SuperEyePatchWolf: "Shenmue III is a terrible game and I've wasted my life"

Joined
Aug 22, 2018
Location
Japan
Favourite title
Shenmue II
Why is it weird to believe? For example I only heard abou Code Vein because I follow E3 videos and such, seemed generic and never saw anything ever again after that presentation.
Fair enough. Perhaps it was bigger over here than it was in the west.

Either way it seems a strange decision to compare a niche series like Shenmue to two fairly well known games (one of which is published by Nintendo) and suggest that they are the niche games.
 

spud1897

Administrator
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Location
England
Favourite title
Shenmue II
Currently playing
Destiny 2, Shenmue HD ;)
PSN
spud19870
The Deep Silver thing is in some ways excusable as there are plenty of articles out there that jumped on that report and ran with it, although a little bit of digging would have shown him that those articles were inaccurate and he would have no doubt happened upon the actual comments from Embracer in the process.

The sales figures make no sense though.

Every article I’ve seen makes it very clear that those sales figures only cover Japan, as do the game’s Wikipedia page and the google answer for ‘How many copies did Shenmue 3 sell?’. I really don’t see how anybody could make this mistake without trying to.

As a bit of an aside, are there really people out there who have never heard of Astral Chain and Code Vein? Both have shifted over a million copies and Astral Chain is pushing a 90 on Metacritic. I think SEPW perhaps doesn’t realize that Shenmue is something of a niche series nowadays.
Agreed given the initial "predictions" for want of a better expression before the financials. However these were debunked pretty quickly, not only on here but within a few days when the financials happened.

That's a strange one. All I had to do to link the article was google Shenmue III sale and I got my choice of articles, readily available, so I went with the top one. I think it's a pretty poor oversight given the information is literally everywhere and only serves to fit the narrative. As I'm sure many are aware, Shenmue III likely didn't sell masses but it's done considerably better than suggested in this video.

You raise a good point re Astral Chain and Code Vein. Both I've heard of, never played, but they seem to be in and around alot of gaming conversations. The point about Shenmue being a niche series is extremely valid. I think, even within the fanbase, there's some that think Shenmue is a bigger name than it is in terms of sales. Yes it's known in gaming circles for what it pioneered but it is divisive. I suspect Deep Silver saw the kickstarter and thought it would maybe power sales on more than it may have done. Whereas in reality Shenmue was always a niche game with a dedicated following.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
I’m not suggesting that the fan base dropped the ball in any way (although I do wonder whether perhaps some had set their expectations a little too highly) and agree entirely that mistakes were made by both the developer and the publisher (although without knowing everything that went on behind the scenes, it’s difficult to pinpoint exactly what all of these mistakes were with any level of surety). Ultimately though, for whatever reason, these mistakes were made and no amount of discussion or criticism can change them.

In an ideal world the game would have been a critical hit and we wouldn’t be once again left wondering whether or not we’d ever see the conclusion of the series, but that’s where we are and pointing out that mistakes were made isn’t going to change that.

With this in mind, I think that maintaining a positive outlook and acknowledging the things that the game did right whilst offering suggestions on how the things that it got wrong could be improved moving forwards could help in some small way. I’m aware that in all likelihood it won’t make a difference, but I would rather do something than nothing.

Anyway. I think we’re starting to pull this thread a little off topic, so if you’d like to continue this line of discussion feel free to PM me or start a new topic. I do feel like the conversation is heading towards ground that’s been covered many times before though.
This is the point that many are missing, it's not like the more you trash the game, the more a masterpiece the next game will be.
They are just beating the dead horse with the excuse of constructive criticism (that is just a mask for some people's impossible expectations built in nearly 20 years).

After 8 months I think the message was delivered to Yu Suzuki (if he ever need it, he know pro and cons of S3 betten than all of us), now that "feedback" is starting to become a kind of spam.
It's not like we're trying to censor complains, it's just that such feedback is not needed now, as it's doing more harm than good.

From the point of view of a normal gamer, when you approach the Shenmue franchise you'll only encounter a lot of negativity (with some very vocal people stating that S3 is a terrible game), with other more reasonable and honest fans that still admits that the games has its flaws.
But in the end the message that a potential new gamer get is "a terrible game that even fanboys struggle to defend".

That needs to change if we want Shenmue 4 and 5.
Look at Nintendo fans for example, they literally send death treats to reviewers who dare to give 9/10 to Zelda instead of 10/10.

Of course we don't have to transform in such deviated fanbase, but we cannot even continue to condone the self-damage that this same fanbase is doing since 2015.
At one point we should start to defend our favourite franchise.
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Yeah, agreed that the sales part was sloppy. As we've seen with lots of SIII coverage pre- and post-release, it's easier to simply follow and reinforce the current narrative surrounding a game instead of looking deeper to challenge it. Classic confirmation bias. I'm sure SIII sales weren't fantastic, but portraying Japan sales as a world-wide total (and that's precisely what you're doing if you choose not to mention region),...presumably because that's the only number he could find, is sloppy.
 
