liking one entry is cool but for it to ruin a whole series for me seems extreme and expectations on some accounts were too high.

While I don't think S3 is enough to render someone an ex fan (I love S2, no matter how bad the series gets, it won’t suddenly make S2 bad), I understand why it would shake one's faith in Suzuki, and why one would choose to not wait another X years to play a sequel. The reason Mass Effect and Game of Thrones (and Lost) were so hated is because they screwed up the ending and, more specifically, they made people feel like their time was wasted. When you spend time building a mystery, if it doesn't have a payoff, that renders most of the build up useless so it can absolutely taint what came before, even if that was well executed (looking at you White Walkers). A lot of people angry enough to abandon the series are looking at S3 that way.

 

[Suzaku]

I would suggest that most games have well surpassed this definition of FREE and, even in 2000 when Shenmue came out, Majora's Mask hit most of these bullet points. From this list a FREE requires: a day/night cycle, dynamic weather, interactive NPCs with schedules, and a general emphasis on realism. That describes everything from GTA to Breath of the Wild to The Sims nowadays. Also the most important part of that description is the last two lines: "A compelling and majestic drama that will engulf you exists here." I don't think it's wrong to want to focus on that part.

sure, but not at the expenses of other elements.
for the rest I already responded in the post above

No one mentioned Telltale. This is brought up constantly around these forums as if it's the only narrative-focused style of game. Play more games.

it's always mentioned because it's the cheaper way to do storytelling

Ooof. My condolences.

thanks

Others have already responded to this but Shenmue's fanbase is tiny as is, it can't afford to lose many fans, especially if YS needs crowdfunding again.

I know, but when some are directly responsible for the damage created...

 

[iknifaugood]

sure, but not at the expenses of other elements.

With all due respect, a day/night cycle, dynamic weather, and rudimentary NPC schedules are not difficult things to implement and hardly constitute a genre. Full VO, full 3D items that you can pick up just to look at, and more complex NPC schedules/interactions are definitely luxuries that can and should be scaled back on a tight budget. Remember, all that realism is just the setting; the drama is what engulfs you.

it's always mentioned because it's the cheaper way to do storytelling

TT games are specifically about making choices and creating branching paths (or at least the illusion of it), I mentioned Persona as something Shenmue should aim for in terms of a stripped down version of its gameplay. Shenmue is going to need to figure out a way to do cheaper storytelling, clearly.

I know, but when some are directly responsible for the damage created...

I would agree that if people are being toxic or actively trying to undermine the future of the series, that's definitely weird and not cool. But I haven't seen anyone doing that on these forums and I can't imagine why one would stop caring about the series, and then continue to care about the series' future by attempting to undermine it.