Story Centric Shenmue

I didn't ask for your fucking lecture I don't car know how "wrong" you think I am. It is MY FUCKING OPINION, I like games in my games and that's how it is. You don't like Shenmue 3 good fine, you're allowed to. When you statrt blaming others for not getting what YOU wanted, you make yourself the selfish fucking dickhead you come out to be. Fuck you I am out. You can ban me, I wanted my account gone months ago anyways.
Whilst I don’t condone the language, I can certainly understand the frustration. This is the second or third thread I’ve read today where somebody has told others that their opinions are wrong.
 
I didn't ask for your fucking lecture I don't car know how "wrong" you think I am. It is MY FUCKING OPINION, I like games in my games and that's how it is. You don't like Shenmue 3 good fine, you're allowed to. When you statrt blaming others for not getting what YOU wanted, you make yourself the selfish fucking dickhead you come out to be. Fuck you I am out. You can ban me, I wanted my account gone months ago anyways.


Come on, don't take it like this. That wasn't my intention to tell you're wrong.
My sentence was only about this part:
"
And yet, what's being done cant be replicated in a cinema screen. Tell me that the campfire scene, the walk in Guilin forest or when Shenhua is singing are things that can be done in a movie.

I'll tell you how wrong you are. "

"I'll tell you how wrong you are if you think those scenes could've been done in a movie despite those scenes featuring little to no gameplay".

At no moment I'm thinking you're wrong, I'm saying that view, which is "games have to be mainly gameplay" is narrow minded. It doesn't mean you cant have it though.
 
I hope you guys are not giving YS Net the wrong idea to make a Telltale-like Shenmue, because that would be the death of the series.

I love Shenmue for the world and the story, as a FREE, not just for the story, I don't want a point click adventure or a walking simulator just to have more story.

I think the long 20 years pause tricked many fans that just forgot what Shenmue really was.
 
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Come on, don't take it like this. That wasn't my intention to tell you're wrong.
My sentence was only about this part:
"
And yet, what's being done cant be replicated in a cinema screen. Tell me that the campfire scene, the walk in Guilin forest or when Shenhua is singing are things that can be done in a movie.

I'll tell you how wrong you are. "

"I'll tell you how wrong you are if you think those scenes could've been done in a movie despite those scenes featuring little to no gameplay".

At no moment I'm thinking you're wrong, I'm saying that view, which is "games have to be mainly gameplay" is narrow minded. It doesn't mean you cant have it though.
I'm sorry I wrote my thoughts last night and I must have taken it the wrong way, sometimes anger gets the better of me, I apologize.
 
I'm sorry I wrote my thoughts last night and I must have taken it the wrong way, sometimes anger gets the better of me, I apologize.

Nah it's fine don't worry, I can understand and it clearly wasn't my intention to make you think I was saying what you said was wrong.
 
Disc 4 of Shenmue II, which is really well made, wouldn't feel as powerful if it wasn't for the previous "FREE" chapters.

So an ideal Shenmue IV should be a mixture of both, IMO. And I wouldn't rule out that was the original plan for III, with Baisha being the more linear episode. But they ran out of time (or budget)
 
Disc 4 of Shenmue II, which is really well made, wouldn't feel as powerful if it wasn't for the previous "FREE" chapters.

So an ideal Shenmue IV should be a mixture of both, IMO. And I wouldn't rule out that was the original plan for III, with Baisha being the more linear episode. But they ran out of time (or budget)
Yes, I did not mind Disc 4 because it's not too long and there was a ton of gameplay built up to it also it's not all walking either, there are QTE's and even little puzzles and multiple choices that will change Shenhua's reactions, now if the whole game were this way I'd hate it, but it works in small doses.

I do tend to believe and we have quite a lot of proof that Yu put all of his eggs in the gameplay basket because he only had the resources staff and money to fully back only story or gameplay and in a game, gameplay is more important. Unfortunately, he was in a "rock and a hard place" situation. The positive aspect is that with a strong game foundation in 3, it won't be too hard to refine the gameplay and add back in the cool "Shenmue" thing we miss from 1 and 2. I commend Yu and his team they did the best with what they had and had to make a big decision many in the fanbase do not like and that was backing gameplay more than story. It does not matter which decison they made either way, they were going to make a portion of the fans angry or disappointed.

This is why I think Shenmue 2 is the most balanced it had the best of both worlds. I tend to be more positive on Shenmue 3 because I am a more gameplay oriented person, but at the end of the day what Shenmue 3 lacks desperately is balance. It also doesn't help some of Yu's experiments didn't go over so well with the fanbase, such as the stamina system.
 
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The thing that sours me about the Shenhua character is that the "psychology game" was already in YS mind a long time ago.
But honestly having a low budget is not the time to experiment much.
 
The thing that sours me about the Shenhua character is that the "psychology game" was already in YS mind a long time ago.
But honestly having a low budget is not the time to experiment much.


On the opposite. It's the best time to experiment new type of things and depart from the usual stuff. Instead, all of the new promising stuff was scrapped (it could also be that, it wasn't working well) and the regular stuff was focused on.
 
No, it's fine for a indie team of 1 person throwing stuff to the wall to see what sticks.
Not for a team of 30 people on a payroll.
 
I’m really hoping they cram a lot of story into the 4th game and don’t think there necessarily needs to be a series of main villains to drive the story along.

