The Idea of Shenmue Fans Privately Funding Shenmue IV & V

Possibly yes, but it's unclear if Shenmue Gai did indeed have pay to play elements to it. Those really started to hit their stride around the 2012/2013 mark. These days, I would agree they are more commonplace. They are just accepted now, and not criticized or lambasted against. My dad literally spends hours a day on Farmville is it called? Looks like Rollercoaster Tycoon to me, but of course I recognise all of those coins, and friends gifts mechanics built in etc. Hell I've paid for more money on some slots game i played a while back. I think it was Pharaoh's Slots? All sorts of offers. Like a 15 minute window to get 500% extra free. They are very clever, and as long as it's packaged up right, as well as offering legitimate fun, who's to judge?

In this day and age, YS could release a mobile game, generate millions in revenue a year, and it wouldn't make headline news anywhere. Such is the acceptance and nature of mobiles games in this day and age. The more time goes on, and Shenmue IV looks less and less likely, other avenues being explored is a smart business decision. The anime is an example of that. If YSNET release a mobile game, it would an equally smart decision. If that happened tomorrow, you can be absolutely sure as shit that I would be buying it, and dropping all sorts of money into it. Especially if it's a brand new IP, totally owned by YSNET. If I know the money is going directly to him, and not Sega, Koch, or anyone else.... I would be absolutely ecstatic.

We are skewing off topic a bit, perhaps this deserves a topic of its own maybe?
I like the way you're thinking. I think many of us are trapped, thinking "Shenmue IV NEEDS TO BE EXACTLY LIKE THE OTHER GAMES" or "YU SUZUKI NEEDS 4 or 5 MORE ENTRIES TO FINISH SHENMUE." There's certainly ways to see the story to completion. The question is does Yu Suzuki want to compromise more than he already has? I feel like he doesn't, but in fairness--I've also never spoken to him and have no idea what he really thinks about things!
 
That's a lot of money for some people. And the shit show that was the S3 kickstarter as well as mixed reviews, I'm sure that turned a decent chunk of people off. They may not necessarily be done with the series, but funding it themselves?...those days are likely over for them. New console generation is taking off and thinking people are going to forego buying all these new games just so they can play one game that may or may not ever come out? Good luck. 360 dollars to put towards a video game. I personally cant justify that.
 
Patreon-style fan-funding works when you're constantly delivering content. If it takes several years to deliver anything at all then that's a horrible risk to take for those putting money in, especially when funding something as volatile as game development. I don't think I'd even be up for that, to be honest.

Also, I agree that all the "fan" whining and moaning would not be worth it.

How was the kickstarter a "shitshow"?
Recency bias is a thing. They got off on the wrong foot due to misinformation around Sony's involvement, and the Epic store stuff was a severe low point which came just before launch.

Everything in the middle was pretty much fine in my opinion, but people only remember the lowest lows.

Kickstarter campaigns can be a lot, lot worse than S3's, trust me.
 
Thanks to SM3 Kickstarter we have more Shenmue in the horizon.

With a number of sales and audience to target, it's all in the hands of sales managers to find the best producer and secure a budget.
 
Kickstarter campaigns can be a lot, lot worse than S3's, trust me.
Yeah, to put it all in perspective we got the game + the goodies - with only the jackets still outstanding (which I'm told they still intend to deliver whenever whatever has held them up resolves).

Communication was generally okay in regards to direct messages and working to help with problems when they arose. Like much of the project this was handled on a shoestring and if you go looking elsewhere you'll likely find better examples of communication from savvier social media-oriented studios, but it's hardly a crime to not have your finger on that particular pulse or being too stretched as a team (or a solo operation) to put much time into it.

Project updates are a similar story too, and looking back at some of the complaints about content and frequency this long after release? It puts a lot in perspective, and looking at other campaigns you can see that impatient people are often the loudest... and the most rude.

On the whole it was fine, but YsNet were on the end of a lot more scrutiny from fans and press alike than they really deserved to be.
 
Kingdom Come Deliverance is one of the best RPG'S I've ever played recently and it had its roots also on Kickstarter, just like Shenmue 3.

In fact if you ever played Kingdom Come Deliverance you surely know that there is Shenmue DNA in it; I would even risk to say that it has more DNA in it than Shenmue 3.
One of the main reasons KCD shares most of its gameplay mechanics with those of the Shenmue games is because one of its lead directors Daniel Vavrá is a Shenmue fan.
Daniel Vavra.jpg

The Game had a 300.000 thousand goal and ended up raising almost 2.000.000 million pledged over by 35.000 backers wich is nothing compared with Shenmue 3's numbers.

The game ended up costing more than 36.000.000 million to make.

Kingdom Come Deliverance ended up selling 3.000.000 million copies.

