SNK CEO turned down Epic Store Exclusivity & gives some info on the deal.

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Interesting little bit of news that we never really get to hear about. In an interview with the SNK CEO regarding Samurai Shodown, he explains that "a PC Download Platform" (... I guess which one), wanted an exclusive release on the condition of a pre-order of hundreds of thousands. He turned them down as he expects the game to sell millions, but either way if you look at the money involved here it is a huge amount.


Even if we are talking about 100k units sold @ $60, that $6 Million, and the CEO says "hundreds of thousands". Just shows how much money Epic are happy to throw around in order to get games exclusive to their platform. I guess it would be safe to say that Shenmue 3 is a bigger name that Samurai Shodown and at the same time, Samurai Shodowns PC release is going to be after it is released on PS4/Xbox One, which I'd assume decreases it's deal value slightly. I know we will never find out the Epic Store deal amount, but going by this it looks like it's not impossible for in to be in the tens of millions?
 

ShenSun

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Very interesting stuff. I've been a SamSho fan since i was a kid and its not a massive ip at all. If they're willing to give SNK that kind of cash, god knows how much they paid for Shenmue.

That fortnite money tree

Personally, i would have taken the money. There's no way SamSho is gonna sell millions on PC. I hope it does, but there's no plausible data from past titles to suggest it would.
 
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It does provide further insight into why they went with EGS at last minute as it gave them sizeable amount of money and benefits, and as publisher I’m sure Deep Silver was looking to minimize any risk to their investment.

I just wish it was announced in a more transparent manner and fans who wanted steam keys were provided an amenable solution day 1. This could have been a neutral to positive story if handled correctly, alas that wasn’t to be the case.
 

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That's the thing if they offered 500k sales at $40 that's $20million. Hell half that is $10million.

I can see from a business perspective why. As that sort of money plus PS4 sales = Shenmue 4.

From a PR perspective it's been a clusterfuck. I hope they resolve that side of things soon
 
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In the end SNK would have made at the very least $10,000,000 if they had accepted this deal. At first glance it seems crazy that they turned it down but sometimes the perception of your fans and the freedom to sell your content where ever and however you want is worth more. For example, let's say Samurai Showdown sells 100,000 on Epic Games Store. That's an easy $5,000,000 for SNK, but if it sells only that and no more or if it sells less, then it would be good to question if they could have in fact sold more without the stigma of being on such a controversial platform by being on several without upsetting a large portion of their userbase. But the intial offer is just too tempting for most companies to turn down.

This is how Epic Games are being anti competitive and anti consumer, they offer a deal that for most is just too good to be true that they just cant refuse, they throw around money to grab exclusive games to their store, in order to make it look more attractive even though without this deal Developers/Publishers would have little incentive to use Epic's backend when it has less features than anywhere else. (The removal of the 30% cut from other stores is obviously not enough incentive to move to Epic on its own, else they wouldnt be money hatting so hard) Epic are denying other store fronts the opportunity to realistically offer consumers an alternative, because the other stores can not afford to pay several million dollars up front. What other PC store front does this?

Now, this is divorced from the reality of Publishers, and Developers accepting the deal. Most people will, it is hard to turn down such a large amount of money in exchange for relatively little sacrifice. You cant say anyone is wrong for taking this money.

Instead it is the way that Epic Games offer the money that is unfair. They arent helping PC gaming. Games reach less of an audience when forced to be exclusively sold in one store, also when a game has been initially primarily funded through a crowd funding service, like Phoenix Point and Shenmue 3 were, it is just plain wrong to force those backers to be beholden to new rules they never agreed to when they paid at the beginning. At least with Phoenix Point backers are offered a Steam key, when the game launches on Steam, or alternatively a full refund.

