SIII Character Model Discussion

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Jul 27, 2018
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Shenhua's model has improved exponentially, while Ryo's model has left me longing for NoconKid's iteration. :crying:


View attachment 842
I think Nocon's ryo is too "stern-looking"/"sharp-edged" and slim.

Overall, all Ys's Ryo models are more in line with Ryo's concept than Nocon's, to me.

I think that, whatever we may dislike about any model showed by Ys,
we have to admit that they still hold the characters' concepts quite well.
 

RiGoRmOrTiS

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Newcastle, UK
This thread will be used to discuss everything related to the character models in Shenmue 3. This will hopefully avert any other threads derailing into this topic.

Please be civil and respectful. No outrage or hysterical comments. Constructive feedback is key.

Here are my thoughts on the current Models from the Gamescom Shenmue 3 Trailer.

While i absolutely adore the trailer, I personally believe they are using both new and older models in that clip.

Ryo

It appears Ryo's character model in the trailer is an older version from last year. His model matches the screen shots that were released a while ago.

IibOUzI.jpg


As you can see, the eyes are static with no real direction and there is no facial expression.

Compare this picture to the THQ financial presentation and the image Cedric Biscay posted on his twitter.

YFvTYqY.png


These models are far superior in detail and expression. The eyes have clear direction and we can see the emotion on Ryo's face. Texture work is also extremely detailed, especially on the Cedric image.

Shenhua

I believe the current model in the trailer is possibly an older version as well

MABKTyG.png


Her model looks very good. However, the main criticism is that she has the same dead static stare which Ryo suffers from. This takes away from the model's overall quality when it plays in motion.

If we compare it to the THQ financial presentation and the Cedric image, we see a massive difference.

A8uzoFL.png


The faces are more clearly defined. The eyes have direction and we can even see Shenhua smiling in the second image. This leads me to believe the Gamescom trailer is using an older shenhua model.

Even in the final image of the Shenmue 3 trailer, the Shenhua model looks more detailed and the eyes have shifted, looking to the side with emotion rather than a dead straight look ahead. its more expressive and shows concern in the prophecy which she just recited.

osdXvc4.png


Facial Expressions

This game will have facial expressions, eye movement, etc. It's probably absent in the latest trailer due to Suzuki's Agile methodology. If we look at the THQ financial presentation, we can see a slight smirk on Ryo's face and his eyes have clear direction .Shenhua's expression goes from looking down on the ground, to sheer excitement / surprise as she points into the distance.

wm1Jnr.gif
View attachment 810
HotLikelyGoldeneye-max-14mb.gif


Ys net also did a video a while ago on facial expressions which you can find here. Although, the method has probably expanded since then

Rin? (Little girl)

This is probably the best model shown so far in my opinion. She's expressive, the eyes have soul and the texture and lighting is perfect. I'm hoping most main characters aim for this quality along with the upgraded Shenhua and Ryo models (Cedric Image)

GBAzDip.jpg


Shrine Lady

The shrine lady is another character who excels in the model department. The eyes are alive and she has a slight smirk on her face in the bottom left image, while she looks rather sad in the bottom right image.

36u85zj.png


The Old Man

The old man who Ryo fights in the trailer looks plastic and has hardly any texture work on his clothes. The lighting is also extremely off. I'm assuming this is a placeholder model or he's related to Mr muscles and has greased up :)

Perhaps the model is more developed and the extreme lighting is hiding the detail.

NYDgUMi.png


The extreme lighting also makes Ryo look less detailed and plastic than he actually is. This extraordinary lighting is not present in the rest of the trailer.

ymt9hKO.png


Lan Di

I do like the look of Lan Di alot. At first i was thrown off, due to the complexion of his skin being lighter in this trailer compared to the dreamcast games. It could be a light issue, similar to the old man. Either way, he has his menacing look and probably has the most expression out of everyone in the new trailer.

MR4eeJB.png


Shenmue BETA Models

It's important we remember what the beta models of Shenmue 1 and 2 originally looked like and compare them to the release version.

Lan Di

D5EKCt7.png


Ryo

WrdRuAD.png


Terry

nXRTJNa.png


Massive differences and improvements can be seen in all the characters.

