Vegenance

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Sep 3, 2018
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Shenmue
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Strider (2014)
I thought this query would be an interesting discussion. I seriously doubt this will ever happen, but what would happen if Yu Suzuki subverts our expectations and Ryo finds a way to enact his revenge against Longsun Zhao and kill him. What do you think would happen next? How would you feel about the series and the story as a whole? Once again, I seriously doubt this will ever happen but I thought it would be good food for thought. Thank you very much for reading.
 
Interesting thread, i always think about this, i always think about what will happen about the revenge part, if Ryo will kill Longsun Zhao or not.

I agree with you, i doubt this will ever happen. In my opinion in one part of the story Ryo will go to Meng Cun, the place where something happened between Iwao Hazuki and Sunming Zhao.

There Ryo will learn the truth about what happened, maybe Longsun Zhao will be with him and he will learn the truth aswell, after that i think they will understand each other and even join forces to destroy The Chi You Men, maybe after learning the truth Longsun Zhao will want revenge against The Chi You Men, it is possible.

I think The Chi You Men twisted with his mind since he was a little kid, we learned in Shenmue III that Longsun Zhao was raised by The Chi You Men after his father died so it is possible.


To me the real villan is not Longsun Zhao, the real mastermind behind all of this is probably Tentei or someone else, this story is not just about Ryo wanting to kill Longsun Zhao, to me the big picture will be Ryo destroying The Chi You Men and saving the world, something like this.

I think will be interesting to see this but i hope we can at least see Ryo winning a fight against Longsun Zhao, not a fight to death but see Ryo finally winning will be beautiful to see.

Everytime i see this photo of Iwao with Sunming Zhao i think that this is what will happen, that Ryo and Longsun Zhao will understand each other, friendship is one of the themes in Shenmue. It is possible and i already saw similar things happening in Anime, games and other media.


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In my opinion, Vengeance/Revenge is the real enemy of all Shenmue saga. In words of Shenhua, "is the power that can destroy him." If Ryo would kill Lan di, it would be a bad ending where he becomes the next chi you men leader or even chiyou himself. I think that chiyou will feed of anger. Revenge is the real enemy that Ryo must defeat.
 
In my opinion, Vengeance/Revenge is the real enemy of all Shenmue saga. In words of Shenhua, "is the power that can destroy him." If Ryo would kill Lan di, it would be a bad ending where he becomes the next chi you men leader or even chiyou himself. I think that chiyou will feed of anger. Revenge is the real enemy that Ryo must defeat.

I agree with everything. Revenge is the real enemy that Ryo must defeat, remember what Xiuying said to Ryo in Shenmue II...

"You still don't understand. Martial arts are used to protect people's lives. If you use your fists otherwise, you will walk on the path of evil, too!"

Something will happen and Ryo will remember Xiuying's words and Iwao's words, and this will be the moment where we will see a lot of character development in Ryo.

Revenge is the enemy and Ryo will win this battle. In my opinion Ryo and Longsun Zhao will learn the truth about what happened in Meng Cun, i think Longsun Zhao will want revenge against The Chi You Men, they will understand each other and they will join forces to destroy The Chi You Men.
 
I agree with everything. Revenge is the real enemy that Ryo must defeat, remember what Xiuying said to Ryo in Shenmue II...

"You still don't understand. Martial arts are used to protect people's lives. If you use your fists otherwise, you will walk on the path of evil, too!"

Something will happen and Ryo will remember Xiuying's words and Iwao's words, and this will be the moment where we will see a lot of character development in Ryo.

Revenge is the enemy and Ryo will win this battle. In my opinion Ryo and Longsun Zhao will learn the truth about what happened in Meng Cun, i think Longsun Zhao will want revenge against The Chi You Men, they will understand each other and they will join forces to destroy The Chi You Men.
Yes, me too, I agree with all you say, the only thing perhaps, is that I still see Lan-di as the final boss, guy is just too strong, I see difficult that there is anyone more strong that him xD, and I don't see him turning good too. Besides are the paralelism with Shen-hua as Lan-di as the black dragon. My guess is that Ren will die protecting Ryo of Lan-di (One can see how in Shenmue 3 he cares a little for him and something) and that must ignite more Ryo revenge, but well, only time will tell. Perhaps Shenmue would have to be a multi-route/choose your ending thing, and that way we all will be happy xD. (It's a joke) ;)
 
