The Mirrors

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Hi everyone. I'm new here.

I have a question about the Dragon and Phoenix Mirrors. In Shenmue I, Master Chen says that "when the Dragon and the Phoenix meet, the gates of Heaven and Earth will open, and Chi You will resurrect itself on Earth." He describes Chi You as a legendary Chinese monster that will devour the world.
Skip ahead to Shenmue II, Yuanda Zhu says that the Dragon and Phoenix Mirrors together form a map to the treasure of the Quing Dynasty.

So one statement about the Mirrors is about summoning Chi You, and another about finding the treasure of the Quing Dynasty, with no mention of the monster. I'm just wondering what will the mirrors actually do once they are brought together?
 

AXM

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Perhaps it's both.
I think someone has done a deep dive analysis of this before. I forget who and where it is though.
 
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I haven't been on this site since about 2003 or so, so I most likely missed that analysis. There is an in depth theory on gamefaqs.com. One interesting point about the mirrors they made is that Ryo and Lan Di basically have half of a map to a treasure, so they are stuck in an old "pirate movie cliché." Meaning that one will either have to kill the other or they will have to work together...
 

spud1897

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It's interesting and I'm sure on the old forums someone went into this in great depth. I'd sense it's both but remember in the Shenmue Online trailer and Project Berkley there's a major hint at Shenhuas magical ability.

I've recently come to the idea that Lan Di knows about the second mirror and is using Ryo as a pawn in his plan at this stage.
 
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There is also a theory that there are more stone mirrors besides the Dragon and the Phoenix. The writer used the room with the sacred animal keys as a point. He said that there could also be mirrors depicting the Tortoise, the White Tiger, etc
 
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There is also a theory that there are more stone mirrors besides the Dragon and the Phoenix. The writer used the room with the sacred animal keys as a point. He said that there could also be mirrors depicting the Tortoise, the White Tiger, etc

Yup i was also under the impression that there may infact be 4 mirrors, knowing how creative Yu Suzuki is it wouldn’t surprise me at all.
 

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The answer to whether there are two or four mirrors depends entirely on which "Phoenix" it is.

The four keys refer to the Four Symbols; the Azure Dragon of the East (Qinglong/Canglong, Seiryu), the Vermilion Bird of the South (Zhuque, Suzaku), the White Tiger of the West (Baihu, Byakko), and the Black Snake Tortoise of the North (Xuanwu, Genbu).

However, more typically the Dragon and Phoenix are used as a pair representing power sent from the heavens to the emperor and empress respectively.

533px-Twelve_Symbols_national_emblem_of_China.svg.png


In this instance, the Phoenix is in fact Fenghuang or Houou, which is an entirely separate beast from the Vermilion Bird of the South. I'm not entirely sure which is intended to be the case, but it certainly appears to be this one (which would imply only two mirrors).
 

24Nathan

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Two other things to add here: Yu has confirmed that Shenmue Online was never Canon to the series. Which means that while the story trailer we got in China Joy 2006 may not have been comprised of brand new, exclusive thematic material, it also may not have any effect whatsoe er on the future of the main story. Also, Yu has hinted that Zhu might twist the truth a bit to his/his friends' own advantage. It's interesting...he may have also told Ryo the truth and intentionally misled Master Chen. We just don't know.
 

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I always took the monster thing as a metaphor, that the mirrors will lead to money which will fund the Chi You Men's future pursuits of evil...
 
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Zhu might be one of the true leaders within the CYM and sending out conflicting information to screw with Ryo and Lan Di. He sends Iwao the letter late on purpose and under another guise, he tells Lan Di that Iwao only has one Mirror.
 
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Heresy, but I honestly kinda hope Chi You is real, and that it shows up at some point. Yes, supernatural stuff showing up out of nowhere at the end of a realistic story would be weird, but it depends on how it's done. If Chiyou is, say, just a corpse laying in a coffin that almost gets resurrected, it'd fit in mostly with Shenmue's tone. But if it was LITERALLY a giant monster dude rising from the grave to fistfight Ryo, that'd be stretching things just a bit.

But. On the other hand, the Mythological Chi You is an interesting figure and one that hasn't shown up in much non-Chinese media, despite being quite fearsome. It would be quite interesting to see a depiction of the character in a modernish setting. His final battle against the first Emperor lasted for TEN YEARS straight because he was able to use magic to summon storms and even cover the entire battlefield in mist, and the Emperor was only able to win because he invented the South-pointing Chariot, and summoned the Drought goddess Nuba to dispel his storms and lay waste to the battlefield.

A lot more interesting than just "a Dragon and Phoenix show up," as "promised" by Shenmue Online IMHO.

If Chi You were to ever show up, tho, I imagine Shenhua would be the one to defeat him, using her magic to sacrifice herself to destroy the monster for good, and ultimately for the safety of the entire world.
 
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Heresy, but I honestly kinda hope Chi You is real, and that it shows up at some point. Yes, supernatural stuff showing up out of nowhere at the end of a realistic story would be weird, but it depends on how it's done. If Chiyou is, say, just a corpse laying in a coffin that almost gets resurrected, it'd fit in mostly with Shenmue's tone. But if it was LITERALLY a giant monster dude rising from the grave to fistfight Ryo, that'd be stretching things just a bit.

