Were you happier with no Shenmue III? Or do you prefer living in a post-Shenmue III world?

And how does S3 tell this story? Ryo wants to get revenge on Lan Di, gets his ass kicked by Lan Di, learns that Lan Di may have a more sympathetic past, and ends the game vowing revenge on Lan Di. The idea that nothing was meant to change and that Shenmue is this recurring formula of Ryo going to random Chinese villages and beating up their gangs while the CYM narrowly escape is not at all what the series presented itself as. At least not to me.
Shenmue 3 was perhaps more about training and Ryo’s growth as a martial artist than any other Shenmue game to date. The game begins by showing the player that in spite of his growth throughout the first few games, Ryo still has a lot to learn as a martial artist and this encourages the player to train. It ending the way it does further emphasizes this point.

Mastery of an art does not come easily and defeating some thugs and training for a few hours a day over the course of a month isn’t enough to achieve the level of mastery that Ryo needs to achieve his goal. His persistence in spite of his own shortcomings demonstrates the strength of his desire for revenge and to an extent, shows us that he remains reckless even after those who’ve trained him in the past have tried to make him see the foolishness of blindly following the path that his lust for revenge is taking him down.

Whilst I had my fair share of issues with the storytelling and character development in Shenmue 3, I have very few when it comes to Ryo’s character arc and, as the protagonist of the story, I see his as the most important.

Judging from your subsequent comments on this topic it seems like you're coming at it from the POV that this is what we should have expected, so it makes sense. The way Shenhua described Bailu Village in S2 did not lead me to believe there would be an arcade and a thriving economy with a $2000 bottle of wine for sale but to each his own.
Thriving economy? If by this you mean they have shops and currency, then yes. What exactly were you expecting? The game is set in the late 80’s and so to see currency, games and alcohol shouldn’t come as a big surprise.

Could the village have been a dozen people and a bunch of mud huts? Sure, although this wouldn’t have been representative of either the era nor the location. Furthermore, you complain about Yu and his team not making changes to make the game appeal to a wider audience, but do you think a smaller Bailu village with no side activities would have achieved this goal?

What in S3 led you to the conclusion that someone is pulling Lan Di's strings? What led you to believe that there are warring factions of the CYM? Niao Sun (if that is her name) outright claims that she controls the CYM and she has the Phoenix Mirror; all signs point to Lan Di being on his own to me. No, concept art from 20 years ago about the 4 leaders doesn't mean that they were present or even hinted at in S3.

In terms of intrigue for the sequel? Most of that is stuff that's still been set up from the previous 2 entries. Want proof? Where are all the theory threads about all the cool plot developments in S3?
Hmm. Perhaps it was one of the four leaders trying and failing to burn one of the other leaders alive during the game’s climax. Unless you’re expecting Lan Di to just role over and not respond to Niao Sun’s treason, I think it’s fairly safe to assume there will be some form of internal conflict within the Chi You Men moving forwards. Either way, I’m intrigued to find out.

That Lan Di was taken and raised by the Chi You Men suggests to me that someone (most likely the main leader of the organization) is manipulating Lan Di. If this is true, it opens the door to many possibilities, which again, creates intrigue.

Whether or not plot threads began in earlier games is irrelevant to your argument that players wouldn’t be intrigued about the future of the series after playing through the third game. We still need answers to a lot of questions and whether or not people enjoyed the third game doesn’t change the fact that these questions remain unanswered.

That's my argument, though. Reviews have been claiming that the game is basically a 20 year old DC game for fans of the series only and awarding it 6-7/10 as a sort of backhanded compliment at best. RE2 used to be fixed camera but they updated it for the remake, FF7 used to be turn based but they updated it for the remake. You think those fans weren't upset? Who cares? They're appealing to a wider, different audience, 20 years later.
If this is your argument, I’m glad that you had nothing to do with the game’s development. Intentionally making changes that you know will likely piss off the fan base (who, remember, are effectively paying for development of the game) in order to court an audience who have taken pleasure in mocking your work is a terrible idea.

That you criticize Yu for making minor changes to his vision to please the fans but then go ahead and suggest that he tears up his plans completely to try to attract a wider audience is incredibly hypocritical.

I think you might be confusing what I was talking about or I just didn't articulate it properly. My point was that after 20 years, S3 needed to put its best foot forward which (imo) is not having money grinding quests and a combat system that was this compromised, considering it was Shenmue's signature gameplay feature. I wasn't trying to conflate the two.
I might be paraphrasing a little as I can’t be bothered to go back and find your original quote, but it read something along the lines of ‘Yu shouldn’t have focused on adding a story beat that required you to buy whine while minimizing the combat.’, which to me suggests that you see this as a one or the other situation. As per my previous responses, removing the need to grind would not have lead to more resources to improve the combat system.