In my eyes the game would be great if....
They stop off in a town near to the cliff temple (Baisha) to come up with a plan. Upon arriving, they find that the locals are having trouble with the CYM. Ryo saves an elderly Marshall artist from a group of CYM and learns that the man actually knew Iwao (who had also stopped off in the town on his way to the cliff temple 20 years ago). Ryo actually asks some questions about his father and we learn why he was traveling through China. The man suggests that there might be others who remember Iwao and Ryo speaks to 2/3 other martial artists who knew and trained with Iwao and talking with them fills in many of the gaps in the story. They also teach you a few moves (because there wasn’t anywhere near enough of that in S3) and that the best fighters bide their time while reading their opponents’ movements before striking at the ideal moment instead of just throwing their fists around (as we’ve seen with every master we’ve encountered so far).

After learning all there is to learn in Baisha, the town is invaded by CYM (think 70 man battle) and Ryo and the other martial artists have to fight them off. The group succeeds, but one of them is killed in the process (at the moment it really feels like the stakes are very low considering how dangerous some of these gangs are supposed to be). This tells the player that we’re not fucking around anymore and that the CYM aren’t just another punk gang. As with Shenhua in S3, the nighttime scenes here are used to develop Ren’s character a little more.

After the battle, the group decide to head to the temple. Ren decides to infiltrate the castle by himself and open a side entrance but gets caught and locked up. Ryo has to fight his way through the temple and finds that Ren is locked up with none other than Niao San.

The group form an uneasy alliance after she agrees to tell them where in the temple she hid the mirror and after retrieving it they work their way through the temple towards the dragon mirror. Just as they arrive however, she tries to attack Ryo but is stopped by Ren who pulls out his knife. She’s too fast for him though and manages to disarm him and comes at Ryo with the knife. After a QTE scene, Ryo dodges and incapacitates her before heading into the room where the dragon mirror is kept.

Of course, Lan Di is waiting for them as he thinks they are heading there with the Phoenix mirror. A fight ensues, but unlike last time Ryo is able to land a few blows. Lan Di gets serious and floors Ryo, taking the Phoenix mirror. He now sees him as a threat and decides its time to finish him off for good, but, at the last second, Ren steps in and stabs Lan Di. Lan Di kills Ren, but as he is wounded and now has both mirrors, decides to leave and heads back to Tentei.

Ryo carries Ren back to Baisha and they burn his body in a giant treasure chest shaped coffin. Through his grief and the following conversations with Shenhua, he begins to realize the consequences of his choice to pursue vengeance and even spots the parallels between himself and Lan Di. For the first time in his journey he begins to question the path he’s taken and decides that he needs to find out the truth about what happened between Iwao and Sunming Zhao.

The game takes us on a train to meng sun. Ryo arrives to find no information but soon finds himself in trouble with the local CYM. He ends up their prisoner and is taken to their leader in that area, Ziming Hong. After realizing their connection through the pendant that LT gave Ryo, Ziming reveals that he is still working to take down the CYM and avenge his family and points Ryo to a small village nearby.

After asking around in the village, Ryo is sent to speak with a reclusive man who lives on the edge of town. When Ryo asks if he knows anything about Sunming Zhao, the man’s demeanor changes. He asks who Ryo is and why he’s asking and, after Ryo explains, tells Ryo that he hasn’t heard that name in a long time. Yes, of course, this man is Sunming Zhao and he is very much alive. Fin.

I think this would set up S5 to cleanly wrap up the series. We learn about the true power of the mirrors from SZ at the beginning, travel to the place where the mirrors are going to be used (maybe back to Hong Kong), meet the 4th CYM leader, have a big showdown between the CYM with Ziming showing his true colors and Lan Di performing a heel turn when he realizes that his father is still alive. Ryo confronts Tentei (Zu Yuanda) and we learn Shenhua’s true power (she’s key to stopping whatever it is the mirrors do).

Sorry. I’m bored at work.
That read was so godlike you had me dreaming there. Good stuff!
 
That read was so godlike you had me dreaming there. Good stuff!
Haha. If I can come up with that in twenty minutes, just imagine what Yu Suzuki’s been able to come up with in 20+ years! Shenmue 4 is going to be amazing.
 
Haha. If I can come up with that in twenty minutes, just imagine what Yu Suzuki’s been able to come up with in 20+ years! Shenmue 4 is going to be amazing.
I honestly have zero doubt in my mind Shenmue 4 will happen. Just a matter of time. If it ends up half as amazing as what you came up with, shit would still be mind blowing. More amazing than that I'll probably just die right there on the spot from a happyness overdose lol.
 
I try not to get involved in fanfic because ultimately Suzuki is an auteur and he is going to follow his vision and if people get invested in their own story, that typically leads to disappointment.

One key part of @tomboz writing is there are consequences and stakes. That was completely absent in Shenmue 3 and made the game feel very hollow. It’s something I really hope Suzuki takes a strong look at when arranging chapters for a potential Shenmue 4.
 
story telling in Shenmue 3 was many levels worse than Shenmue 1 and 2, both in quantity and also quality. The story barely advances, you speak to major characters for all of 5 minutes and are then expected to believe its believable they'll come on a big dangerous mission with you at the end. busy work and mini games took centre stage in Shenmue 3 when they were always just garnish/atmosphere builders in the previous titles. I don't know if this is because they felt compelled to do this due to fans focusing on them too much.. but that is what happened.

But lets be honest, the real reason Shenmue 1 and 2 were so amazing was the environments, the music and just as importantly the story and characters presented at a level never seen before..

If we are lucky enough to get Shnemue 4, re-use all the mini-games etc and put all time into the story and environments
 
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