So, is Deep Silver and YS Net wrong for accepting the deal? Not at all. Are fans/backers wrong for being upset that the rug has been pull from under them and having to accept they cant get what they originally paid for? That is also a resounding "No" Deep Silver/YS Net had to understand when accepting the deal that fans would be disillusioned and angry but they ultimately decided that this fact was worth less than the money they would receive. Again, its hard to blame them for taking the money. If I were in the same situation I most likely would as well.

Still, there is no reason to not offer a Steam key at the end of the exclusivity period, or to offer refunds immediately. That is something that backers can and should blame Deep Silver/YS Net for. Its been done for others, and its an easy fix.

Anyway, its crazy that the CEO of SNK turned down such a large amount of easy cash. Guess they foresaw the limitations of Epic's money wall.
 
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I love SamSho. I just paid off my preorder in full, but to think a fighting game would sell "millions" is ambitious, especially on PC. To me it feels like SNK knows its a reach for hundreds of thousdands of preorders as is, much less with a decreased userbase on EGS. People who like fighting games tend to REALLY like them. It's a niche genre nowadays. I don't think the EGS hurdle would have impacted SNK's bottom line as much as a Shenmue 3 which has garnered a decent amount of publicity over the years(For reasons good and bad).

SF5 took like 1 year+ to reach their goal of 2 million and that's with Ps4 and PC sales combined. Say what you will about SF5's warts upon its initial release, but Street Fighter is a name that commands more attention than SamSho and they only just reached 3 million sales this year. They made up a lot of ground via season passes and cosmetics, but still they undersold on their initial goal which was 2 million the first year. I guess SNK's strategy is getting it out to more people, but I really don't see think it would've effected them as much.t I guess they don't want to take any risks of pissing the MOB and word-of-mouth people off. The series has been dead for a while, so I guess it make sense that they would treat this situation delicately.
 
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Yes they can.
Ive already been over this. You can believe what you want but the assumption when the kickstarter started was that it would be on Steam at launxh, as well as the fact in the Fangamer survey you can either place your orded for Steam or PS4. You are free to disagree that the perception of it being on Steam isnt a confirmation but Im done replying to this line of thinking. My stance is if that is what people thought, and the kickstarter made zero effort to clarify, that is what it is, a confirmation it would be on Steam.

You wont agree though and itll be best for us both to not just keep talking in circles so thatll be the last I will say for now.
 

24Nathan

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In the end SNK would have made at the very least $10,000,000 if they had accepted this deal. At first glance it seems crazy that they turned it down but sometimes the perception of your fans and the freedom to sell your content where ever and however you want is worth more. For example, let's say Samurai Showdown sells 100,000 on Epic Games Store. That's an easy $5,000,000 for SNK, but if it sells only that and no more or if it sells less, then it would be good to question if they could have in fact sold more without the stigma of being on such a controversial platform by being on several without upsetting a large portion of their userbase. But the intial offer is just too tempting for most companies to turn down.

This is how Epic Games are being anti competitive and anti consumer, they offer a deal that for most is just too good to be true that they just cant refuse, they throw around money to grab exclusive games to their store, in order to make it look more attractive even though without this deal Developers/Publishers would have little incentive to use Epic's backend when it has less features than anywhere else. (The removal of the 30% cut from other stores is obviously not enough incentive to move to Epic on its own, else they wouldnt be money hatting so hard) Epic are denying other store fronts the opportunity to realistically offer consumers an alternative, because the other stores can not afford to pay several million dollars up front. What other PC store front does this?

Now, this is divorced from the reality of Publishers, and Developers accepting the deal. Most people will, it is hard to turn down such a large amount of money in exchange for relatively little sacrifice. You cant say anyone is wrong for taking this money.

Instead it is the way that Epic Games offer the money that is unfair. They arent helping PC gaming. Games reach less of an audience when forced to be exclusively sold in one store, also when a game has been initially primarily funded through a crowd funding service, like Phoenix Point and Shenmue 3 were, it is just plain wrong to force those backers to be beholden to new rules they never agreed to when they paid at the beginning. At least with Phoenix Point backers are offered a Steam key, when the game launches on Steam, or alternatively a full refund.

