The Story From Lan Di's Perspective

[orient]

I wouldn't read too much into Lan Di's reaction to Niao Sun's betrayal or into S3's ending at all since we know it was cut short by cutting Baisha and just in general it was very badly executed.

It probably is the way it is because YS Net ran out of money and time and Deep Silver had had enough of the delays.

Just because it was cut short doesn't mean it should be dismissed. It is canon, and the events of S3's ending will be contextualised in S4 (if and when it happens). I'm pretty sure Yu has already said S4 will cover a lot of story at the beginning, or something along those lines.

However, it doesn't make sense that Lan Di himself is resurrected. I think it creates more questions than it solves. How did he die? Does he know he was brought back? What does it have to do with Iwao? It also doesn't make sense Lan Di would think Iwao killed his father unless the CYM just lied to him but I find that kind of unsatisfactory.

I imagine he died as a baby, hence not knowing he's been resurrected. If the power of the mirrors killed Zhao, or he sacrificed himself or whatever, and the CYM found out Iwao had a mirror, why wouldn't they manipulate Lan Di and tell him Iwao killed his father and stole the mirror? And use him in their efforts to gather the mirrors?

 

[iknifaugood]

I wouldn't read too much into Lan Di's reaction to Niao Sun's betrayal or into S3's ending at all since we know it was cut short by cutting Baisha and just in general it was very badly executed.

No one likes to shit on S3 more than me but I highly doubt that the ending (Niao Sun gets the Phoenix Mirror, betrays Lan Di, all parties are headed for a showdown at the Cliff Temple) strays too far from the original plan. Even if it wasn't originally meant to be the ending.

We don't know if Lan Di is aware that Iwao had both mirrors. He could just as likely think Ryo got it from Yuanda Zhu or found it in Bailu village. But if he does know, I'm curious as to how he would feel knowing Iwao had both mirrors all along.

It works if Lan Di just thinks so little of Ryo that he doesn't even care to fight him at the end of S2 but imo it's more interesting if he knows more than Ryo and has an actual plan (maybe he needs Ryo to find Shenhua?). We know from the bad endings that LD will eventually find the Phoenix mirror if given enough time so if all there is to his plan/personality is "bad guy wants macguffin" then at that point Lan Di's entire character essentially boils down to what he wants with the mirrors (which is why it can't be just money).

I think they are after something more mystical with the hopes it will grant them immortality or supernatural power. If there is a Tian Di/overlord to the CYM it would be likely that he wants this power to himself and the 4 leaders should be aware of this.
So either:
1) they don't truly believe in the treasure
2) they think it's something they don't want/care about
3) They are secretly plotting to steal it for themselves
4) or are true believers to the cause
I think there is some interesting ways the last 2 could play out.

It's likely that if there is some kind of hierarchy that there could be a difference in what they think the treasure is/does. Maybe some are less believing in the supernatural element and just think it's money? Too little is known about the CYM to really speculate on their goals but it's safe to assume that Lan Di is aware that they are the "bad guys" so it's possible that he is merely using the CYM for their resources.

Huge missed opportunity to expand on the poem and its implications in Bailu. It would be cool to know if Iwao knew about the poem. Maybe he interpreted it as being about himself and Zhao? lots of possibilities that are going to go unexplored.

There is still a chance that the poem is significant with respect to Shenhua's past. I'm also curious to see how the anime deals with it.

Also worth noting that Zhao was considered extremely honourable and he was entrusted the mirrors by Yuan/family in Bailu. They must have trusted him immensely, I'm not sure the mirrors "corrupted" him like the one ring or the lust for treasure. There must be something else that happened that we aren't aware of yet.

Worth noting that Yuan says that Zhao had the mirrors for "years" before he died under mysterious circumstances and he died in Meng Cun, thus far not a place associated with the treasure. Also if the CYM knew enough to frame Iwao, what took them so long to find him? Surely they didn't need to wait until Lan Di was a grown man to hunt Iwao down for the mirror(s). Also also, why wouldn't they assume Iwao had both?

 

[iknifaugood]

I imagine he died as a baby, hence not knowing he's been resurrected.

This wouldn't line up given what we know of the timeline. Lan Di was born in 1955, Iwao was in China in the mid 60s and needs to be back in Japan by 1968 to make Ryo. Lan Di was likely around 12ish when his father died. We know that Zhao wanted to protect the mirrors from the CYM and was in possession of both mirrors for years (so likely before he met Iwao) so something drastic would have to happen for him to suddenly want to make use of them. Perhaps his son was sick and while they were in Meng Cun he died of his illness and in a last ditch effort to save him, Zhao uses the mirrors to bring him back? Iwao witnesses Zhao die after using the mirrors and takes them to Japan. Iwao doesn't realize that it worked, Lan Di (who according to this theory would've known Iwao) sees that his father is dead and the mirrors are gone and blames Iwao. The CYM offer revenge, similar to Ziming, and train Lan Di but they don't know where the mirrors are, maybe they tell Lan Di what the mirrors do. Lan Di assumes Iwao only has one since he thinks Iwao is an asshole and if he had both, he would surely have used them so LD's revenge is entirely his own. He blames Iwao. He knows Iwao has the mirror. The CYM are a means to an end for LD.