I think that being grateful and allowing them to dictate the game design are two completely different things. I understand why he did what he did, I can even respect him for it, I simply think it was the wrong choice. Fans don't know what they want, you have to show them.
More nonsense. Fan’s didn’t dictate anything. Yu made a game that he thought fans would like. Whether or not he succeeded is debatable, but to suggests that fans don’t know what they want is a ridiculous suggestion. I know from our discussions that you wanted a more in depth fighting system and a more expansive story, for example.

By making a better game. I know that sounds dickish but that's just the way I see it; I don't think S3 is a very good game and imo he did change the series fundamentally for the worse. If S3 had S1 and 2's mechanics (no stamina, better combat, normal gambling etc.) and everything else was the same, that alone would make it a better game.
I agree with you here, but what you describe is a better Shenmue game without any drastic changes to the formula and this is what I’d like to see the team aiming for in future Shenmue games.
 
That Lan Di was taken and raised by the Chi You Men suggests to me that someone (most likely the main leader of the organization) is manipulating Lan Di. If this is true, it opens the door to many possibilities, which again, creates intrigue.
I've somewhat convinced myself at this point that Tentei(?)* provided the impetus for Sunming's death, took Lan Di in afterward, and blamed it on Iwao. Then, Nagoshi 'lifted' the idea in order to use it for Kiryu's backstory.

*EDIT: Oh! Of course! "Tentei"! Just like Ran Tei, and how Niao Sun is the "En Tei."
 
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I've somewhat convinced myself at this point that Tentei(?) (EDIT: Oh! Of course! "Tentei"! Just like Ran Tei, and how Niao Sun is the "En Tei.") provided the impetus for Sunming's death, took Lan Di in afterward, and blamed it on Iwao. Then, Nagoshi 'lifted' the idea in order to use it for Kiryu's backstory.
Personally, I think that Sunming is still alive somewhere and that Iwao and Sunming came up with a plan to stage Sunming’s death after (wrongly) believing that Lan Di had been killed by the Chi You Men. “It can’t be. You...”.

Regardless, I’m intrigued to find out which of us (if either) is right!
 
Personally, I think that Sunming is still alive somewhere and that Iwao and Sunming came up with a plan to stage Sunming’s death after (wrongly) believing that Lan Di had been killed by the Chi You Men. “It can’t be. You...”.

Regardless, I’m intrigued to find out which of us (if either) is right!

Is Sunming Zhao is revealed to be alive, it would be the biggest mindf*ck in video game history.
 
Happier. Shenmue 3 killed all of my hype and love for the franchise so now I'm no longer waiting everyday for anything in hopes that it moves forward. Loved Shenmue 1 and 2 so much and waiting for a follow up to do justice to the story and characters was agony. Shenmue 3 happened and now I no longer care because Yu failed miserable lol.
 
Happier. Shenmue 3 killed all of my hype and love for the franchise so now I'm no longer waiting everyday for anything in hopes that it moves forward. Loved Shenmue 1 and 2 so much and waiting for a follow up to do justice to the story and characters was agony. Shenmue 3 happened and now I no longer care because Yu failed miserable lol.
Little bit extreme don't you think.

From a story perspective I'd agree, it's not hard to argue but (and certainly in Bailu) he delivered a true Shenmue game IMO.
 
Shenmue 3 was perhaps more about training and Ryo’s growth as a martial artist than any other Shenmue game to date.
Look, you seem to be pretty satisfied with the game and I'm not trying to convince you to dislike it, but this has come up a lot and it's simply not true. Shenmue 3 is not about Ryo training. Ryo needs to learn two bizarrely similar moves to defeat two bizarrely similar opponents who he is otherwise perfectly capable of taking in a fight, which runs counter to how martial arts has been portrayed in the series thus far as well as how it works in real life. That both of these quests require Ryo to defeat certain members at the dojo doesn't make the story any more about Ryo training than it makes it about Ryo having to earn money and learning the value of a hard day's work (because, lest we forget, he also needs to earn money as part of those quests). Shenmue 2 saw Xiuying take Ryo under her wing and actually train him for days when his only opponent was Lan Di; Ryo wouldn't have even bothered to learn a move in Bailu Village if the Mongolian wasn't there. I'm sorry but that is not a story "about" training. The only reason you're giving the game so much credit in this regard is because you know that's what the story should be about at this point.