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Yes, me too, I agree with all you say, the only thing perhaps, is that I still see Lan-di as the final boss, guy is just too strong, I see difficult that there is anyone more strong that him xD, and I don't see him turning good too. Besides are the paralelism with Shen-hua as Lan-di as the black dragon. My guess is that Ren will die protecting Ryo of Lan-di (One can see how in Shenmue 3 he cares a little for him and something) and that must ignite more Ryo revenge, but well, only time will tell. Perhaps Shenmue would have to be a multi-route/choose your ending thing, and that way we all will be happy xD. (It's a joke) ;)
If Tentei is a persona of Yuanda Zhu, he's sitting in a wheel chair or throne anyway, and is too old to fight. I guess he would enjoy watching Ryo kill Lan Di ala Palpatine in ROTJ. Perhaps in a bad future ending, Ryo could be one of the 4 leaders, the White Tiger, if he truly gives in to the hate of Chi You and he joins them. (This may be forshadowed by the white tiger key being in Iwao's uniform from II)
 
I think another angle could be if Ryo achieves his vengeance, he will be left with an empty and/or horrid feeling. His sense of purpose that drove him this far is gone and was not as fulfilling as he thought it would be. It is then a higher purpose reveals itself that reinvigorates his spirit to atone for his sins. Again, I do not think this is what Suzuki has in mind as he has made it abundantly clear that his quest for revenge will subside.
 
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I think another angle could be if Ryo achieves his vengeance, he will be left with an empty and/or horrid feeling. His sense of purpose that drove him this far was gone and was not as fulfilling as he thought it would. It is then a higher purpose reveals itself that reinvigorates his spirit to atone for his sins. Again, I do not think this is what Suzuki has in mind as he has made it abundantly clear that his quest for revenge will subside.
With what you said i imagine the player having to choose...
Option 1 Kill Lan Di
Option 2 Win the fight and forget about revenge

Depending on the option the game can have a different route and ending, some games have different endings, depending on the game i like when this happen, i don't think it will be the case for Shenmue but i'm just imagining.


he will be left with an empty and/or horrid feeling. His sense of purpose that drove him this far was gone and was not as fulfilling as he thought it would. It is then a higher purpose reveals itself that reinvigorates his spirit to atone for his sins.

I agree, is possible this happening if he kills Longsun Zhao, he will probably regret about it, but i really feel that he will forget about revenge, destroy The Chi You Men, after that maybe he will come back to Japan to take care of the Dojo and to be more closer to his friends and loved ones.

He will take care of the Dojo and will become a Kung Fu Teacher, maybe Nozomi will come back to Japan aswell, maybe she will be together with Ryo in the ending, in my opinion if this happen will be a beautiful ending to this wonderful saga.
 
There’s no way Ryo will kill Lan Di, so it’s difficult to speculate how exactly I’d feel if it did happen. I mean, the whole story of Shenmue is centered around the vicious cycle of revenge and how an eye for an eye leaves the world blind, so for Ryo to fail to realize that after being told by pretty much everybody that he meets would effectively render the whole story pointless and cheapen any growth that Ryo makes as both a martial artist and a person.

That said, it would open up the door for a sequel in years to come, in which Lan Di junior seeks out and attempts to kill Ryo in order to avenge his father.
 
That said, it would open up the door for a sequel in years to come, in which Lan Di junior seeks out and attempts to kill Ryo in order to avenge his father.
Yeurgh! I hope not, reeks of TLOU2.

GDC 2014 confirmed Akira (Ryo) will defeat Lan Di in a final battle. So we will definitely defeat him, but how that is handled is a mystery.

Though I agree with @tomboz that Ryo shouldn't kill Lan Di for revenge which would make the entire story pointless. Maybe Ryo merely defeats him to prove he is now the better fighter.
 
Yeurgh! I hope not, reeks of TLOU2.

GDC 2014 confirmed Akira (Ryo) will defeat Lan Di in a final battle. So we will definitely defeat him, but how that is handled is a mystery.

Though I agree with @tomboz that Ryo shouldn't kill Lan Di for revenge which would make the entire story pointless. Maybe Ryo merely defeats him to prove he is now the better fighter.
For Ryo’s decision to turn his back on revenge to really mean anything, he needs to reach a level where he could theoretically obtain it, so I hope this is how it plays out. I always envisaged the final showdown ending with Zhu/Tentei telling Ryo to finish Lan Di and then Ryo having some immense journey-before-his-eyes-style flashback with people like Xiuying telling him how futile revenge is before offering Lan Di his hand to help him up. The pair would then team up to stop Zhu and the rest of the CYM and prevent the mirrors from being used or something like that.
 
With what you said i imagine the player having to choose...
Option 1 Kill Lan Di
Option 2 Win the fight and forget about revenge

Depending on the option the game can have a different route and ending, some games have different endings, depending on the game i like when this happen, i don't think it will be the case for Shenmue but i'm just imagining.