But. On the other hand, the Mythological Chi You is an interesting figure and one that hasn't shown up in much non-Chinese media, despite being quite fearsome. It would be quite interesting to see a depiction of the character in a modernish setting. His final battle against the first Emperor lasted for TEN YEARS straight because he was able to use magic to summon storms and even cover the entire battlefield in mist, and the Emperor was only able to win because he invented the South-pointing Chariot, and summoned the Drought goddess Nuba to dispel his storms and lay waste to the battlefield.

A lot more interesting than just "a Dragon and Phoenix show up," as "promised" by Shenmue Online IMHO.

If Chi You were to ever show up, tho, I imagine Shenhua would be the one to defeat him, using her magic to sacrifice herself to destroy the monster for good, and ultimately for the safety of the entire world.
There was a weird theory that Sumning was possssed by an evil spirit, and Iwao killed him in self defense. Perhaps a shadow of Chi You remains, an abberation, it clings itself to the treasure and is attracted to those who are filled with hate and greed. Shenhua doesn't kill it per say, but helps put it to rest.
 
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There was a weird theory that Sumning was possssed by an evil spirit, and Iwao killed him in self defense. Perhaps a shadow of Chi You remains, an abberation, it clings itself to the treasure and is attracted to those who are filled with hate and greed. Shenhua doesn't kill it per say, but helps put it to rest.
Never thought about it like this, but it would be pretty cool if the mirrors have a “the one ring” effect on the people who possess them and would explain why Ryo has so far failed to listen to reason despite the obvious futility of his pursuit of vengeance. If this does end up being the case, it will be interesting to see if/how Ryo changes now that he’s no longer in possession of the mirror.
 
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Never thought about it like this, but it would be pretty cool if the mirrors have a “the one ring” effect on the people who possess them and would explain why Ryo has so far failed to listen to reason despite the obvious futility of his pursuit of vengeance. If this does end up being the case, it will be interesting to see if/how Ryo changes now that he’s no longer in possession of the mirror.
I don't think the Mirrors are bad, the dragon and phoenix are revered. I think somone may have been trying to corrupt their ultimate purpose. The imperial envoy, shown in several flashbacks, seems important. I think he may have been one of the CYM, a spy or leader, he interferred with the Mirrors' design, and instead of unlocking the path to the treasure as they're meant to, they will awaken some kind of calamity in the mountains that Yeh mentioned. This is what I suspect corrupted Sumning. Iwao may have promised to watch his friend's back and he feels tremendous guilt because he wasn't able to protect him from this darkness, and he struck back. "Keep your friends, those you love, close to you"
 
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I don't think the Mirrors are bad, the dragon and phoenix are revered. I think somone may have been trying to corrupt their ultimate purpose. The imperial envoy, shown in several flashbacks, seems important. I think he may have been one of the CYM, a spy or leader, he interferred with the Mirrors' design, and instead of unlocking the path to the treasure as they're meant to, they will awaken some kind of calamity in the mountains that Yeh mentioned. This is what I suspect corrupted Sumning. Iwao may have promised to watch his friend's back and he feels tremendous guilt because he wasn't able to protect him from this darkness, and he struck back. "Keep your friends, those you love, close to you"
I always assumed that either Chiyou’s spirit was split in half and then trapped inside the mirrors or that his spirit was locked inside Shenhua and the mirrors served as the key to releasing it. Either way, it would make sense for the mirrors to contain some sort of dark energy.
 
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I always assumed that either Chiyou’s spirit was split in half and then trapped inside the mirrors or that his spirit was locked inside Shenhua and the mirrors served as the key to releasing it. Either way, it would make sense for the mirrors to contain some sort of dark energy.
In the title screen for Shenmue 2, the Mirrors glow in an ethereal way. I wonder if the mirrors are connected to the Shenmue tree, like her parents dowsed the mirrors with the spirit of the tree, and Shenhua must prey to free the entities within.

A Phoenix (Symbolising Shenhua) shall descend, (She preys below the tree) its wings shall create a purple wind. (The leaves gather around her, the dark clouds make them appear a darker purple colour?)
 

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Well, I mean, the story of mythical creatures and two objects that depict said beings could be two completely different things 🤷‍♂️
 
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I think a theory I had a while ago was that the treasure is a deadly lost martial art used by Chi You. My thought was that Chi You wasn't literally a demon, but was known as a deadly and unstoppable martial artist. As his legend grew over the years his existence became kind of a "tall tale" ("He fought so deadly, it was like he was some sort of demon!" and so on). The style died with Chi You, and if someone were to resurrect his style, they'd be unstoppable as well.

To be honest, I haven't thought about any of this stuff for a lonnnnnnng time, so I'll likely be forgetting details of actual historical research that other users have done. I just felt that was a somewhat grounded theory, though we don't really know how deep the fantasy/magical aspects will go in the future, so maybe Chi You is actually a giant-ass dragon that breathes fire and eats babies.
 
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