The game begins by showing the player that in spite of his growth throughout the first few games, Ryo still has a lot to learn as a martial artist and this encourages the player to train. It ending the way it does further emphasizes this point.
How? Because Ryo immediately wants a rematch that he is (presumably) going to lose again?

Mastery of an art does not come easily and defeating some thugs and training for a few hours a day over the course of a month isn’t enough to achieve the level of mastery that Ryo needs to achieve his goal. His persistence in spite of his own shortcomings demonstrates the strength of his desire for revenge and to an extent, shows us that he remains reckless even after those who’ve trained him in the past have tried to make him see the foolishness of blindly following the path that his lust for revenge is taking him down.

Whilst I had my fair share of issues with the storytelling and character development in Shenmue 3, I have very few when it comes to Ryo’s character arc and, as the protagonist of the story, I see his as the most important.
I didn't find any of this compelling. When I heard the inner monologues, I was incredibly confused. Why does Ryo think Lan Di would run? Does he seriously think he's going to beat him? Ryo just came across as dumb, rather than overconfident or blinded by revenge, to me. Furthermore, how much more time do you think the Shenmue story is going to take place over? Suzuki said 4-5 games total; that doesn't leave a ton of time for Ryo to up his game and he's presumably pretty close to the Cliff Temple for round 2.

Thriving economy? If by this you mean they have shops and currency, then yes. What exactly were you expecting? The game is set in the late 80’s and so to see currency, games and alcohol shouldn’t come as a big surprise.
I was expecting what Shenhua described in S2, when she ventured on a 2 day journey for supplies-- so at the very least, not a Kwik-E-Mart. Also, Bailu Village is a fictional martial arts village where fictional stone is carved into magic mirrors; it can be almost anything, but most of all I was expecting it to feel new and different.

Furthermore, you complain about Yu and his team not making changes to make the game appeal to a wider audience, but do you think a smaller Bailu village with no side activities would have achieved this goal?
Bailu Village isn't a great place to start to be sure, but surely more information on why these people recite a poem about Ryo and Shenhua's destined meeting would've gone a long way toward making the story feel bigger and learning more about Ryo's dad would've gone a long way toward catching new players up on the story. I'm not advocating for no side activities, just more good stuff.

Hmm. Perhaps it was one of the four leaders trying and failing to burn one of the other leaders alive during the game’s climax. Unless you’re expecting Lan Di to just role over and not respond to Niao Sun’s treason, I think it’s fairly safe to assume there will be some form of internal conflict within the Chi You Men moving forwards. Either way, I’m intrigued to find out.
Lan Di having one mirror and Niao Sun having the other is indeed cool, but I wish I knew what either of them wanted it for (or what Niao Sun's name is). I'm also confused about what's at the Cliff Temple; it's where the mirrors used to be stored but is it also where the treasure is?

The four leaders being absent from S3 leads me to believe that the concept may have been cut, or at least that option is open if Suzuki needs to wrap it up in 4.

That Lan Di was taken and raised by the Chi You Men suggests to me that someone (most likely the main leader of the organization) is manipulating Lan Di. If this is true, it opens the door to many possibilities, which again, creates intrigue.
I was under the impression that whoever raised him had either died or perhaps Lan Di killed him since, again, Niao Sun declares herself leader of the CYM after killing only Lan Di. I guess we'll have to wait and see if/when S4 comes out.

Whether or not plot threads began in earlier games is irrelevant to your argument that players wouldn’t be intrigued about the future of the series after playing through the third game. We still need answers to a lot of questions and whether or not people enjoyed the third game doesn’t change the fact that these questions remain unanswered.
I didn't say they wouldn't be interested after playing the third game, just that S3 didn't add much to set it up. I don't like S3 and I still want to play S4, so I'm not sure where you're getting this.

Intentionally making changes that you know will likely piss off the fan base (who, remember, are effectively paying for development of the game) in order to court an audience who have taken pleasure in mocking your work is a terrible idea.
You're right, the RE2 and FF7 remakes are famously seen as worse than the originals for making improvements. Again, I'm not of the mind that the gaming media and wider audiences were always going to make fun of S3; S3 opens itself up to being made fun of by doing a lot of stupid things that I would rather it didn't do. Apart from this forum, I'm the easiest lay for Shenmue: S3 could be exactly the same but if the story was better I probably would've loved it, but that doesn't mean that I can't see the forest for the trees. I want the series to be successful so that the series can continue, and that means expanding the audience-- that doesn't mean making a game the fans will hate (though, again, plenty of fans do, in fact, hate S3) but it also doesn't mean making a game that panders exclusively to them either.

