What Story Remains for Shenmue to End?

[iknifaugood]

I was thinking about what story remains for the series to properly come to a close and I'm sure it's different for everyone. So what story threads have been established that you consider essential for the series to wrap up? These can be characters, plot points, locations, inventory items etc.

These are what I consider to be essential for Shenmue to wrap up:

- Go to the Cliff Temple (naturally, since this is where Ryo left off; no idea what we'll find there)
- Go to Meng Cun and figure out what happened between Iwao and Sunming
- Find out what the mirrors actually do and what the treasure is
- Settle the score between Niao Sun and Lan Di and bring down the CYM (not sure if the four leaders are going to be a thing)
- Go to Luoyang and find out about Shenhua's past
- Encounter Ziming (probably the least important thing on this list but I would be shocked if it doesn't come up)
- Learn the importance of the Shenmue tree/what its significance is in the broader story line
- Ryo either takes his revenge on Lan Di or not but that conflict obviously needs to resolve

*BONUS* This doesn't need to happen but I want to see Ren ride a horse.

Obviously I don't know everything Suzuki has planned and what surprises were in store but this is everything that I, from playing S1-3, would expect to see resolved.

 

[spud1897]

I was thinking about what story remains for the series to properly come to a close and I'm sure it's different for everyone. So what story threads have been established that you consider essential for the series to wrap up? These can be characters, plot points, locations, inventory items etc.

These are what I consider to be essential for Shenmue to wrap up:

- Go to the Cliff Temple (naturally, since this is where Ryo left off; no idea what we'll find there)
- Go to Meng Cun and figure out what happened between Iwao and Sunming
- Find out what the mirrors actually do and what the treasure is
- Settle the score between Niao Sun and Lan Di and bring down the CYM (not sure if the four leaders are going to be a thing)
- Go to Luoyang and find out about Shenhua's past
- Encounter Ziming (probably the least important thing on this list but I would be shocked if it doesn't comes up)
- Learn the importance of the Shenmue tree/what its significance is in the broader story line
- Ryo either takes his revenge on Lan Di or not but that conflict obviously needs to resolve

*BONUS* This doesn't need to happen but I want to see Ren ride a horse.

Obviously I don't know everything Suzuki has planned and what surprises were in store but this is everything that I, from playing S1-3, would expect to see resolved.

Within that I'm interested to see how Ryo gets to the stage of being able to match Lan Di, if not best him. Will it be a result of an event where we lose a main character because of Ryo's reckless actions so he goes into training (almost montage style), realizing his mistakes.

 

[~ ひかり ~]

I was thinking about what story remains for the series to properly come to a close and I'm sure it's different for everyone. So what story threads have been established that you consider essential for the series to wrap up? These can be characters, plot points, locations, inventory items etc.

These are what I consider to be essential for Shenmue to wrap up:

- Go to the Cliff Temple (naturally, since this is where Ryo left off; no idea what we'll find there)
- Go to Meng Cun and figure out what happened between Iwao and Sunming
- Find out what the mirrors actually do and what the treasure is
- Settle the score between Niao Sun and Lan Di and bring down the CYM (not sure if the four leaders are going to be a thing)
- Go to Luoyang and find out about Shenhua's past
- Encounter Ziming (probably the least important thing on this list but I would be shocked if it doesn't come up)
- Learn the importance of the Shenmue tree/what its significance is in the broader story line
- Ryo either takes his revenge on Lan Di or not but that conflict obviously needs to resolve

*BONUS* This doesn't need to happen but I want to see Ren ride a horse.

Obviously I don't know everything Suzuki has planned and what surprises were in store but this is everything that I, from playing S1-3, would expect to see resolved.

I agree with everthing you wrote so i will not repeat this things, i will add more things i think is essential for Shenmue to wrap up

I think the Four Wude need to come back. We saw an angry Ryo in the battle against Lan Di in Shenmue III, Ryo improved as martial artist, even Lan Di said that Ryo improved, but is not enough. This means that Ryo didn’t fully understand the importance of the Four Wude, i don’t think Ryo forgot but maybe he needs another master to discpline him, so he can put The Four Wude in to action in the right way and i think this is important.