THQ NORDIC Aquired Warhorse Studios for 33.200.000 million deal.

The KCD project started with 15 people; it ended up being made by 110 developers; currently they are 140 and want to hire up 180 for their next project.

This is what I wished would have happened with YS NET and Shenmue 3 but unfortunately it did not; specially because of all the expectations from fans, all the controversies and plus not being properly funded specially by Sega and Sony wich I think could have done a lot more for the revival of the series.

I wish Yu Suzuki and YS NET can make a proper deal with EPIC since for me they are basically the only ones I see that can afford to risk to invest in series giving it the proper budget it deserves for the full Shenmue experience that we all love.

I would really like to see for them to announce Shenmue 4 in the last episode of the anime if all goes well and it ends up being a hit.

If by the end of 2022 we get nothing I believe our only chance is to try and fund the game ourselves; if not I can't really see much hope for the series to end up in a video game form.
 
Yeah Warhorse Studio had a very unique way, nothing of this was planned
and it was very very very risky.

They started from scratch with a completely new IP and studio, they had no real budget and no team,
so they had to ask developer friends if they could work for them basically for free.
They had to borrow money and get help from an investor to get everything started and to make a small game prototype.
Then they tried to sell the prototype to a publisher but all of them said no. (too expensive, too niche)
After that there was no budget left and the developers had to work for free for months
until they came up with the kickstarter idea which they only started because
they had a lot of positive gamer feedback from the EU zone.

I think they only wanted like 300.000-500.000 USD for the whole thing
but then they got almost 2 mil. They also got extra help from another investor who really liked the idea of the game
and then because of the success and quality of the kickstarter campaign, Deep Silver came on board
as the official publisher and then because of the success of the final product,
Koch Media (parent company of Deep Silver) bought the whole studio.

So this was like the best possible outcome for Warhorse but there were some parts in that whole time frame
where they were only one step away from closing the whole studio.
Like they had literally zero budget after the prototype and without Kickstarter the whole project would have been cancelled.
It probably helped a lot that the deals were made by EU companies
and a big czech team is probably not as expensive as a US or japanese team.
Also this type of game is very popular in the east and middle european zone,
germans, polish, czech and russian people love this type of 'dark dirty medieval' stuff ...
(for example the german Gothic IP was completely carried by germans, polish, czech and russian gamers)
and Deep Silver / Koch Media is a german-austrian company ... sooooo
a lot of luck and going all in was involved.
 
The fact remains if we have to Kickstarter again. we should all be in on it. Seriously.

And, if someone can use the connections they have to others close to Yu, perhaps we need to figure out how to make this a reality because the series should receive a finish. Regardless of the crybabies about S3, you should have been happy we even got the chance to get 3 and it kinda pisses me off its people like that could have ruined a good thing.
 
Kickstarter really isn't that big of a deal anymore, and there's just no chance Shenmue IV would make any kind of impact compared to Shenmue III. Shenmue III broke records because it was announced 15 years (give or take) after Shenmue II and people were in disbelief; plus, it was announced at a very publicized event thousands of people watched. Shenmue IV would probably be announced in a tiny E-mail blast and make a fraction of Shenmue III's funds. Then there's all the negative energy that surrounded the Shenmue III Kickstarter; that would easily carry over to the new one and also help sink it
 
I say another probable solution is that we, as fans, come together and we make our own publishing company (with lucky hit and sailors) to get the rest of Shenmue released.
 
I think the best way to fund the future of Shenmue is a mix of 3 different things :

1) Accept that Shenmue will be a low-budget "indie" game. In a sense, that we won't get a big "AAA" style Shenmue again. So keeping the game dev at the easiest and lowest possible.

2) Sega get involved again (or another publisher, but Sega would be better for licensing of games and gacha). So that it can have a good starting money and maybe having help inside the studio (maybe using Yakuza's engine etc...)

3) Having rich private individuals further funding the game to then pay lower taxes. It happens pretty ofter here in Switzerland and in Europe in general, that many rich people spend millions on art (any art), just to get a tax deduction. They don't care if it will ever bring them money or anything, they don't care about the quality of the product, the main goal is tax evasion. So yes, ethically speaking, being financed like that might not be super great, but hey, at least Shenmue gets made.

I remain optimistic about the future of the series. But yeah, I also realize that the situation is far from ideal.
 
3) Having rich private individuals further funding the game to then pay lower taxes. It happens pretty ofter here in Switzerland and in Europe in general, that many rich people spend millions on art (any art), just to get a tax deduction. They don't care if it will ever bring them money or anything, they don't care about the quality of the product, the main goal is tax evasion. So yes, ethically speaking, being financed like that might not be super great, but hey, at least Shenmue gets made.
I heard that's what Uwe Boll did
 
Patreon-style fan-funding works when you're constantly delivering content. If it takes several years to deliver anything at all then that's a horrible risk to take for those putting money in, especially when funding something as volatile as game development. I don't think I'd even be up for that, to be honest.