So, is Deep Silver and YS Net wrong for accepting the deal? Not at all. Are fans/backers wrong for being upset that the rug has been pull from under them and having to accept they cant get what they originally paid for? That is also a resounding "No" Deep Silver/YS Net had to understand when accepting the deal that fans would be disillusioned and angry but they ultimately decided that this fact was worth less than the money they would receive. Again, its hard to blame them for taking the money. If I were in the same situation I most likely would as well.

Still, there is no reason to not offer a Steam key at the end of the exclusivity period, or to offer refunds immediately. That is something that backers can and should blame Deep Silver/YS Net for. Its been done for others, and its an easy fix.

Anyway, its crazy that the CEO of SNK turned down such a large amount of easy cash. Guess they foresaw the limitations of Epic's money wall.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you replace "Epic" with "Sony", "Microsoft", "NBC", "Disney", etc....would it really be all that different? Companies throwing their money around isn't quite the newest thing ever to grace Earth's surface. Truth be told, we don't ever usually hear the details of any of these deals...some might put the Shenmue III deal to shame in terms of "heinousness".

I fully agree that they need to address the Steam issue. I bought a Steam copy as well. But it isn't the end of the world. Before E3 2015, we were all saying how we just wanted a movie, manga, novel, Dreamcast game, Game Gear game, Atari 2600 game....now we're being picky because for a year, we can't mod the game, share cloud saves, etc...I get it. But we have bigger fish to fry. Like actually playing the game we've all waited years for, that was an impossibility.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you replace "Epic" with "Sony", "Microsoft", "NBC", "Disney", etc....would it really be all that different? Companies throwing their money around isn't quite the newest thing ever to grace Earth's surface. Truth be told, we don't ever usually hear the details of any of these deals...some might put the Shenmue III deal to shame in terms of "heinousness".

I fully agree that they need to address the Steam issue. I bought a Steam copy as well. But it isn't the end of the world. Before E3 2015, we were all saying how we just wanted a movie, manga, novel, Dreamcast game, Game Gear game, Atari 2600 game....now we're being picky because for a year, we can't mod the game, share cloud saves, etc...I get it. But we have bigger fish to fry. Like actually playing the game we've all waited years for, that was an impossibility.
When Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo pay for 100% of their games funding, yes, I say it is much more reasonable for them to decide platforms in can be sold on. Epic didnt make Shenmue 3, it existed before them and was admittedly almost done before the deal took place. That is also without taking into account that consoles, unlike PC are traditionally closed platforms

In general I am against third party exclusives on consoles with few exceptions.*

Sony funded Street Fighter V, it would not have been made without Sonys help yet Sony still allowed it to be sold on PC.

That is why there was so much uproar regarding Tomb Raider's initial exclusivity on Xbox One. Square Enix was already making the game, and had previously said it would be on all platforms, they did not need the funding yet Microsoft paid for it to be on their platform for a year exclusively. I am against that kind of behavior.

I am also against the timed exclusive deals that Activision gave PS4 for Call of Duty, and Destiny. That Epic gave for Fortnite And that Square Enix is giving for Avengers. These shouldnt be timed exclusive on PS4 or any platform.

I cant speak of Final Fantasy 7 Remake, my gut feeling is that it shouldnt be locked to PS4 but I dunno if Sony had any hand in development.
 
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When Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo pay for 100% of their games funding, yes, I say it is much more reasonable for them to decide platforms in can be sold on. Epic didnt make Shenmue 3, it existed before them and was admittedly almost done before the deal took place. That is also without taking into account that consoles, unlike PC are traditionally closed platforms

In general I am against third party exclusives on consoles with few exceptions.*

Sony funded Street Fighter V, it would not have been made without Sonys help yet Sony still allowed it to be sold on PC.