I think the story makes sense from that POV. Iwao knows someone will come for him, but not that it will be Lan Di. It makes sense that LD has the information that he has and it doesn't require him being lied to.

 

[iknifaugood]

Imo it's more dramatic, you fight with the 4 leaders, but the ultimate master mind is revealed, the 5th leader and it's someone we know, he's not just another head honcho, a phantom figure at the heart of the CYM. Now I imagine if there was going to be a secret identity, it'll be someone you underestimate, someone who looks weak like Zhu, they don't sit on a throne, but a wheel chair. If Tentei is the ultimate enemy, then you would think he would have retroactive influence on events in the previous games. I think Tentei being Zhu makes "more sense" than a new character, and potentially answers a few questions.

Ren says about Zhu "He used to be the big boss of Hong Kong, I heard he lost it all though".. yet Zhu has this elaborate network of agents, he seems pretty equipped for someone "who lost it all". Yeah.. Zhu has access to a very capable cell of agents, and spies. I guess Zhang leads one front of this cell, and the other front is Tentei.

If Lan Di turns on the CYM, there could be a flashback scene, where he explains to Ryo who Tentei is... in Kowloon, Lan Di arrives at the top to pick up Zhu. Lan Di could have landed on the building, he could defeated them all there and retrieved Zhu, but he nods at the CYM, and signals they should leave, Dou Niu says "This whole city will belong to me" but he becomes frustrated with Lan Di who is implied to have abandoned their deal, and he leaves without Zhu, why? Lan Di may have realised Zhu was a persona of Tentei, Zhu is standing with Ryo's friends at the time. Tentei could have been his mentor in the CYM, and played cruel games on Lan Di as a young man, in an attempt to corrupt him. He is thinking "I'm out of here, not another game.." Repeating myself.. perhaps Lan Di has own agenda to focus on, related to his father, and to contrast with Ryo following the footsteps of his father, and visiting the same places/people.

5 star corp maybe was a shadow company owned by the CYM, so Zhu could present an unsuspecting backstory for this persona, a front, and then he places himself in Ryo's parameter, (and perhaps also in Sunming's "his best friend") in some long manipulative game.

In the DLC for 3, I think it would be better in retrospective with this reveal, Zhang reintroduces himself "I heard the CYM are in this area, I came by this information by Zhu" that line is absolutely delicious if we know Zhu is the true leader. The guy trying to betray Zhang says "I won't be satisfied, I want to be like Zhu, I'm not like you (Zhang) I won't be satisfied unless I'm on top" ok that sounds like classic foreshadowing if Tentei is literally on top of the CYM and everything that is going on. But again Ren said Zhu "lost it all" something sounds sketchy and not adding up here. Then later Zhang says "this is my organisation's problem" he doesn't say who his organisation is, which is shady. I don't think they're the CYM per say, but I believe they're an extension. Then at the end of the DLC, Zhang says Zhu will give him a reward in Hong Kong next time he's in the area, Yu Suzuki or the writers could focus on new characters in further game if the series contintue (e.g. Ziming or 2 other leaders) it may have been cleaner to just end that plot there, but he gave the DLC an intersection into the further story, and I guess that's because Zhu still has a noticeable role to play in the series. He told Ryo a lot near the climax of II, but I believe his story might not be over yet.

Speculating further, the leaders of the organisation may be after different things.

Lan Di = Wants the treasures, he has 'sold his soul' to the CYM, like Xiuying described Ziming. He endured Tentei's training/tests, but he's stlll not a complete tool, and has his own code,"I'll allow you to die like a warrior" also in comparison to Sun who is just chaos and would rather set your base on fire. I think Lan Di has his own agenda, he wants the treasure, for the same reason his father became enticed by it.

Niao Sun = I think she's jealous of Lan Di and believes he was considered the favourite, acting leader of the CYM. "The CYM belong to me now" she wanted to become the favourite, and now she may want the treasure, to amass enough wealth, so she can burn the old organization down, and rebuild it her own image. This fits her old whole red phoenix motif.

Tentei/Zhu, wants to engineer a battle between Ryo and Lan Di, and begin an ethereal conflict involving Shehua's power, .. war representing Chi You. Doesn't really have a personal motive like Sun and Lan Di, he's top of the food chain and wants to screw everyone else over. The most evil of the evil, Palpatine-type.

While it's true that Zhu has his hand in driving much of the plot in the early story, and it's highly likely that he's unreliable, I just don't see the benefit to him being this mastermind beyond having a plot twist for its own sake. It doesn't really add anything to the story to have him secretly manipulating things behind the scenes, especially since he helped Iwao bring the mirrors to Japan. If his endgame is the mirrors then surely he could have taken them before Ryo was even born.

