What would have Shenmue III on Dreamcast have been like?

RyoHazuki84

俺が益荒男
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Aug 1, 2018
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Yokohama, Japan
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Shenmue
Just imagine, the Dreamcast all around the world had a life span up until 2007 as it did in Japan (Despite how Saturn fanboys give Stolar shit (it's not his fault the Saturn failed in North America), Stolar would have NEVER given up on Dreamcast in North America. He made its launch a success and I think he could have kept its momentum going. Not enough to beat the PS2, but enough to keep it relevant and he would have never have shipped it off to X-Box at the last minute as Peter Moore did). Shenmue was relatively a bigger success to the point that Shenmue III would have come out on Dreamcast in Japan in Dec 2002, and in the US in early 2003. How would it differ from what we got now? We know some obvious ones such as the VF engine staying in place, and we would still have OutRun, Space Harrier, and After Burner. Also, no Save Shenmue temple.

Another obvious one, saves could have been carried over so depending on how much money you had at the end of Shenmue II, you wouldn't have to worry about grinding for money to get that damn wine. However, I believe Son was intended to be based on Shun Di and if you sparred with him, I wonder if he would've fought like him. As for the two main bosses, I wonder how they would've played out. I think Chai would've been another free battle as opposed to a simple QTE fight.

1. Just like how Shenmue II on Dreamcast was Japanese only, it's probable that Shenmue III audio-wise would be Japanese only as well.

2. The bodycheck and reverse bodycheck, being regular moves for Akira in Virtua Fighter, would also be regular moves in the VF engine. However, in the boss fights, like how that reverse elbow against Dou Niu was a freeze QTE, I think the bodycheck and reverse bodycheck in those fights would be freeze QTEs in those instances.

3. The QTEs would be much better.

4. I think 85% of the story would have still been the same. I think it would have still ended with Ryo, Shen Hua, and Ren walking along the Great Wall.

5. I think chopping wood would have been chopping tiles like how it was originally conceived based on old concept art.

6. We would be gambling directly for money like in Shenmue II instead of tokens just to accommodate modern gambling laws in Japan.

7. Would we have still gotten the international calls?

8. Would eating food still be part of the game?

9. Would Ryo finally have the ability to change clothes?

10. Would we still get Chobu Chan? Or would Chobu Chan be replaced with random Sega characters like Sonic?

However, I do wonder if the training would still be in-tact such as sparring, the one-inch punch, rooster steps, and the horse stance. Or, would we go back to shadow boxing like in Shenmue I?
 
Fun topic to speculate. My bets:
  • Niao Sun's hair would have been black, like the model we saw in the premiere videos
  • Shenhua's house wouldn't have had an extra room. Thus, Ryo and Shenhua would have slept in the same room separated by a screen.
  • Niaowu would probably have the name of a real location, just like Hong Kong or Guilin.
  • There would have been some extra scenes in the way out from Bailu to Niaowu. Maybe at the cave, or at the Langhuishan docks. Since they would have been able to recycle the scenarios from Shenmue II.
  • Much less open shops in Niaowu, because of memory constraints. Lots of doors and loading.
  • I think most shops in Niaowu would have been non-interactive, just decorative without the possibility to buy. Just like in Shenmue II's Hong Kong.
  • The main menu music of the first two games would have stayed. And the user interface, too.
  • I'm sure fishing and herb collecting would have been mostly the same, since they were heavily hinted in the Shenmue II ending.
  • I think we would have got phone calls to Shenmue I characters, but maybe not Shenmue II (which was too recent story-wise and in the real world).
  • The father of Shenhua wouldn't have been named Yuan (just like one of the main antagonists of the previous game)
  • Shorter Bailu village episode, with no arcades nor capsule toys. And much less commerce. Maybe spanning only one disc. Niaowu the meat of the game, spanning two discs. And a final disc for Baisha and the supposed strategy game there. Maybe the game would have been delayed, but there was Sega behind it.
  • I don't think Ryo would have been able to change clothes. Since there would be less commerce an item trading in general. And I guess modelling was more expensive and difficult in the Dreamcast era (and disk space too). Maybe he would have worn the training suit for story purposes.
  • Proper music looping (with no fade-outs), since the music would necessarily be midi-based and not pre-recorded.
  • Badass trailers and lots of well-cinematographed cutscenes.
  • The cursive logo.
 
