SIII Character Model Discussion

ShenSun

Site Staff
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
This thread will be used to discuss everything related to the character models in Shenmue 3. This will hopefully avert any other threads derailing into this topic.

Please be civil and respectful. No outrage or hysterical comments. Constructive feedback is key.

Here are my thoughts on the current Models from the Gamescom Shenmue 3 Trailer.

While i absolutely adore the trailer, I personally believe they are using both new and older models in that clip.

Ryo

It appears Ryo's character model in the trailer is an older version from last year. His model matches the screen shots that were released a while ago.

IibOUzI.jpg


As you can see, the eyes are static with no real direction and there is no facial expression.

Compare this picture to the THQ financial presentation and the image Cedric Biscay posted on his twitter.

YFvTYqY.png


These models are far superior in detail and expression. The eyes have clear direction and we can see the emotion on Ryo's face. Texture work is also extremely detailed, especially on the Cedric image.

Shenhua

I believe the current model in the trailer is possibly an older version as well

MABKTyG.png


Her model looks very good. However, the main criticism is that she has the same dead static stare which Ryo suffers from. This takes away from the model's overall quality when it plays in motion.

If we compare it to the THQ financial presentation and the Cedric image, we see a massive difference.

A8uzoFL.png


The faces are more clearly defined. The eyes have direction and we can even see Shenhua smiling in the second image. This leads me to believe the Gamescom trailer is using an older shenhua model.

Even in the final image of the Shenmue 3 trailer, the Shenhua model looks more detailed and the eyes have shifted, looking to the side with emotion rather than a dead straight look ahead. its more expressive and shows concern in the prophecy which she just recited.

osdXvc4.png


Facial Expressions

This game will have facial expressions, eye movement, etc. It's probably absent in the latest trailer due to Suzuki's Agile methodology. If we look at the THQ financial presentation, we can see a slight smirk on Ryo's face and his eyes have clear direction .Shenhua's expression goes from looking down on the ground, to sheer excitement / surprise as she points into the distance.

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Ys net also did a video a while ago on facial expressions which you can find here. Although, the method has probably expanded since then

Rin? (Little girl)

This is probably the best model shown so far in my opinion. She's expressive, the eyes have soul and the texture and lighting is perfect. I'm hoping most main characters aim for this quality along with the upgraded Shenhua and Ryo models (Cedric Image)

GBAzDip.jpg


Shrine Lady

The shrine lady is another character who excels in the model department. The eyes are alive and she has a slight smirk on her face in the bottom left image, while she looks rather sad in the bottom right image.

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The Old Man

The old man who Ryo fights in the trailer looks plastic and has hardly any texture work on his clothes. The lighting is also extremely off. I'm assuming this is a placeholder model or he's related to Mr muscles and has greased up :)

Perhaps the model is more developed and the extreme lighting is hiding the detail.

NYDgUMi.png


The extreme lighting also makes Ryo look less detailed and plastic than he actually is. This extraordinary lighting is not present in the rest of the trailer.

ymt9hKO.png


Lan Di

I do like the look of Lan Di alot. At first i was thrown off, due to the complexion of his skin being lighter in this trailer compared to the dreamcast games. It could be a light issue, similar to the old man. Either way, he has his menacing look and probably has the most expression out of everyone in the new trailer.

MR4eeJB.png


Shenmue BETA Models

It's important we remember what the beta models of Shenmue 1 and 2 originally looked like and compare them to the release version.

Lan Di

D5EKCt7.png


Ryo

WrdRuAD.png


Terry

nXRTJNa.png


Massive differences and improvements can be seen in all the characters.

Shenmue 3 Model Comparison

Here are the current models of Shenhua and Ryo that have been revealed in Shenmue 3.

PLd307R.jpg


As you can see, the models have received a ton of work and continue to change.

Character Full Models & Texture work

The character models are very detailed when the extreme lighting is toned down. Lan Di's robe is incredible and Ryo and Shenhua's clothes have so much detail it boggles the mind.