To circle all the way back to the topic of this thread (and one in which you and I agree, I think): if S3 came out and we don't get S4 because of its failure, then I would rather the series ended with S2.

That you criticize Yu for making minor changes to his vision to please the fans but then go ahead and suggest that he tears up his plans completely to try to attract a wider audience is incredibly hypocritical.
WHAT?! When did I call for him to "tear up his plans"? Sure, if his plans were having two grinding for money quests, then yes, he should tear them up and maybe I just won't like Shenmue going forward. But to suggest that S3 did itself no favors by being so alienating that a good chunk of the existing (tiny) fanbase doesn't like it shouldn't be a controversial thing to say.

I might be paraphrasing a little as I can’t be bothered to go back and find your original quote, but it read something along the lines of ‘Yu shouldn’t have focused on adding a story beat that required you to buy whine while minimizing the combat.’, which to me suggests that you see this as a one or the other situation. As per my previous responses, removing the need to grind would not have lead to more resources to improve the combat system.
I mean, if you're not even going to bother to read the correct quote or respond to my clarification, then I'm not sure why you're bothering to even respond. For the record, no, I was not suggesting that removing filler content would have freed up resources for the combat system.

More nonsense. Fan’s didn’t dictate anything.
Why is there a forklift job in the game?

Yu made a game that he thought fans would like. Whether or not he succeeded is debatable, but to suggests that fans don’t know what they want is a ridiculous suggestion. I know from our discussions that you wanted a more in depth fighting system and a more expansive story, for example.
What is meant by "fans don't know what they want" is that fans can't actually create a sequel because they don't know what the original vision was, what new things were coming; they only know what's important to them. Not that they don't know what they like. I, par example, have no idea where the story to Shenmue is going, so I would have no idea how to begin writing Shenmue 4 and would probably do a horrible job. It's Suzuki's thing, he shouldn't be listening to the fans at all.
 
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I've somewhat convinced myself at this point that Tentei(?)* provided the impetus for Sunming's death, took Lan Di in afterward, and blamed it on Iwao.
This is what I assumed happened given the info we currently have. Though it might be interesting if Iwao actually did kill Zhao for noble/self defense reasons.

Personally, I think that Sunming is still alive somewhere and that Iwao and Sunming came up with a plan to stage Sunming’s death after (wrongly) believing that Lan Di had been killed by the Chi You Men.
If he's alive, why wouldn't he go after his child? Why would he let Lan Di become a ruthless gangster?

“It can’t be. You...”.
This is very telling and certainly suggests that Iwao thought Lan Di was dead. Perhaps Tentei (or whoever) convinced Sunming that Iwao killed Longsun?
 
This is what I assumed happened given the info we currently have. Though it might be interesting if Iwao actually did kill Zhao for noble/self defense reasons.
Off the top of my head, the info we have regarding what happened in Meng Cun comes from 3 people; Lan Di, Chen and Zhu.

We know that Chen got his information from Zhu and can assume that Lan Di got his information from Tentei, so were we to make the assumption that Zhu is actually Tentei, the story that Iwao killed Sunming could be traced back to a single source with both a history of lying and a pretty decent motive for lying in this instance. Zhu (a friend of Sunming) being Tentei would also explain why Lan Di may have willingly gone with the Chi You Men upon being told of his father’s death.

Iwao not being the person to have killed Sunming is pretty much the only outcome I can see that would enable Lan Di to feel the remorse needed for Ryo to forgive him, so if Yu wanted to explore a redemption arc for Lan Di, I don’t see how Iwao could be the killer.

Conversely, Iwao being the killer (for whatever reason) could prove important in Ryo’s arc in terms of recognizing the parallels between himself and Lan Di and the whole ‘an eye for an eye leaves the world blind’ fable which could just as easily be where Yu is heading. I suppose this could still work even if Iwao wasn’t the killer as Lan Di believed he was avenging his father, but Iwao not being the squeaky clean man Ryo believed him to have been and Ryo having to come to terms with that may be more interesting from a narrative perspective.

The supporting argument for this outcome is just as compelling, as I can’t help but feeling that if Iwao hadn’t killed Sunming, the first words out of his mouth would have been a protestation of innocence (of course, you could just as easily make this argument to rebuff my belief that Sunming is still alive).