I agree, is possible this happening if he kills Longsun Zhao, he will probably regret about it, but i really feel that he will forget about revenge, destroy The Chi You Men, after that maybe he will come back to Japan to take care of the Dojo and to be more closer to his friends and loved ones.


He will take care of the Dojo and will become a Kung Fu Teacher, maybe Nozomi will come back to Japan aswell, maybe she will be together with Ryo in the ending, in my opinion if this happen will be a beautiful ending to this wonderful saga.
I don't see Ryo and Nazomi together. I think she's meant to be his first love, or a lost flame from days begone, and Shenhua will be his true love.

The two may meet on the Verdant Bridge when the journey is over, and Ryo has made his wish under the north star, to reunite with Shenhua. But he cannot make the wish until his mind is clear, his will is pure, and when he has left his vengeance and hate behind.
 
I don't see Ryo and Nazomi together. I think she's meant to be his first love, or a lost flame from days begone, and Shenhua will be his true love.

The two may meet on the Verdant Bridge when the journey is over, and Ryo has made his wish under the north star, to reunite with Shenhua. But he cannot make the wish until his mind is clear, his will is pure, and when he has left his vengeance and hate behind.

In the end Ryo will come back to Japan? he will stay in China or will he go somewhere else? i always think about what will happen about this in the ending of the story.

If he decides to go back to Japan to take care of the Dojo and stay closer to his friends and loved ones then it's possible that Ryo will see Nozomi again, if he doesn't go back to Japan Ryo will probably never see Nozomi again in the story.

It is possible that maybe Ryo will be together with Shenhua in the ending, in Shenmue III Shenhua said "I want to see what Japan looks like" something like this so maybe Shenhua will go to Japan with Ryo, or maybe Ryo will stay alone in the end, only time will tell.
 
There’s no way Ryo will kill Lan Di, so it’s difficult to speculate how exactly I’d feel if it did happen. I mean, the whole story of Shenmue is centered around the vicious cycle of revenge and how an eye for an eye leaves the world blind, so for Ryo to fail to realize that after being told by pretty much everybody that he meets would effectively render the whole story pointless and cheapen any growth that Ryo makes as both a martial artist and a person.

That said, it would open up the door for a sequel in years to come, in which Lan Di junior seeks out and attempts to kill Ryo to avenge his father.
Well, the question I am proposing here is not whether or not Ryo is capable of murdering Longsun Zhao, I am asking how would you feel if the story did go down that route. Besides, there are a couple of ways I can think of in which Ryo kills him. Especially when you consider that Shenmue is supposed to be a role-playing game version of Virtua Fighter.

First, perhaps Ryo finds and trains in some sort of anti-Koen-ken style that was long forgotten via texts or an instructor. In the second scenario, since Longsun Zhao is essentially Lau-chan in this universe, perhaps he is also slowly dying of a terminal illness and wanted revenge for his father before he dies. Or finally, Ryo just decides to grab a .45 and deal with him that way.

I agree with what @Revan said as it would contradict the themes of what Shenmue is trying to convey. However, that is why I added in that scenario where Ryo feels empty and despondent after killing Lan-Di. To nail home the lesson of the futility of revenge and then spend the rest of the story trying to atone for his sins. After all, sometimes the only way one learns a lesson is the hard way or experiencing it first-hand.
 
Well, the question I am proposing here is not whether or not Ryo is capable of murdering Longsun Zhao, I am asking how would you feel if the story did go down that route. Besides, there are a couple of ways I can think of in which Ryo kills him. Especially when you consider that Shenmue is supposed to be a role-playing game version of Virtua Fighter.

First, perhaps Ryo finds and trains in some sort of anti-Koen-ken style that was long forgotten via texts or an instructor. In the second scenario, since Longsun Zhao is essentially Lau-chan in this universe, perhaps he is also slowly dying of a terminal illness and wanted revenge for his father before he dies. Or finally, Ryo just decides to grab a .45 and deal with him that way.

I agree with what @Revan said as it would contradict the themes of what Shenmue is trying to convey. However, that is why I added in that scenario where Ryo feels empty and despondent after killing Lan-Di. To nail home the lesson of the futility of revenge and then spend the rest of the story trying to atone for his sins. After all, sometimes the only way one learns a lesson is the hard way or experiencing it first-hand.