Joined
Aug 22, 2018
Location
Japan
Favourite title
Shenmue II
Agreed given the initial "predictions" for want of a better expression before the financials. However these were debunked pretty quickly, not only on here but within a few days when the financials happened.

That's a strange one. All I had to do to link the article was google Shenmue III sale and I got my choice of articles, readily available, so I went with the top one. I think it's a pretty poor oversight given the information is literally everywhere and only serves to fit the narrative. As I'm sure many are aware, Shenmue III likely didn't sell masses but it's done considerably better than suggested in this video.

You raise a good point re Astral Chain and Code Vein. Both I've heard of, never played, but they seem to be in and around alot of gaming conversations. The point about Shenmue being a niche series is extremely valid. I think, even within the fanbase, there's some that think Shenmue is a bigger name than it is in terms of sales. Yes it's known in gaming circles for what it pioneered but it is divisive. I suspect Deep Silver saw the kickstarter and thought it would maybe power sales on more than it may have done. Whereas in reality Shenmue was always a niche game with a dedicated following.
He does actually link his source for the sales data in the video description (it’s the same one you posted earlier) and the article makes it very clear that the sales data is for Japan only in the opening sentence. It’s not surprising that he chose not to include a screenshot of it on screen like he did with the other 2 articles that he referenced immediately after.
 

spud1897

Administrator
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Location
England
Favourite title
Shenmue II
Currently playing
Destiny 2, Shenmue HD ;)
PSN
spud19870
He does actually link his source for the sales data in the video description (it’s the same one you posted earlier) and the article makes it very clear that the sales data is for Japan only in the opening sentence. It’s not surprising that he chose not to include a screenshot of it on screen like he did with the other 2 articles that he referenced immediately after.
That just makes it worse in that respect. Forgiving the article title it's very clearly written in sales were for week one only.
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
This is the point that many are missing, it's not like the more you trash the game, the more a masterpiece the next game will be.
They are just beating the dead horse with the excuse of constructive criticism (that is just a mask for some people's impossible expectations built in nearly 20 years).

After 8 months I think the message was delivered to Yu Suzuki (if he ever need it, he know pro and cons of S3 betten than all of us), now that "feedback" is starting to become a kind of spam.
It's not like we're trying to censor complains, it's just that such feedback is not needed now, as it's doing more harm than good.

From the point of view of a normal gamer, when you approach the Shenmue franchise you'll only encounter a lot of negativity (with some very vocal people stating that S3 is a terrible game), with other more reasonable and honest fans that still admits that the games has its flaws.
But in the end the message that a potential new gamer get is "a terrible game that even fanboys struggle to defend".

That needs to change if we want Shenmue 4 and 5.
Look at Nintendo fans for example, they literally send death treats to reviewers who dare to give 9/10 to Zelda instead of 10/10.

Of course we don't have to transform in such deviated fanbase, but we cannot even continue to condone the self-damage that this same fanbase is doing since 2015.
At one point we should start to defend our favourite franchise.


I have no issues arguing in favor of a franchise I love. But let's be honest: I can definitely recommend Shenmue I and II to anyone because of how amazing they are. Shenmue III on the other hand is a tough sell. It's hard to defend something that you dont even like. Then again, the fans aren't at fault here. The publisher and developpers are. Why should we need to tone down or do the job when what they had to do was to deliver a good game ?
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
I have no issues arguing in favor of a franchise I love. But let's be honest: I can definitely recommend Shenmue I and II to anyone because of how amazing they are. Shenmue III on the other hand is a tough sell. It's hard to defend something that you dont even like. Then again, the fans aren't at fault here. The publisher and developpers are. Why should we need to tone down or do the job when what they had to do was to deliver a good game ?
Actually they delivered an objectively good game.

But that apart, because it's in your (our) best interest to not damage a series you (we) love, even if you don't like one chapter.

We don't have control of what publishers and developers do, but we have control of what we (as a fanbase) do.
We have some responsibilites too, especially when we are extremely vocal.
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Actually they delivered an objectively good game.

But that apart, because it's in your (our) best interest to not damage a series you (we) love, even if you don't like one chapter.

We don't have control of what publishers and developers do, but we have control of what we (as a fanbase) do.
We have some responsibilites too, especially when we are extremely vocal.

Objectively ? I dont know. There's no objectivity in how something resonate with us. But if you want to go by some metrics, if you look at review agregators, no, "objectively" it wasn't a good game. Fair, average, decent, yes, maybe.