Also, I agree that all the "fan" whining and moaning would not be worth it.


Recency bias is a thing. They got off on the wrong foot due to misinformation around Sony's involvement, and the Epic store stuff was a severe low point which came just before launch.

Everything in the middle was pretty much fine in my opinion, but people only remember the lowest lows.

Kickstarter campaigns can be a lot, lot worse than S3's, trust me.
I know im late, but the final game didnt include seven out of the first (and thus most important) seven fucking kickstarter’s stretch goals, subs and cinema shorts excluded. No explanation given.

I would say that beyond running away with the money and not releasing the game, thats about as big of a shitshow as you can get from a kickstarter.

Or am i the only Shenmue fan that remembers the first things they promised were rapport system, skill tree system and baisha village as the main story place?
 
But as I understand it, other things that didn't reach a stretch goal was implemented in the final game. I'm not saying it's not crap we didn't get these things, but compared to other Kickstarters, we were pretty damn lucky.
 
I know im late, but the final game didnt include seven out of the first (and thus most important) seven fucking kickstarter’s stretch goals, subs and cinema shorts excluded. No explanation given.

I would say that beyond running away with the money and not releasing the game, thats about as big of a shitshow as you can get from a kickstarter.

Or am i the only Shenmue fan that remembers the first things they promised were rapport system, skill tree system and baisha village as the main story place?
The rapport system is implemented, but not as big as it was supposed to be. The Skill tree has been remplaced by Skill book system. Baisha wasn't supposed to be THE main story, but a place among the story and sadly hasn't been implemented. And that's the only point they didn't implement at all. The other two, even though somewhat below what we were expecting, they were there.

It's worth noting that it is the case in most (if not all) crowdfunded game. A game often has to change plans, cut its content, change its direction during development. Most of the time, we don't know about it, because we aren't told what is being developed, since generally they announce games once they are at and advanced stage of development and the final direction has been taken. Crowdfunded game, obviously, you follow the developement from its (almost) beginning until the end. So you can see almost in-real time the change in direction. And that's the case for the vast majority of crowdfunded games.

But in the meantime they also implemented stuffs that were higher tier goals that they did implement, even though the goal wasn't reached, up to tier 10,5 millions.

These things aren't new to Kickstarter/Crowdfunding. They happen pretty often. That's part of crowdfunding too. When you accept to crowdfund a game, you take a risk that the game isn't going to be good, that it's gonna change direction at some point and not deliver the wanted product... Sometimes, I feel like people critisize Shenmue 3's Kickstarter very harshly, when in reality it's the whole Crowdfunding system that they are criticizing.

Shenmue 3 Kickstarter is an example of shitty communication, apart from that, the rest is pretty normal for a Crowdfunded game, and they got shat on for it too harshly IMO.

Also, side note, your message feels pretty passive-aggressive. Maybe it's the language barrier that makes me feel that or maybe you really are, but please, it would be great if you would remain respectful.
 
Well, yes, i have a very direct writing style which gets accentuated by writing in english, but in what world was my post disrespectful in any way? Sensitive much?

Anyway i wont start an argument over S3, but most of what you wrote about it is factually wrong.

I followed the KS from beginning and Baisha was were the main juice of the game was going to happen, as it was supposed to host the Chi You Men hideout, the siege/infiltration mission and the character perspective (aka, play as someone else other than Ryo) system.

Even completely ignoring the order of the stretch goals, some of the first concept art revealed was about the circular buildings that were going to characterize Baisha, anyone Who followed the KS can remember that.
 
Sensitive much?
This, here, is the perfect exemple of passive-aggressiveness. But anyway.
Anyway i wont start an argument over S3, but most of what you wrote about it is factually wrong.
Well, tell me where they are factually wrong then. Saying "you're wrong" isn't an argument.

I followed the KS from beginning and Baisha was were the main juice of the game was going to happen, as it was supposed to host the Chi You Men hideout, the siege/infiltration mission and the character perspective (aka, play as someone else other than Ryo) system.

Even completely ignoring the order of the stretch goals, some of the first concept art revealed was about the circular buildings that were going to characterize Baisha, anyone Who followed the KS can remember that.
Yes, I remember this. But nowhere was it said that it was THE main place of Shenmue 3. But the place where the most action would be going. But again, that's just 1 place among 3. And they ended making the two first places bigger than intended.
 
Yes, they Made the 2 other places bigger than intended, but they didnt deliver the 7 most important dev goals they set themselves, hence me calling the KS a proper shit-show. XD

And barely anyone called them out on it.

Anyway, i go back to being excited as hell for the anime. :)
 
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