It is a interesting route to imagine, i agree that sometimes the only way one learns a lesson is the hard way or experiencing it first hand, if the story go this way it will not ruin Shenmue to me because i think in the end the message/lesson would be the same that revenge is wrong, not the right path to go, but i really think the story will not go this route, for Shenmue i prefer the route where he will forget about revenge, but it is interesting to imagine all the possibilities.
 
In the end Ryo will come back to Japan? he will stay in China or will he go somewhere else? i always think about what will happen about this in the ending of the story.

If he decides to go back to Japan to take care of the Dojo and stay closer to his friends and loved ones then it's possible that Ryo will see Nozomi again, if he doesn't go back to Japan Ryo will probably never see Nozomi again in the story.

It is possible that maybe Ryo will be together with Shenhua in the ending, in Shenmue III Shenhua said "I want to see what Japan looks like" something like this so maybe Shenhua will go to Japan with Ryo, or maybe Ryo will stay alone in the end, only time will tell.

Returning to Japan would be great. Ryo's final battle with Lan Di, where it all began, in the dojo, and Lan Di faces the specter of the man he killed, slowly accepting he was mislead by Tentei, and killed the wrong man.. all that could be powerful. A bit like returning to Shadow Moses in MGS4, or The Battle of Kaer Morhen in Witcher 3. Ryo gathers his friends in a last stand against Lan Di.

I do think the very last act or epilogue, will be set in China though and Ryo will eventually find a new home in Bailu Village. This may be foreshadowed in 3 that Ryo compares Bailu Village to his home, that he could live there.
 
I also doubt that is going to happen. At least to me the purpose of the journey from Ryo is to become a better person and to mature as a martial artist.

The Ryo we know so far is not a killer. There were some suble hints in 2 that proves that. he refused to buy a sword when he had the chance at the weapon store and he also refused to kill the chick with cowboy hat during the illegal fight in Kowloon

Unless something happens to Ryo in part 4 that transforms him into a different person it is hard for to imagine that Ryo is going to end the life of Lan Di. At least in cold blood.. An accidental death of him at the final fight like falling down from a cliff or a high building would be not impossible but I also think that is unlikely.
 
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I also doubt that is going to happen. At least to me the purpose of the journey from Ryo is to become a better person and to mature as a martial artist.

The Ryo we know so far is not a killer. There were some suble hints in 2 that proves that. he refused to buy a sword when he had the chance at the weapon store and he also refused to kill the chick with cowboy hat during the illegal fight in Kowloon

Unless something happens to Ryo in part 4 that transforms him into a different person it is hard for to imagine that Ryo is going to end the life of Lan Di. At least in cold blood.. An accidental death of him at the final fight like falling down from a cliff or a high building would be not impossible but I also think that is unlikely.
Ryo may have had mercy on Chunyan because she was a woman, and he has different standards, like when he can't accept Xiuying is the master who beat him. Back in the day I thought Ryo killed Chai (Dou Niu's fate is ambigious too) when he knocked him in the water, he wasn't holding back and could have killed him.
 
Ryo may have had mercy on Chunyan because she was a woman, and he has different standards, like when he can't accept Xiuying as the master who beat him. Back in the day, I thought Ryo killed Chai (Dou Niu's fate is ambiguous too) when he knocked him in the water, he wasn't holding back and could have killed him.
Seeing as how Ryo is capable of hitting women in self-defense, I never thought he spared Chunyan because of gender, I thought he spared her because he did not have any strong convictions against her. If Longsun Zhao was a woman, I do not think his desire for vengeance would be any different and would not hesitate to kill her.
 
Seeing as how Ryo is capable of hitting women in self-defense, I never thought he spared Chunyan because of gender, I thought he spared her because he did not have any strong convictions against her. If Longsun Zhao was a woman, I do not think his desire for vengeance would be any different and would not hesitate to kill her.
I agree, i never thought he spared Chunyan because of gender, Ryo did not have anything against her, this is why he spared her in my opinion, and Ryo is not a character that wants to kill everyone. About Chai, he really have things against Chai, Chai tried to steal the Phoenix Mirror, he threatened to harm Nozomi and much more, Ryo doesn't care about Chai.

About Xiuying, at first Ryo said he would not fight with a woman, something like that, after Xiuying won Ryo started to respect her in my opinion, Ryo learned a lot of things with Xiuying. in Shenmue III in one of the phone calls with Guizhang he even said she is really strong.


If Longsun Zhao was a woman, I do not think his desire for vengeance would be any different and would not hesitate to kill her.

I agree, i think his desire for revenge would be the same if Longsun Zhao was a woman. Let's imagine for a moment that Niao Sun killed Iwao, i think the story would be the same about Ryo wanting revenge and going after her.
 
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