Shenmue 3 Model Comparison

Here are the current models of Shenhua and Ryo that have been revealed in Shenmue 3.

PLd307R.jpg


As you can see, the models have received a ton of work and continue to change.

Character Full Models & Texture work

The character models are very detailed when the extreme lighting is toned down. Lan Di's robe is incredible and Ryo and Shenhua's clothes have so much detail it boggles the mind.

YcxMqTK.png


NPC texture work is also looking really good.

ivAVvKm.png


Even the older model textures holds up very nicely.

NuuHQ9v.png


To conclude, i believe the latest trailer is using old models. We have footage and evidence that more advance models exist along with facial expressions and eye movement.

In fact, i think most of the models, old & new are impressive, it's just overshadowed by the lack of facial expressions which people tend to naturally zoom in on, possibly due to human nature. We are all emotional creatures at the end of the day and tend to focus more on faces than any other part of the body.

Perhaps Ysnet is going to gradually role out trailers with more drastic improvements as time goes on.

We also know that Suzuki's Agile methodology is very unique compared to other developers, so the final look of the game probably won't be revealed until he brings everything together.

Each screen shot and trailer shows different lighting, models, textures etc. Maybe he's mixing and matching everything until he finds that magic combination.

Either way, exciting times are up ahead.

That's my take on the models. What do you guys think?, speculate?, like?, dislike? etc.


Amazing post ShenSun, well laid out and clear as refined crystal. Can't wait to see a trailer with all the final assets and animation in place.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2018
Lan-Di's face makes me laugh since he almost has Ryo's facial features. It is as if Ryo is fighting himself the whole time if you know what I mean in some strange symbolic way (don't take me seriously about that).
Honestly my only gripe with Lan Di's face is that it literally looks almost exactly like Kazuma's from the Yakuza series instead of having facial features more akin to Lau Chan from the Virtua Fighter series who served as the base foundation for the Lan Di character design.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Shenmue 3 Model Comparison

Here are the current models of Shenhua and Ryo that have been revealed in Shenmue 3.

PLd307R.jpg


The models have received a ton of work and continue to change.


How can you be sure that the Shenhua model at Gamescom isn't the newer model. It seems odd that YSNet would use an older model when they had a more refined one on hand from months earlier.
 
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The model of shenhua who appears at the end of the trailer where you can see the release date could be the newest one. In my opinion, looks perfect with very nice facial expression and not dead eyed, I assume Ryo will be as nice as she.
 
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Jul 27, 2018
Shenhua looks great; Ryo still needs polish.
(...although he looks miles ahead of his original Deep Silver reveal. Holy f*ck. That one was atrocious)

To be fair, all the models look pretty "good" now, just different from the ones we grew up with...which can be disconcerting at first glance. Curious to see their (hopefully) continued evolution.
 
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I noticed that the old guy has neck wrinkles and some kind of indent on his cheek in this shot. I really think the super bright lighting washes him out and makes him look more plastic than his model really is.
 

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I have faith Ys Net will eventually refine the character models to reflect the spirit of the originals. If this other series can, why can’t the originators?


Also, the Shenmue artists have a history of doing it before...


I have faith...
 
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Aug 7, 2018
The Kickstarter update video that showed the little girl has got to be the best SIII video released so far. Technically it looks the furthest along in the game’s development. But I think the biggest factor that differentiates that video from anything else released so far is that it felt deliberate. There was a definite sense of direction in that video, and personality as well. That small cameo from Chai speaks to the existence of clear direction in the video too.

All of the other footage that’s been released unfortunately seem to lack this quality. It’s almost as if those videos were made last-minute just to prove that the game still exists and is still happening.
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
The Dreamcast hardware (let alone the Saturn) was not capable of producing models that were faithful to the artist drawings/renderings on the box art. There was no choice but to "interpret" to the limitations of the Dreamcast. Modern hardware/engines however are more than capable of models of that detail.

We know what Ryo and Shenhua are meant to look like, 2000 era hardware limitations notwithstanding. There was no need to reinterpret them or reinvent them when they can finally be faithfully depicted on current hardware. That's what bugs me. I have a feeling they are both "westernised", which might be an aesthetic choice to appeal to a wide audience, but I just can't accept the characters looking this different. It is not a quality issue, but a faithfulness issue.