Specialy with DAN - Be Brave, Stay calm, make the right decision. In my opinion the Shenmue Story is about Ryo’s Journey. It's about Ryo improving as a martial artist and as a human being, is about the people he meet and what he learns from them.

Ryo will mature more in my opinion and i think this will be awesome, this will be so beautiful, this is important in my opinion, this is one of the reasons i think Ryo will not kill Lan Di, sure maybe this can happen, maybe he will kill Lan Di but i really think this will not happen, even Xiuying said "You still don't understand. Martial arts are used to protect people's lives. If you use your fists otherwise, you will walk on the path of evil, too!" In my opinion Ryo at some point will understand that, i think this is important.

I really want to see Lan Di's Past, this will be really nice. I think is important to see the other side of the story, we saw Ryo's part of the story, i think is important to see Lan Di's part.

I think Ryo will finally understand the last words of his father "Keep friends... those you love... close to you" i think is really important. Ryo will come back to Japan in the end or he will stay in China? what do you think? i think about that a lot.

I think the scroll that Ryo found in the first Shenmue will be really important, i think that maybe Ryo will have a new master and the move Ryo will learn will be really important.

I don't remember right now but we still don't know what the White leaf is about, right? maybe will be important, i don't know but i want to see more about that.

I don't remember other things right now but if i remember i will update my reply.

 

[Arcadio]

I don't think Ryo will go to Luoyang, because the brocade about Luoyang was deleted in 3. I think he will definitely go to Beijing, because the original art design shows Ryo standing on the Forbidden City. Luoyang was the capital of the three dynasties, while Beijing was the capital of the Qing dynasty. They are both one of the most important capitals in Chinese history. I don't think Suzuki will specifically use luoyang as a chapter because of fund, but will integrate it with Beijing.
I think the scroll found in S1 is crucial. On this scroll is written a move about a tiger in the mountains. One of the most famous moves about the tiger and the mountains in the bajiquan is"猛虎硬爬山".This move is the famous skill of Cangzhou bajiquan master Li shuwen.When Suzuki first came to cangzhou, he wanted to see is Li shuwen.I think Ryo will learn this in Meng Cun and rely on it to defeat the Lan di.

 

[hyo_razuki]

Good points made by everyone, so I won't repeat any. I think finding out about the prophecy poem would be very important. It is the prologue to the first 3 games after all.

 

[iknifaugood]

I think Ryo will finally understand the last words of his father "Keep friends... those you love... close to you" i think is really important. Ryo will come back to Japan in the end or he will stay in China? what do you think? i think about that a lot.

I think about this too, especially because so far Ryo has ignored it. He left everyone in Japan at the end of S1, and he leaves everyone he met in S2 to go to Guilin. Ren and Shenhua are only with him at the end of S3 for different reasons, not because they're close friends.

I think the scroll that Ryo found in the first Shenmue will be really important, i think that maybe Ryo will have a new master and the move Ryo will learn will be really important.

OMG I can't believe I forgot about the mysterious scroll! Yes, I would say this has to come back as well.

I don't remember right now but we still don't know what the White leaf is about, right? maybe will be important, i don't know but i want to see more about that.

The white leaf has been in the inventory since the first game and I think you have to get it, but thus far it hasn't set anything up specific, so I'm assuming it's connected to a different part of the story. Like Ryo will get to a place where he'll see the white leaves and pull that one out and realize his dad has been there. Maybe in Meng Cun? But definitely the white leaf will be used at some point.

 

[iknifaugood]

Good points made by everyone, so I won't repeat any. I think finding out about the prophecy poem would be very important. It is the prologue to the first 3 games after all.

I'm concerned that Suzuki considers this "explained" since he said that S3 would explain it. I was assuming we'd get some idea of the origin since in S2 Shenhua says that the people of Bailu village have been reciting that poem since "long ago", and I don't think we're heading back to Bailu any time soon so...