If he's alive, why wouldn't he go after his child? Why would he let Lan Di become a ruthless gangster?
As I said in my original comment, Sunming believing that his son is dead is the only way I could see this working for the very reason you pointed out. If he knew that his son had been taken by the Chi You Men, he would have rescued him or died trying.

This is very telling and certainly suggests that Iwao thought Lan Di was dead. Perhaps Tentei (or whoever) convinced Sunming that Iwao killed Longsun?
Tentei may have been able to convince Sunming that Iwao had killed Lan Di, but I’m pretty sure he’d have had a hard time convincing Iwao of that (not unless he took him down the boozer and got him black out drunk).

Iwao’s reaction to learning who Lan Di is always intrigued me though. If he was guilty of killing SZ, that Lan Di would one day seek revenge shouldn’t have come as a surprise and so the only logical explanation I can come up with is that Iwao believed Lan Di to have been dead.
 
We know that Chen got his information from Zhu and can assume that Lan Di got his information from Tentei, so were we to make the assumption that Zhu is actually Tentei, the story that Iwao killed Sunming could be traced back to a single source with both a history of lying and a pretty decent motive for lying in this instance. Zhu (a friend of Sunming) being Tentei would also explain why Lan Di may have willingly gone with the Chi You Men upon being told of his father’s death.
This would be cool if the idea is to treat Tentei's reveal as a plot twist rather than a new character. It would also make sense why Lan Di leaves Zhu on the rooftop at the end of S2. However, Chai does say that Lan Di hates Yuanda Zhu in S1 and Zhang seems to be pretty loyal to Zhu so it might be difficult to portray a convincing double life.

Iwao not being the person to have killed Sunming is pretty much the only outcome I can see that would enable Lan Di to feel the remorse needed for Ryo to forgive him, so if Yu wanted to explore a redemption arc for Lan Di, I don’t see how Iwao could be the killer.
Yea if Lan Di is going to be portrayed as sympathetic then this is pretty much the only way to go unless Sunming left him literally no choice. I'm hoping for this because Lan Di is a more important character than Iwao or Sunming and he didn't appear to know that Iwao had both mirrors; hopefully that changes the arithmetic in his mind (ie: if Iwao was such a piece of shit, why did he have both keys to a treasure that he didn't collect?).

The supporting argument for this outcome is just as compelling, as I can’t help but feeling that if Iwao hadn’t killed Sunming, the first words out of his mouth would have been a protestation of innocence (of course, you could just as easily make this argument to rebuff my belief that Sunming is still alive).
This is also very telling. That Iwao never claims innocence, and writes a letter to Ryo about being ready to die for your convictions, seems to paint a picture that he may have actually killed Sunming but believed it was the right thing to do.

As I said in my original comment, Sunming believing that his son is dead is the only way I could see this working for the very reason you pointed out. If he knew that his son had been taken by the Chi You Men, he would have rescued him or died trying.
It's certainly possible, but I can't imagine Sunming not trying to take revenge or something given the themes of Shenmue. The benefit of him being alive would be a perfect way of actually learning what happened in Meng Cun, though I was always expecting some kind of supernatural element to fill this in. Also worth pointing out that both Zhu and Yuan seem pretty confident that Sunming is dead.

Tentei may have been able to convince Sunming that Iwao had killed Lan Di, but I’m pretty sure he’d have had a hard time convincing Iwao of that (not unless he took him down the boozer and got him black out drunk).
I'd love to see that flashback.

Iwao’s reaction to learning who Lan Di is always intrigued me though. If he was guilty of killing SZ, that Lan Di would one day seek revenge shouldn’t have come as a surprise and so the only logical explanation I can come up with is that Iwao believed Lan Di to have been dead.
But at the same time:


(0:52 if that didn't work)

Obviously this could easily mean that he knew someone was coming for him, not necessarily Lan Di but it also casts Zhu's letter as suspicious-- surely Iwao knew to beware of those who pursue the mirrors?
 
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I just think Shenmue 3 wasn't quite finished. A lot was cut. Probably because it just wasn't ready.
I do feel the publisher had something to do with this.
It's not that Shenmue 3 was ever going to be *bad*, just that time and money were against Yu and his team.
But unfortunately the money can't keep rolling and development couldn't go on for much longer.
I'm sure we'll see a lot of the cut content (Baisha etc) in Shenmue 4 instead.
 