As for the rest, my interest isnt to lie either. And shifting the blame onto the people who didnt like it seems rather weird. Honest criticism is the most important thing. If people all reacted positively to the 2017 trailer, maybe we would've got those faces. The only people responsible for the reception of the game are the people who made it and sold it. Not the people who played it'
 

Sonoshee

Site Staff
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Favourite title
Shenmue
In your opinion, it's a good game. In my opinion, it's not. Not a bad game either. Just an average one. And well, as a whole, looking at review agregators, it's sitting at an average score. Not exactly what I'd call a game that resonated among critics as a good game.
Constantly bashing Shenmue 3 over its faults (that I'm sure Yu is now well aware of) won't do us all any good.
We have enough people out there ripping into it, we don't need fans continuing to do it at this point. The community needs to put all that energy together and push for a fourth game instead.

Shenmue 3 is what it is. And no amount of hating on it will change that.
 

spud1897

Administrator
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Location
England
Favourite title
Shenmue II
Currently playing
Destiny 2, Shenmue HD ;)
PSN
spud19870
Objectively ? I dont know. There's no objectivity in how something resonate with us. But if you want to go by some metrics, if you look at review agregators, no, "objectively" it wasn't a good game. Fair, average, decent, yes, maybe.

As for the rest, my interest isnt to lie either. And shifting the blame onto the people who didnt like it seems rather weird. Honest criticism is the most important thing. If people all reacted positively to the 2017 trailer, maybe we would've got those faces. The only people responsible for the reception of the game are the people who made it and sold it. Not the people who played it'
On the whole yes the Dev's/Publishers were responsible for the product but you're ignoring the fact that over the dev cylce there was so much mis-information being branded out it hardly helped the image of the franchise either.
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Constantly bashing Shenmue 3 over its faults (that I'm sure Yu is now well aware of) won't do us all any good.
We have enough people out there ripping into it, we don't need fans continuing to do it at this point. The community needs to put all that energy together and push for a fourth game instead.

Shenmue 3 is what it is. And no amount of hating on it will change that.

Fair point.


On the whole yes the Dev's/Publishers were responsible for the product but you're ignoring the fact that over the dev cylce there was so much mis-information being branded out it hardly helped the image of the franchise either.

I blame the publisher here. Completly out of the loop.
 

spud1897

Administrator
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Location
England
Favourite title
Shenmue II
Currently playing
Destiny 2, Shenmue HD ;)
PSN
spud19870
Fair point.





I blame the publisher here. Completly out of the loop.
How can you blame the publisher for any information pre-2017?

Post 2017 they should assume some responsibility (use of assets being one) but it's hardly their fault when youtubers in the post-epic world cited wrong research, wrong figures pop up before financials. All added to it. But I would agree I don't think they handled the franchise well, overall at all.
 
Joined
Jun 11, 2019
We don't have control of what publishers and developers do, but we have control of what we (as a fanbase) do.
We have some responsibilites too, especially when we are extremely vocal.
I think S4 is either a done deal by now or it's not. I don't think reviews will have much of an impact on the agreements between Deep Silver and Ys Net.

We have to keep in mind that what we're talking about is a product being sold to consumers. Anyone and everyone has a right to review it any way they see fit. It's not just for us to talk about. If anyone can buy it then anyone can talk about it.

The responsibilities lie with the people who made it and sell it. If they want favorable reviews and reception then they need to make a good game, just like every other developer/publisher.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Objectively ? I dont know. There's no objectivity in how something resonate with us. But if you want to go by some metrics, if you look at review agregators, no, "objectively" it wasn't a good game. Fair, average, decent, yes, maybe.

As for the rest, my interest isnt to lie either. And shifting the blame onto the people who didnt like it seems rather weird. Honest criticism is the most important thing. If people all reacted positively to the 2017 trailer, maybe we would've got those faces. The only people responsible for the reception of the game are the people who made it and sold it. Not the people who played it'
Well Shenmue 3 reached 68 in meta (it lost one point just recently), and in a 1/10 scale, 7 means good.

Honest criticism is essential, and we already did our part in this.
But with S3 we saw lots of hate since 2015, starting with "sony already paid, they are stealing our money" and it continued at any new screenshot and trailer reveal.
Despite for example from publisher clearly state that all footage was "a work in progress", people instead decided ti spread false informations saying that those were all final results.

These people have a responsibility for the damage they are doing since 2015, and that reflected directly even on actual sales.
 

Sonoshee

Site Staff
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Favourite title
Shenmue
Despite for example from publisher clearly state that all footage was "a work in progress", people instead decided ti spread false informations saying that those were all final results.
Yeah. The reaction at the lack of facial animations during development was what really left a sour taste in my mouth.
It clearly said "work in progress" and anyone should know what that means, especially when the game is a year or two away from release. Yu even had to go out and explain that they were still working on the models so the animation wasn't implimented at that point. Unbelievable.
 

spud1897

Administrator
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Location
England
Favourite title
Shenmue II
Currently playing
Destiny 2, Shenmue HD ;)
PSN
spud19870
I think S4 is either a done deal by now or it's not. I don't think reviews will have much of an impact on the agreements between Deep Silver and Ys Net.
If Deep Silver are even involved. I could be speaking out of turn here but would Yu Suzuki be interested in working with them again? Would you if it were your game?
 
Top