 

[hmjohnny]

It honestly depends on how important all this stuff is to the story.

The mirrors and the treasure will have a payoff, it may be supernatural or not, but I don't think the treasure will go unfulfilled.

As for the other stuff, eh it may just not be that important anymore, or ever was important.

Go to the Cliff Temple (naturally, since this is where Ryo left off; no idea what we'll find there)

This will happen but the significance of it may be overstated. It might just be another stop on the journey that points Ryo to the next destination.

Go to Meng Cun and figure out what happened between Iwao and Sunming

Depending on budget and how the story is restructured going to Cuangzhou/Meng Cun may not happen but considering its signifiance to Baji it's likely. Finding out about Iwao/Zhao needs to happen, but I'm sure it will just be an NPC, probably their old master or something, that just tells Ryo yeah he killed him because he wanted the mirrors or something like that and Ryo just shrugging it off.

Find out what the mirrors actually do and what the treasure is

This will definitely happen but I expect to be underwhelmed at this point for the payoff. It's likely an addition to the story to keep it barely interesting in an otherwise generic revenge plot

Settle the score between Niao Sun and Lan Di and bring down the CYM (not sure if the four leaders are going to be a thing)

something will have to happen but how long this plays out remains to be seen.

Go to Luoyang and find out about Shenhua's past

this was mentioned above but this may have been excised since they removed the tapestry in Shenhua's house. So far I don't see how Luoyang fits into the story in any meaningfull way except that it's close to the Shaolin temple where Ryo will go to train. Again, not for any story purposes but because Suzuki went to Shaolin on his trip to China and it would be cool. As for Shenhua's powers, it seems that S3 didn't disregard that but how important they are who knows. It's likely she is just a person with powers, it won't have any larger bearing on the plot except she may use her powers to help Ryo periodically or at a crucial moment (blowing up Lan Di lol)

Encounter Ziming (probably the least important thing on this list but I would be shocked if it doesn't come up)

I don't see how Xiuying is supposed to come back and fit into this story anymore. Obviously this was planned to be a thing but who knows. He might just be a guy you meet.

Learn the importance of the Shenmue tree/what its significance is in the broader story line

I don't think it has a broader importance. Considering how S3 treated the addition of Shenmue trees it may just be an old tree and have thematic purpose at best. Consider that the title wasn't chosen until late in development on the DC almost a year before release so it may not have had major importance to the plot.

Ryo either takes his revenge on Lan Di or not but that conflict obviously needs to resolve

Obviously this is the main thing. Something will happen to resolve this conflict, likely Lan Di will die though maybe not from Ryo's hand. I'm most curious as to how this will play out.

As for the mysterious scroll (twin fang strike), it does correlate to a Bajiquan move and is a part of Akira's moveset, but it's also optional to obtain and Suzuki himself forgot about it when asked if it would appear in the inventory for S3. I don't think it has any story significance but who knows.

My general impression is that the story for Shenmue was never any good. If it was, it's impossible to tell properly now with the resources available and the constrictions on the number of games, especially since the fans are more concerned with the open world aspects than the plot anyway. To be honest, I think Suzuki is as well so don't expect too much going forward, the plot just seems an excuse to keep the journey going. there's a reason the same tings get talked about on this forum ad nauseam , there isn't much to work with here for the fans to dissect.

EDIT: and the prophecy is as good as explained as we're going to get. It's origin is simply long ago from Bailu village and it's meaning is just that Shenhua has to go and help Ryo. it's an excuse to motivate her character and give her a reason to be in the games

 

[iknifaugood]

their old master or something, that just tells Ryo yeah he killed him because he wanted the mirrors or something like that and Ryo just shrugging it off.

While I agree he's likely to get a story from some NPC, I doubt Ryo's reaction will be to "shrug it off", especially if it's revealed that Iwao did kill Sunming.

This will definitely happen but I expect to be underwhelmed at this point for the payoff. It's likely an addition to the story to keep it barely interesting in an otherwise generic revenge plot

I'm more worried it's just a treasure at this point because that's stupid.