Fun topic to speculate. My bets:
  • Niao Sun's hair would have been black, like the model we saw in the premiere videos
  • Shenhua's house wouldn't have had an extra room. Thus, Ryo and Shenhua would have slept in the same room separated by a screen.
  • Niaowu would probably have the name of a real location, just like Hong Kong or Guilin.
  • There would have been some extra scenes in the way out from Bailu to Niaowu. Maybe at the cave, or at the Langhuishan docks. Since they would have been able to recycle the scenarios from Shenmue II.
  • Much less open shops in Niaowu, because of memory constraints. Lots of doors and loading.
  • I think most shops in Niaowu would have been non-interactive, just decorative without the possibility to buy. Just like in Shenmue II's Hong Kong.
  • The main menu music of the first two games would have stayed. And the user interface, too.
  • I'm sure fishing and herb collecting would have been mostly the same, since they were heavily hinted in the Shenmue II ending.
  • I think we would have got phone calls to Shenmue I characters, but maybe not Shenmue II (which was too recent story-wise and in the real world).
  • The father of Shenhua wouldn't have been named Yuan (just like one of the main antagonists of the previous game)
  • Shorter Bailu village episode, with no arcades nor capsule toys. And much less commerce. Maybe spanning only one disc. Niaowu the meat of the game, spanning two discs. And a final disc for Baisha and the supposed strategy game there. Maybe the game would have been delayed, but there was Sega behind it.
  • I don't think Ryo would have been able to change clothes. Since there would be less commerce an item trading in general. And I guess modelling was more expensive and difficult in the Dreamcast era (and disk space too). Maybe he would have worn the training suit for story purposes.
  • Proper music looping (with no fade-outs), since the music would necessarily be midi-based and not pre-recorded.
  • Badass trailers and lots of well-cinematographed cutscenes.
  • The cursive logo.
This is one of my biggest gripes with the third game. I really miss the menu music of the first two games. Very peaceful and relaxing. :)
 
We have some clues of what the Dreamcast version might have been like.

In 2010, Yu Suzuki said the following about Shenmue 3's earlier concept:

YS: The concept for Shenmue 3 already exists, so... [Laughs] The world of Shenmue 1 and 2 expanded outward. So, for example, in the original games, of all the data used for dialogue in the game, the main characters' dialogue was about 20%. The remaining 80% was dialogue by characters other than the two main characters. But Shenmue 3 doesn't expand outward, but inward. A lot of the dialogue is used for the main character and especially dialogue with Shenhua. They talk about a lot of different, deeper things.
(https://archive.ph/20160622171916/http://www.1up.com/features/disappearance-suzuki-part-2)

To me, if "the world of Shenmue 1 and 2 expanded outward" by featuring large scale worlds with free-roaming exploration, Shenmue 3 on the Dreamcast would have instead expanded "inward" by constricting the size of its worlds (we know that Niaowu was originally envisioned as being roughly the same size as Dobuita) to focus 80% on taking a deep dive into Shenhua and Ryo's relationship.

I do wonder if the more linear gameplay shift in Shenmue 2 Disc 4 could have been a tease for the sort of gameplay we'd be getting in Shenmue 3. The fact Yu was so confident he could make Shenmue 3 with just $2 million supports this more stripped-down original vision for the third chapter.
 
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I'd say he thought to get away with for 6 million, but for 2 million been a lot of point click/David Cage QTE action with most only story beats maybe a few minigames.

Totally agree though
 
The original concept sounds interesting. It really sounds somehow to me like a big extension of the disc 4 part when Ryo meets Shenhua for the first time. Would have love to play it.

It also would make more sense to sew Ryo growing as a person. At the the beginning of 2 until the middle Ryo was still the old guy. He refuses to open up and accept any help from anybody. After meeting Shenhua at Disc 4 he slowly changes. Would be great to see him changing in an an alternative version of S3. Maybe we can see his personal growth in S4.
 
I'd say that original concept of expanding inwards is still somewhat there in the final product. I mean the nightly conversations with Shenhua is the extension of what was going on during the long walk of Disc 4 of Shenmue II so I think we kind of got the core concept of what was going to happen with the initial plan in that sense.

I think we may have got a slightly different Bailu. A Bailu that may have been more rustic without any hint of technology. As in no capsule toys, no arcade machines and such. I still think that was a bit of a missed opportunity with SIII. They should have saved Capsule Toys and the Arcade for Chobu and focused on the rustic nature of Bailu village being a rustic relic. But oh well, fan service won out. Not too much of a complaint, but I think original Bailu may have been even more rustic than the Bailu we did get. Which, if that were the case, might have been interesting to see how people would have reacted to suddenly losing everything they know and love about Shenmue.

The real question is would have there been a fishing game if it came out on Dreamcast? I do believe they may have started trying new things like the fishing game. Herb collecting might have been a little harder given the hardware limitations of the time though. It would have been interesting to see what they came up with given hardware limitations if it had been a Dreamcast game.

Combat wise? If it had been on Dreamcast, we probably would have got a further extension of what was going on with Shenmue II. Meaning the slightly faster paced combat that Shenmue II had would have been built on a little more. I would imagine the body check and reverse body check would have been counter throw moves that could have been pulled off whenever you liked with a certain button combination as opposed to them being restricted to QTE events like in the final game we got.

Actually I was thinking about this randomly the other day. Given how big the move list would have eventually gotten (It was already pretty sizeable come the end of SII as was), would it have been possible they would have started playing around with stance switching? As in learning new styles would be new stances that could have been switched between on the fly to better manage the move list? I liked the way in which Shenmue II let you assign moves to button combinations, but I do think that move list would have got unwieldy as it inevitably grew with each new game and I do have to wonder if stance switching would have ever been considered as you learn more styles?