YcxMqTK.png


NPC texture work is also looking really good.

ivAVvKm.png


Even the older model textures holds up very nicely.

NuuHQ9v.png


To conclude, i believe the latest trailer is using old models. We have footage and evidence that more advance models exist along with facial expressions and eye movement.

In fact, i think most of the models, old & new are impressive, it's just overshadowed by the lack of facial expressions which people tend to naturally zoom in on, possibly due to human nature. We are all emotional creatures at the end of the day and tend to focus more on faces than any other part of the body.

Perhaps Ysnet is going to gradually role out trailers with more drastic improvements as time goes on.

We also know that Suzuki's Agile methodology is very unique compared to other developers, so the final look of the game probably won't be revealed until he brings everything together.

Each screen shot and trailer shows different lighting, models, textures etc. Maybe he's mixing and matching everything until he finds that magic combination.

Either way, exciting times are up ahead.

That's my take on the models. What do you guys think?, speculate?, like?, dislike? etc.
 

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Firstly, I have to commend you on your effort for the above post. It’s something that one could only expect from a Shenmue fan.

I’ve already ranted about my gripes in othet threads regarding the lack of expression and eye movement, so the only point I wanted to make in this thread is that I think Ryo’s pupils should be larger. Compare his Shenmue 3 model to Shenmue 1 & 2 and you will see what I am talking about. The larger pupils effect a certain wide-eyed, naivety that his current character model lacks. And it’s that innocence and pure heartedness in Ryo’s character that we all fell in love with.

So if anyone here has a contact for YSNet or Cedric Biscay or ever that NoconKid, please let them know that we are all noticing that something isn’t quite right with Ryo and it’s those eyes.
 
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Looks like the character models are still being worked on which is why I'm not too bothered about it at the moment. I figured stuff like this is the reason why we hadn't really been getting much footage of the game so far due to WIP stuff like this that anyone could easily pick apart. Lan-Di's face makes me laugh since he almost has Ryo's facial features. It is as if Ryo is fighting himself the whole time if you know what I mean in some strange symbolic way (don't take me seriously about that). Ryo's face looks much better, but I have to get used to him looking more skinny though. Shenhua looks good so far to me personally. She looks much better than her earlier models.
 
Fantastic breakdown @ShenSun. And I totally agree with your assessments. Having worked on game development my self, and the fact that this is a small dev almost indie-effort, it bears hallmarks of them combining assets from different builds etc.

I will also point out before anyone askes, that even though they have highly detailed, facial expressive and texture rich models, the reason for them not being used in the trailer could likely be that their animation rig on those models aren't completely done. Why not you may ask, because they are not as important right now. They don't have a 100-man team, so they are focusing on content, gameplay etc, while using simpler models which are semi-fully rigged, in order to run the game. Assets are easy to swap further down the line.
 
I think the actual models look good. And @ShenSun you've confirmed my initial thoughts that we may have seen a trailer using older assets.

Also we know Yu is constantly making changes

I'm hoping that as we near release this will be amended and then we will see the full glory of Shenmue.
 
My same thoughts after watching the trailer. They are mixing older and newer models during the trailer and this can lead to think that they will be the definitive (for non shenmue fans).

I understand that the agile method Suzuki is using can't allow to use the newest models they have, and they MUST to show a trailer for the people because it's about time to show it but, sadly, people will moan about animations, faces and so...
We can see some npcs in the boat that almost had no face features (the lady is behind Ryo).

I know there's still much time left to work on this and I'm sure will be amazed by the work of Suzuki and his team.
 
I agree the models in the trailer are not the final build. Shenhua , Rin and lan di look great.
 
Confirms my suspicions in the last thread that these models are indeed from old footage. Thanks for the painstaking effort!
 
Great post ShenSun!

I thought the same and noticed that the new trailer models looked a bit older the older videos (especially the little girl). Yu's at it again :D I really can't wait until we see the final thing in action and know that we will be over the moon with the results.
 
Great post ShenSun!