I don't see how Xiuying is supposed to come back and fit into this story anymore. Obviously this was planned to be a thing but who knows. He might just be a guy you meet.

Yeah it's definitely going to be a stretch for her to miraculously know where Ryo is at this point.

I don't think it has a broader importance. Considering how S3 treated the addition of Shenmue trees it may just be an old tree and have thematic purpose at best. Consider that the title wasn't chosen until late in development on the DC almost a year before release so it may not have had major importance to the plot.

Well then that's dumb. I always thought the Shenmue trees were going to function like weirwood trees in GoT, like Shenhua can sense past events through them (we literally get a flashback the moment we're introduced to the tree), and I assumed it was a possible way for Ryo to learn the truth about Sunming Zhao. Like maybe he was killed under a Shenmue tree or something.

It's likely she is just a person with powers

Shenhua's parents are shown in a flashback and her origins are clearly important. I would consider the story unfinished if it's never addressed.

As for the mysterious scroll (twin fang strike), it does correlate to a Bajiquan move and is a part of Akira's moveset, but it's also optional to obtain and Suzuki himself forgot about it when asked if it would appear in the inventory for S3. I don't think it has any story significance but who knows.

Is it optional? If so then it's definitely something that can be cut. Suzuki seems to have forgotten a few things...

the prophecy is as good as explained as we're going to get. It's origin is simply long ago from Bailu village and it's meaning is just that Shenhua has to go and help Ryo. it's an excuse to motivate her character and give her a reason to be in the games

This is definitely the impression the ending of S3 gives. However, even in the bad ending to S3, we get talk of the morning star and the path etc. There's obviously more to the prophecy than just the meeting (dragons and phoenixes and starts and wind and clouds etc.), but it's unlikely that it will be explained in any depth unless it originates somewhere other than Bailu village.

 

[hmjohnny]

While I agree he's likely to get a story from some NPC, I doubt Ryo's reaction will be to "shrug it off", especially if it's revealed that Iwao did kill Sunming.

I'm exaggerating a bit. Obviously that scene will have Ryo have a reaction. But I don't think it will have bearing on the overall plot or characters. Like after finding that out is Ryo going to stop pursuing Lan Di?

Well then that's dumb. I always thought the Shenmue trees were going to function like weirwood trees in GoT, like Shenhua can sense past events through them (we literally get a flashback the moment we're introduced to the tree), and I assumed it was a possible way for Ryo to learn the truth about Sunming Zhao. Like maybe he was killed under a Shenmue tree or something.

I also would've figured they were super important, it's the games namesake after all, but so far I can't see how they fit in.

Shenhua's parents are shown in a flashback and her origins are clearly important. I would consider the story unfinished if it's never addressed.

Maybe. but don't expect anything more than a throw away line about it.

Is it optional? If so then it's definitely something that can be cut. Suzuki seems to have forgotten a few things...

Pretty sure. Its hidden behind the calligraphy in the dojo. I don't think the game forces you to take it, it's a hidden item. And Yeah Suzuki has forgotten a lot. He forgot Xuiying and Ziming were orphans. Doesn't instill a lot of confidence in his story writing.

This is definitely the impression the ending of S3 gives. However, even in the bad ending to S3, we get talk of the morning star and the path etc. There's obviously more to the prophecy than just the meeting (dragons and phoenixes and starts and wind and clouds etc.), but it's unlikely that it will be explained in any depth unless it originates somewhere other than Bailu village

Yes but it's likely all very straightforward. These are metaphors for the current characters to make it seem poetic but it doesn't really add up to much.

Basically I'm of the mind now that this stuff either doesn't matter or will be handled in the simplest most bare bones way possible going forward. until S4 comes out and Suzuki proves me wrong I'm not convinced otherwise.

 

[iknifaugood]

Like after finding that out is Ryo going to stop pursuing Lan Di?