I imagine much of the story would have been the same. The real question is would people have been disappointed back then by not getting answers they thought they were gonna get? Or would people have been more lenient back then because the wait would have been lesser and there would still be hope for Shenmue IV?

I think the conclusion of the game would have been different though. If we were in that timeline where Shenmue still had decent money being thrown at it then it probably would have ended with the original plan of Baisha as opposed to the cobbled together rushed ending that the final product had. I still think the very ending would have been the same though.

After an epic battle in Baisha (that may have recalled the ascent of the Yellow Head building) it probably would have ended with Ryo facing off against Lan Di and ultimately losing the first fight to Lan Di. I'm more than convinced the very ending would be the exact same. But the build up may have been more epic with the Baisha chapter fully realized.
 
As the others say, it'd probably just be Disc 4 version 2. Linear corridors filled out with dialogue, interspliced with QTE segments, before arriving at a small, explorable location where you perform tasks then talk some more, followed by some nice cinematography. Rinse and repeat.

I probably woulda been itching to play that one more than the version it appears we got. I still haven't played it, but from what little I've seen, it kinda just looks like Fan Service: The Video Game. My interest in buying a PlayStation simply to play what I paid for lies at about 16.5% right now.

The Shenmue story (as in how things played out for the video game series, not the narrative of the games themselves) is just a real shame. The whole Shenmue III thing makes me feel almost like I did when Ricky Hatton tried making a comeback. Some indescribable form of grief and mourning for what should've been, and apologetic pity for how it turned out.
 
To a certain degree the Character Development was also present in the actual S3 that is true. The scenes at Shenhua's house and the scenes in the hotel were cool but I think it was not as deep as it could have been. Would have been nicer if Ryo and Shenhua would explore Bailiu and Niaowu together the whole time. Shenhua is important character to series after all. Turning her into an Ine-San 2.0 in S3 is not that cool. It was not that bad I still could enjoy S3 a lot but after the Disc 4 segment of S2 it is still a pity that Shenhua's role was reduced.
 
This is one of my biggest gripes with the third game. I really miss the menu music of the first two games. Very peaceful and relaxing. :)
I'd also add "mysterious" and "transcendent" to your list of adjectives for the main menu music. Which I also missed a lot. For all the fanservice Shenmue III got, music consistence was not one of their strong points.

Returning to the point of the thread, it would have been interesting to know how a more introspective Shenmue III would have been received back then. Shenmue II was universally praised for being bigger than the previous game, so going back could have been controversial. Even if they came up with an advanced or revolutionary advancement in the simulation of a real relationship, it sounded like some kind of niche genre, like a visual novel or a Seaman-like thing.
 
Somehow never occurred to me about the subtitle typo. Oof!
 
I am curious about that too, but...Shenmue Dojo • View topic - Name of Shenhua's stepfather uncovered?

Zongshou Yuan was the name that @LanDC found and @Kiyuu translated from the letter in Shenmue II's Stone Pit.

Here's a hint at Ryo and Shenhua sharing a room:

Shenmue 2 Unused Scene: Sleeping at Shenhua's House - YouTube

Lastly, I think we would've seen Shenmue III on Xbox more than anything. MAYBE a Dreamcast/Xbox release in Japan, but for sure Xbox exclusive in the west. Dreamcast was dead by March 2001 by SEGA's own words, and as much as any of us would've liked a full on Dreamcast version, it would never have happened outside of Japan at most.
 
Occsionally I ponder if a 2003/2004 Shenmue lll might've had a shorter Bailu Village (maybe only one more disc) and focused mainly on Niaowu and Baisha to capture more Kowloon/Wan Chai hustle and bustle to up the story a bit--much like he already did by throwing Disc 4 onto the end there.
 
Also, I believe these were found by @LanDC in What's Shenmue:

Baisha.jpg
Baisha partial loading screen

Li River.jpg
Li River partial loading screen

Passenger - Cargo Ship.jpg
Passenger Cargo Ship partial loading screen

Baisha is without a doubt the same Baisha that was supposed to be in Shenmue III, while the Li River could've been on the way to Langhuishan (we know that there was a decently long section cut between Kowloon and Guilin), or from Bailu on the way to Niaowu. The ship could've been for the cut boat chapter, the boat from Kowloon to Guilin, Bailu to Niaowu, or Niaowu to the next location (ostensibly the cliff temple?).
 
In Japanese, Yuan is read as ユアン while in Japanese Yuen's name is エン
So does that mean the English pronunciations of both Shenmue II Yuan (Yellow Head), and Shenhua's dad Yuan are both correct? Are the Romaji correct?
 
So does that mean the English pronunciations of both Shenmue II Yuan (Yellow Head), and Shenhua's dad Yuan are both correct? Are the Romaji correct?
No, because ユアン was mistranslated in the English dub and should actually have been Ewan. Yuan wouldn’t be written in Katakana.
 
So what about the English pronunciation of Shenhua's father?
 
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