Now if they will eventually look like the original artist vision then why go through all these weird iterations?
 
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I just can't accept the characters looking this different. It is not a quality issue, but a faithfulness issue.

Now if they will eventually look like the original artist vision then why go through all these weird iterations?

I really don't think the team is having much difficulty making the characters look the way they want them to. The problem is they don't look the way you want them to. You have a decision to make about how upset you're going to let yourself get over this matter. In the end, there's always modding if you want to tinker with the characters' appearances after release.
 
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Playing Shenmue II now and I have to say, for the main characters anyway, the Dreamcast games look better than what has been show for Shenmue III. Just watched the latest trailer for the upcoming game and Lan Di looks like a cartoon character where as in the Dreamcast model, you can get a strong sense of his cold, morally-questionable, deadly fighter character from just looking at him.
 
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Shenmue3-1.jpg

I think this are the most advanced versions of Ryo and Shenhua and still they are going to be enhanced. In my opinion, this models are almost at AAA games level. They have an amazing detail, correct light, nice facial expressions...I couldn't have asked for more 4 years ago when I was praying for Suzuki to release a manga or book just to end the story.

I know not everything they've showed looks already perfect but we are going to give Suzuki a chance to finish the game and judge afterwards. Suzuki is one if not the best game maker out there and I know he will deliver at the end, you can see the magic in last material they've showed.
 
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lan-di-shenmue-2.jpg


Comparing to this

shenmue-3-lan-di-580x326.jpg



lets be honest the latest Lan Di facial animations and face do not look like Lan di at all. they would be better of doing a copy/paste from previous Shenmue games.. the hair colour is wrong,facial expression and the scar needs to be more visible,face wider and hair needs to be adjusted
 
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Yes this character model discussions occur quite often when a old Series gets a generation leap. I like the new characters models and I am totally fine with them but I can understand that some people think that they look too different from the previous games. Maybe I think different because I have not played Shenmue before January 2018. So I have seen many games before Shenmue and it never had the impact on me it had on the guys who played it back then in 2000. I am still impressed by Shenmue, like it more than 99 Percent of the modern games but I never got nostalgically attached to the character models. They looked fine to me even today, but I still have nothing to complain about the new models.

The whole game looks gorgeous it exactly looks how I would imagine a modern day Shenmue. It has not the ultra realistic look, it still has the comic look of the older games.

But thats the opinion of a guy who played Shenmue for the first time recently. Back then, in 99 and 2000 I am sure the graphics were seen as ultra realistic. So no wonder some Fans of the first hour are a bit disappointed now that the new Shenmue has the comic look and not the realistic look of part 1 and 2 (viewed by the standards of 2000) .


ps: I am not a tech guy so I might be wrong but does not have every game engine and its distinctive look and so it is impossible to port the character models 1:1 from an old engine to a new one?

It seems that way because every game series that outlived 1 Generation changed their Character Models drastically. This no problem exclusive to Shenmue.

But maybe it was just artistic choice of of Team Yu to make the Characters look a bit different. I do not know. maybe the Tech guys can answer me question.
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2018
They have come a long way from when the game intially was revealed, that is very obvious.

I am certain the character models will be perfect by release, as Ryo already looks quite close in that QTE arcade screencap to what I envisioned.

It is still worth noting that the trailer we saw in August seemed to be a mix of old and new footage, as Ryo seemed far more detailed in some scenes than others when I watched it again recently.

He looks far better in the Arcade screen than say, when he gets off the boat in the trailer from Gamescom.


MAGIC will tell the final tale, as the game will be 5-6 months from release at that point. That is, of course, assuming they show a recent trailer and gameplay snippets.

We can really begin to pick apart things then. A lot can happen in that 5 months, but a true look at it's final visual state should be then.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Shenmue 3 Model Comparison

Here are the current models of Shenhua and Ryo that have been revealed in Shenmue 3.

PLd307R.jpg

The models have received a ton of work and continue to change.

Great compliation of images - Curious to where the 2nd image to the left of Ryo came from, the environment behind him also looks very different from what we've seen before.
 
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