This can go a couple of ways:

1. Iwao killed Sunming for the greater good or something. Neither of them are framed as evil, so maybe Sunming was going to give the mirrors to the CYM to protect his son or something? And when Iwao tries to stop him, Sunming fights him or something like that. Ryo still has to come to terms with what happened but the Iwao/Sunming rift is still mirrored by Ryo/Lan Di. This is the likeliest scenario imo but it requires us to learn a lot more about the mirrors/ the treasure. If the treasure is money then this scenario is really stupid.

2. Iwao didn't kill Sunming and Lan Di was just lied to. This is the lamest possible scenario and essentially breaks the story.

3. Iwao killed Sunming in a moment of weakness. This is the most interesting in terms of making Iwao a complex character but it would require us to learn way more about him and Sunming. He murdered Sunming and took the mirrors to Japan, and Lan Di was right to want revenge. This causes Ryo to reconsider what he's fighting for and look at the bigger picture.

And Yeah Suzuki has forgotten a lot. He forgot Xuiying and Ziming were orphans. Doesn't instill a lot of confidence in his story writing.

Sigh...

Yes but it's likely all very straightforward. These are metaphors for the current characters to make it seem poetic but it doesn't really add up to much.

It's certainly possible but that doesn't explain how these people knew that Shenhua in particular was so important. Like "one who holds the phoenix" and "appears from a far eastern land across the sea" could be many people, but the poem is specifically about Shenhua... she is told to go with Ryo, she is told she will meet someone, it's her destiny. And she also happens to have super powers. If that's just waved off as "ancient prophecy gonna ancient prophecy" then, again, I would consider that an incomplete story.

 

[hmjohnny]

This can go a couple of ways:

1 seems the most likely. It would fit the story of how Zhao died while still keeping Iwao the good guy. It also fits the "living for one's convictions, dying for one's convictions" ethos Iwao had.

3 is also possible though. I've always wondered about Iwao's last words (keep friends close...) and if it means he and Zhao had a falling out, perhaps over the mirrors?

I'm worried that despite the interesting implications for this, it will be presented as a quick dialogue with no more gravitas that Yuanda Zhu or Yuan's revelations at the end of S2/S3. Ultimately it will just be a relatively short plot reveal and then its back to asking everyone around town where the thugs hideout is and lets go try our luck against Lan Di again with no real change to character or plot.

she is told to go with Ryo, she is told she will meet someone, it's her destiny. And she also happens to have super powers. If that's just waved off as "ancient prophecy gonna ancient prophecy" then, again, I would consider that an incomplete story.

It's a prophecy that describes the events of the story very loosely. Ryo is the phoenix and Lan Di is the dragon. Shenhua may be the morning star but that's a little unclear. Given what the bad endings tell us the story may be leading towards something hence " the path" but I'm not sure if that's reading into it too much too.

It could be as simple as Ryo goes west, meets Shenhua, fights Lan Di, saves the day etc. Maybe we were reading into too much?

Also, I started another thread a while back about the project Berkeley poem thats super vague, but does touch on the ending a little bit and give some clues that it will end in a climactic battle "a battle of life and death". So who knows.

 

[iknifaugood]

I'm worried that despite the interesting implications for this, it will be presented as a quick dialogue with no more gravitas that Yuanda Zhu or Yuan's revelations at the end of S2/S3. Ultimately it will just be a relatively short plot reveal and then its back to asking everyone around town where the thugs hideout is and lets go try our luck against Lan Di again with no real change to character or plot.

It comes down to what the story is actually about. If it's more about the mirrors and lore, then it makes sense to have a cool reveal of what the mirrors do and have Ryo and Lan Di be simpler characters. This is more LotR-ish where the ring is a metaphor for power etc. If it's more character-oriented then it's OK for the treasure to be something simpler, but then you need deeper characters with complex motivations (which is basically impossible to do properly if S4 is the last game).

It's a prophecy that describes the events of the story very loosely. Ryo is the phoenix and Lan Di is the dragon. Shenhua may be the morning star but that's a little unclear. Given what the bad endings tell us the story may be leading towards something hence " the path" but I'm not sure if that's reading into it too much too.

It could be as simple as Ryo goes west, meets Shenhua, fights Lan Di, saves the day etc. Maybe we were reading into too much?