There is a growing consensus that the main drawback of Shenmue 3 is story-related, implying the gameplay was fine and people are only blaming for one aspect of the game.
While I can't question the "Shenmue feel" much, they were many, many problems on the other side too. And not all of them were depending on money or time, but unfortunately talent too.

- The puzzles were pretty meh. You could feel the same sort of context disconnection as those from Resident Evil 6 or some AAAs.
As a rather non-violent and slow-paced series, Shenmue can and must do better. Those from Shenmue 1&2 were never challenging but were better integrated in general. We're likely to explore other historic places in Shenmue 4 so I hope they saved ideas for there.

- The last drawer exploration at the elder home was a chore. It sounded like an artificial phase to give the player some challenge. The one at the Bailu temple was not better. Meanwhile, finding the right alcohol was a nice investigation since it needed more sense of logic and observation rather blindly triggering everything.

- The spectrum of interactions with folks is part of the gameplay imo, and it was disappointing. The comparison I read between Fangmei and Shenhua highlights the problem well.

- As someone said, the game was pretty monotonous in general. Guessing the Mr.Muscle's martial art and finding the alcohol was nice variations but I don't remember of something else interesting.

- The combat gameplay is pretty poor both technically and tactically. The enemies have generally the same pattern and you just need to keep some space in-between and wait to respond although the game is pretty hard at the beginning. Not everything was bad, I did like the combat tbh, but gameplay-wise, you quickly touches the limits.

- The training system was rather bare-bones considering the potential of the phase. I don't think repeating the same move again and again to increase your statistics was very interesting. It certainly lacks of something to be definitely engaging. The free tournaments really saved the system.

- The last QTE before Lan Di speaks volume about what we lost since Shenmue 2: creativity. If Yu could fulfill his ambition, the QTE would have certainly been a bit more complex without artificial difficulty.

- You can eventually question the core concept of "asking the right people to solve your problem when you're nobody". It's the essence of Shenmue but was there room to deepen the system or give it variations? To make the investigation more challenging? Did the game need to be highly immersive or interactive to make the system interesting again?
In terms of game design, it's arguably the point Shenmue is the most divisive because if not everything click in place, the game might quickly become boring.

- Same thinking about the grinding system. If eating was more immersive, maybe we would read fewer critics regarding that part. Does the Shenmue concept have still sense without some level of content or refinement? Is Shenmue still Shenmue when its NPC system gets closer to a basic JRPG or when we got so few easter eggs? The answer is obviously very personal.

- In addition, all the problems regarding tweaking such as the running system or the QTE timing.

There were a lot of little things Shenmue 3 got right and I'm not questioning the team's achievement.

But, weak story or not, it's not easy to stick while so many aspects are not so well executed or missing. We're all asking for a better story content but I wanted to make clear some like me are simply hoping for a better game as a whole. We know the two are inextricably tied anyway.
 
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Late to the party: I'm quite happy we received a Shenmue III. Is it possibly the weakest for the trilogy? Possibly; I'll need to digest III for a bit and give I and II some replays. There are definitely things I don't like about it, but there are some improvements, too, to be fair. I am, however, quite thrilled to have III, and looking forward to IV!
 
Perhaps, you could be right, but we really have no way to gauge that. The internet highlights edge-cases. We don't know what proportion of people who played SIII had more tempered reactions that either weren't voiced, or weren't amplified by the internet. Unless you have some data that actually supports that everyone wanted a purely story driven game. If that's the case, please do share.




The only time he's on a boat--.

If you want to see that as just fluff, then I can't really do anything about that, but almost every frame of that ending is filled with poetic exposition. If you want to choose to disregard that, so be it.

The scene just before it, with Lan Di, is so painfully excellent: The framing of the characters in the scene, and close-ups on Ryo-Lan Di for the dialogue. The framing with Ren between Lan Di and Ryo, and the wide shots, when Ren inserts himself into the scene. The eye-catch on Lan Di's foot when he back kicks Ren, or on the mirror when Ren chucks it into the woods. The castle literally falling apart behind Lan Di, as he stares out into the night, as if representing the collapse of his plans. Juxtapose it with Ryo facing out toward the burning sun on the boat, enveloped in it, contrasted with being bathed in the glow of the moonlight in Bailu. I can't teach you to see these things, particularly if you apparently refuse to acknowledge them. I don't feel they're very difficult, though. Maybe you just don't find it "believable," but it seems like you haven't had much/any exposure to analyzing film. Which is fine, I guess.

I'm about done, though.

Mortal-Kombat-Fatality-Wood-Sign-1.jpg
 
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