That is why there was so much uproar regarding Tomb Raider's initial exclusivity on Xbox One. Square Enix was already making the game, and had previously said it would be on all platforms, they did not need the funding yet Microsoft paid for it to be on their platform for a year exclusively. I am against that kind of behavior.

I am also against the timed exclusive deals that Activision gave PS4 for Call of Duty, and Destiny. That Epic gave for Fortnite And that Square Enix is giving for Avengers. These shouldnt be timed exclusive on PS4 or any platform.

I cant speak of Final Fantasy 7 Remake, my gut feeling is that it shouldnt be locked to PS4 but I dunno if Sony had any hand in development.
Is there any proof that Street Fighter V wouldn't have come out without Sony? Street Fighter is pretty popular and alot XBOX users would love to have on there console. I thought Sony just paid to push Xbox out of the picture.
 
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Is there any proof that Street Fighter V wouldn't have come out without Sony? Street Fighter is pretty popular and alot XBOX users would love to have on there console. I thought Sony just paid to push Xbox out of the picture.
The director, Itsuno said as much. He said that Capcom werent confident enough in the market for fighting games at the time and the game could have either been made for certain with Sony's funding, or that it might be made years later when Capcom felt more confident in the market.
 
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It sounds like Epic is really chasing Japanese games. Perhaps they see that a way to distinguish themselves in other markets.
 
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The director, Itsuno said as much. He said that Capcom werent confident enough in the market for fighting games at the time and the game could have either been made for certain with Sony's funding, or that it might be made years later when Capcom felt more confident in the market.
I kinda hate to hear this. I was hoping that if Sega started doing good maybe the would reinvest in Virtual Fighter again. But if Street Fighter is barely getting by I don't see a future for Virtual Fighter.
 
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I kinda hate to hear this. I was hoping that if Sega started doing good maybe the would reinvest in Virtual Fighter again. But if Street Fighter is barely getting by I don't see a future for Virtual Fighter.
The good news is after Street Fighter V, Capcom did indeed see there was room for advanced skill based fighting games in todays market. The bad news is that the next fighting game they released was Marvel VS Capcom: Infinite, which was really mediocre and had a lot of production problems and wasnt received well.

Games like Guilty Gear xrd, Dragon Ball Fighterz, Mortal Kombat, Tekken, Killer Instinct, Dead or Alive and Super Smash Bros are either doing extemely well or well enough to warrent entries and updates in there series. I could definitely see a game like Virtua Fighter offering a new and wanted style of gameplay missing from fighting games today. The question is, does Sega?

If not, a first party like Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo might need to step in. Nintendo did the same for Beyonetta 2 and 3, without their funding those games would and will not exist since the market is too small. Thus they are Nintendo exclusive.
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you replace "Epic" with "Sony", "Microsoft", "NBC", "Disney", etc....would it really be all that different? Companies throwing their money around isn't quite the newest thing ever to grace Earth's surface. Truth be told, we don't ever usually hear the details of any of these deals...some might put the Shenmue III deal to shame in terms of "heinousness".

I fully agree that they need to address the Steam issue. I bought a Steam copy as well. But it isn't the end of the world. Before E3 2015, we were all saying how we just wanted a movie, manga, novel, Dreamcast game, Game Gear game, Atari 2600 game....now we're being picky because for a year, we can't mod the game, share cloud saves, etc...I get it. But we have bigger fish to fry. Like actually playing the game we've all waited years for, that was an impossibility.
Exactly. Imagine Ys Net turning down tens of millions of dollars for a timed exclusive for PC distribution mind you, just to appease less than 1% of Valve loyalists...who I’m sure will get their steam keys, not from their raging, but because they’re a drop in the bucket to the various streams of revenue available...

Yu Suzuki-sama and Ys Net are not idiots...they’re industry veterans who ran the numbers with Deep Silver and had to do what was best for Shenmue III and the Saga...
 
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