 

[Demon's Triangle]

While it's true that Zhu has his hand in driving much of the plot in the early story, and it's highly likely that he's unreliable, I just don't see the benefit to him being this mastermind beyond having a plot twist for its own sake. It doesn't really add anything to the story to have him secretly manipulating things behind the scenes, especially since he helped Iwao bring the mirrors to Japan. If his endgame is the mirrors then surely he could have taken them before Ryo was even born.

I don't think it would be a twist for the sake of it. I think it would provide an opening, for Lan Di's redemption arc, if he sees that he and Ryo, are being manipulated by the same man. I think Lan Di considers himself the hero of his own story, and that he wanted vengeance and justice for his father's death, whatever the cost, whoever he would have to team up with. If he sees that Ryo is being led/manipulated by the same man, using different aliases.. there's a weave in place, for the story to gradually transition into the next arc. Like I said I don't think Tentei is just after the mirrors treasure, he's playing the long game, placing the pieces, and I wouldn't be surprised if he had Shenhua's parents murdered, but she's another potential tool.

I'm pretty confident Lan Di will find some redemption, I guess he will show Ryo how to use Iwao's 'mystery scroll', with the tiger on it, Lan Di/Sunming were masters of tiger swallow, and they will have a peaceful spar by the end of the series, like their fathers. I think that would be thematic.

 

[darksniper]

Good speculations here guys. I don't have anything deep to add, but I do think that Lan Di is somehow going to be redeemed by the end of the series. On those VFRPG cards, I think the person that Ryo is carrying is either one of two people, Lan Di or Ren. One of those two or maybe even both aren't making it to the end of Shenmue alive.

One things for sure, Shenmue IV will be a complete letdown if it doesn't get into the backstory of Lan Di. After the end of III, his arc is the one I'm most interested in.

 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Good speculations here guys. I don't have anything deep to add, but I do think that Lan Di is somehow going to be redeemed by the end of the series. On those VFRPG cards, I think the person that Ryo is carrying is either one of two people, Lan Di or Ren. One of those two or maybe even both aren't making it to the end of Shenmue alive.

One things for sure, Shenmue IV will be a complete letdown if it doesn't get into the backstory of Lan Di. After the end of III, his arc is the one I'm most interested in.

It's Ren.

Hence why he wears Ren's headband, after that card.

 

[Demon's Triangle]

Good speculations here guys. I don't have anything deep to add, but I do think that Lan Di is somehow going to be redeemed by the end of the series. On those VFRPG cards, I think the person that Ryo is carrying is either one of two people, Lan Di or Ren. One of those two or maybe even both aren't making it to the end of Shenmue alive.

One things for sure, Shenmue IV will be a complete letdown if it doesn't get into the backstory of Lan Di. After the end of III, his arc is the one I'm most interested in.

The last act of 3 has changed the status quo. The other CYM may believe Lan Di died in the fire, and perhaps it sets the stage for some kind of brief, uneasy alliance, between Lan Di whose force had been divided, and they battle against Niao Sun. During this time, we learn more about him.

 

[iknifaugood]

One things for sure, Shenmue IV will be a complete letdown if it doesn't get into the backstory of Lan Di. After the end of III, his arc is the one I'm most interested in.

I find it interesting that many people assume that we're going to learn a lot more about Lan Di. I don't know if that's necessarily the case. Lan Di could simply be defined by his relationship to the mirrors, it really depends on what kind of story Shenmue is shaping into. For example, in the Avengers movies, we don't learn a ton about Thanos, yet he's considered a (relatively) great villain simply because he is defined by his relationship to the infinity gauntlet. Thanos would be nothing without the snap and perhaps something similar is in store for Lan Di to do something with the mirrors?

What I think we can all agree on is that it can't be neither, which is to say Lan Di can't lack a more complete backstory and fail to achieve anything else in the story. I think that would render him a pretty impotent villain.

 

[Demon's Triangle]

I find it interesting that many people assume that we're going to learn a lot more about Lan Di. I don't know if that's necessarily the case. Lan Di could simply be defined by his relationship to the mirrors, it really depends on what kind of story Shenmue is shaping into. For example, in the Avengers movies, we don't learn a ton about Thanos, yet he's considered a (relatively) great villain simply because he is defined by his relationship to the infinity gauntlet. Thanos would be nothing without the snap and perhaps something similar is in store for Lan Di to do something with the mirrors?

What I think we can all agree on is that it can't be neither, which is to say Lan Di can't lack a more complete backstory and fail to achieve anything else in the story. I think that would render him a pretty impotent villain.

I guess Lan Di would be more like Darth Vader and he's being used by someone else, "he was raised by the CYM." That suggests to me at least, that someone higher up has been moulding him into a tool.