Also, I started another thread a while back about the project Berkeley poem thats super vague, but does touch on the ending a little bit and give some clues that it will end in a climactic battle "a battle of life and death". So who knows.

Again it depends. If it's more lore focused then I would expect a cool explanation for the poem and why Shenhua and Ryo's meeting is so important. If it's more character-focused then it's fine if they don't explain the poem, but then I would expect a cool reveal about Shenhua's past and powers and how that affects her. What YS can't do is take the easy way out and not explain anything. That's just bad storytelling.

 

[hmjohnny]

What YS can't do is take the easy way out and not explain anything. That's just bad storytelling.

Guess what it's going to be?

 

[Machsi]

I'm concerned that Suzuki considers this "explained" since he said that S3 would explain it. I was assuming we'd get some idea of the origin since in S2 Shenhua says that the people of Bailu village have been reciting that poem since "long ago", and I don't think we're heading back to Bailu any time soon so...

No we will not revisit Bailu

 

[iknifaugood]

Guess what it's going to be?

Then why put it in in the first place? Like why make an ancient prophecy and give Shenhua super powers?

 

[hmjohnny]

Then why put it in in the first place? Like why make an ancient prophecy and give Shenhua super powers?

why have a four toed statue, a guy that turns into smoke and can shape shift into the dead, the voices, the sickness, time travel, the others have super powers (sometimes), the numbers, magical healing (sometimes), why was Walt special etc.

Honestly I want to believe that Shenmue is still good. But the more I think about the more I feel it's Lost all over again.

I'm not saying we won't get answers to most of these questions, I'm just worried it's not going to be satisfying.

EDIT: I should add that Suzuki wrote all of the main characters dialogue and all of the main scenes for S3 PERSONALLY. He delegated the NPC town dialogue to others but he still oversaw it. Shenmue 3 is what Suzuki wanted, it's what he wrote himself. If you are expecting a higher degree of storytelling going forward you're in for a big surprise.

 

[hyo_razuki]

Yeah, I remember being kind of bummed at the beginning of S3 when Ryo asks Shenny about the letter and the prophecy and she goes "No time to talk about that, I just wanna find my father."

Later, they have time to play Rock, Paper, Fuckface for hours upon hours on end while people are being held hostage right there in Bailu. Unfortunately the conversation about the prophecy still does not happen, neither do they discuss the second Shenmue tree.

To be fair, I think the letter does get mentioned once in those evening conversations, iirc. Although nothing substantial is said.

S3 has me worried, Yu really does consider the prophecy "explained" We're probably not going to return to Bailu but the poem originated there, so I can't really think of a better opportunity to explain. It may well not come up again.

 

[GhostTrick]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does Shenhua's father ever explain why he was carving those two huge mirrors ?

And who made that mecanism which they activated in the cave ?

How would he know Ryo was coming when he left the letter for Shenhua, saying about "the one who hold the Phoenix" when no one, save a few of Ryo's friends, is supposed to know at this time that Ryo is holding the Phoenix Mirror.

 

[spud1897]

why have a four toed statue, a guy that turns into smoke and can shape shift into the dead, the voices, the sickness, time travel, the others have super powers (sometimes), the numbers, magical healing (sometimes), why was Walt special etc.

Honestly I want to believe that Shenmue is still good. But the more I think about the more I feel it's Lost all over again.

I'm not saying we won't get answers to most of these questions, I'm just worried it's not going to be satisfying.

EDIT: I should add that Suzuki wrote all of the main characters dialogue and all of the main scenes for S3 PERSONALLY. He delegated the NPC town dialogue to others but he still oversaw it. Shenmue 3 is what Suzuki wanted, it's what he wrote himself. If you are expecting a higher degree of storytelling going forward you're in for a big surprise.

Do we have any interviews as such that state this or is this an assumption, I can't find any. Admittedly I've only had a quick look

I ask because there's two script writers credited in the end credits if the game and they surely would have scripted things with Yu Suzuki. He wouldn't have had the time to do that and manage a project.