I thought the same and noticed that the new trailer models looked a bit older the older videos (especially the little girl). Yu's at it again :D I really can't wait until we see the final thing in action and know that we will be over the moon with the results.

With the way time flies these days, it'll should be here before we know it....but now that I know an exact date. Something tells me it'll slow way down now haha.
 
So if anyone here has a contact for YSNet or Cedric Biscay or ever that NoconKid, please let them know that we are all noticing that something isn’t quite right with Ryo and it’s those eyes.

I don't mean this in a rude or confrontational way, but please speak for yourself. I don't share your opinion and one of the most frustrating experiences I have with this forum is when someone presents their own opinion as the consensus view of the entire community. We aren't "all" noticing that something is right or wrong. There is a wide spectrum of opinions here and at the end of the day, we are fans of this series but we are not creative consultants.
 
About Lan Di, I actually like the way he looks mostly. Definitely he could have a bit more of a scowl but really he's looking pretty good. I do wonder if his pupils are a little smaller than they have been in the past. Has anyone photoshopped his S3 model with slightly bigger pupils?

Ren as far as I can tell though looks great. I guess I need a closer shot at his face but thrilled he looks how I hoped he would.
 
I think the biggest problem in the trailer's characters was how much plasticky and detailless their shaders and textures looked (combined with some stiff or inconsistent facial and body animations), and i really couldn't understand why, since we actually saw how much detailed, refined and better modeled they were in a bunch of previously released screenshots.
I thought it might've been because of the Youtube compression, or the strange extreme lightening they used in some scenes, but overall it strangely felt like a big downgrade compared to what they recently showed to us.
This comparison really helps me to make sense of all this, so thank you very much because i feel way more hopeful now.

Overall it's a shame, because those unpolished/unfinished characters models really grabbed most people's attention, while everything else actually looked outstanding.
 
I don't mean this in a rude or confrontational way, but please speak for yourself. I don't share your opinion and one of the most frustrating experiences I have with this forum is when someone presents their own opinion as the consensus view of the entire community. We aren't "all" noticing that something is right or wrong. There is a wide spectrum of opinions here and at the end of the day, we are fans of this series but we are not creative consultants.

Well perhaps not all of us can claim the same opinion regarding Ryo’s character model, but it is an overwhelming majority.
 
This was a good analysis that points out some feelings I had about the faces and models upon viewing the newest trailer, where I couldn't help but feel they looked like a slight regression from the models and animations featured in the THQ presentation and the Survey video. Maybe it's just me but I feel like the eyes of Shenhua in the THQ video also have more depth than they do in the Gamescom trailer, not just her expressions itself. Hard to say with the quality of the video though. And yeah, the model of the little girl featured in the Survey video looks more realistic to me than probably any other model we've seen in video so far.

I'll be very interested to see where these models end up in a year's time for sure, and hoping for the best.
 
Am I the only one who thinks Ryo's jacket needs to be a more darker brown? It's the first thing that sticks out to me. TBH its something I can live with .

Being a resident evil fan and seeing the complete changes to famous characters it pales in comparison compared to the slight changes in shenmue 3's characters to the original two. We Just have to roll with it , as shenmue fans we will accept it no matter how off ryo's face is and support shenmue. Newer fans won't have the same attachment to ryo's face either IMO.
 
This was a good analysis that points out some feelings I had about the faces and models upon viewing the newest trailer, where I couldn't help but feel they looked like a slight regression from the models and animations featured in the THQ presentation and the Survey video. Maybe it's just me but I feel like the eyes of Shenhua in the THQ video also have more depth than they do in the Gamescom trailer, not just her expressions itself. Hard to say with the quality of the video though. And yeah, the model of the little girl featured in the Survey video looks more realistic to me than probably any other model we've seen in video so far.

I'll be very interested to see where these models end up in a year's time for sure, and hoping for the best.

I agree. That girl is easily the best character model that we’ve seen to date. I wish that Yu had attended Gamescom this year and so we’d have some interviews which would give us a lot more insight into the current state of development.

Optimistically though, I do feel that the August release date should provide enough time for a very polished game.
 
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