What's Shenmue (To You)?

[iknifaugood]

I wanted to get a feel for everyone's thoughts on Shenmue 3 (and the series more broadly) because I don't understand the praise it's getting from fans. The only reason to revive Shenmue specifically is to continue the story and it completely fails in that regard. To me, Shenmue has always been a martial arts epic first and foremost, not a life simulator, this is how it's been sold in all the trailers since Project Berkley. If all you wanted was a facsimile of Shenmue's gameplay systems then Suzuki could have Kickstarted a "spiritual sequel" a la Yooka Laylee, Bloodstained, or Mighty No.9, but it doesn't even retain those; almost every gameplay system has undergone massive changes for the worst.

What I learned in Shenmue 3 that I didn't already know:
- The relief in the quarry took generations to complete
- The mirrors were made in 1910
- Iwao had a wife when he went to China
- Iwao and Sunming Zhao trained under a master whose name is Feng
- The dragon represents the emperor and the phoenix represents the empress
- The Chi You Men adopted Longsun Zhao at a young age
- A mysterious woman (Niao Sun's name is never mentioned in game) wants to usurp Lan Di as leader of the Chi You Men
- (EDIT) Evidently there's more than one Shenmue tree?? The game buries this in the notebook for some reason...

Am I missing something? How is this in any way a meaningful continuation of the story we waited 18 years for? If they had simply retained the systems in Shenmue 2: no stamina, food, leveling, and normal gambling, this would be an objectively better game, to say nothing of the combat system or story. So to the people saying that this is a worthy sequel, or even more baffling, that it’s an unchanged extension of the previous games, I have to ask, seriously, “what’s Shenmue?”

 

[Schmeman]

The thing I like most about Shenmue is the emphasis on NPC's and everyone being unique and named and having their own life. I enjoyed that there was always something new to learn about everyone in Shenmue, regardless of how trivial it was. I went through the game rather quickly, but I'm excited to go back and really see what there is to know about everyone in Bailu and Niaowu.

I'm not particularly bothered with the main story, honestly, and it's never been what's interested me about Shenmue. I want to see Lan Di and Ryo team up at some point though after Lan Di gets broken by the Chi You Men and Ryo learns to find forgiveness. Plus, then the two of them can play face off. I hear it's taking Mengcun by storm.

 

[iknifaugood]

I'm not particularly bothered with the main story, honestly, and it's never been what's interested me about Shenmue

This is what I don't understand. Why Shenmue 3 then? Why not, "Yu Suzuki's Mueshen" the game where you explore detailed Chinese villages talking to NPCs? If you don't really care about the story then couldn't this have been any game with the same mechanics?

 

[jasonorme666]

Shenmue to me has always been about exploring interesting locations while maintaining the realistic and mundane activities and ritualistic details of life... but with a mystery to solve and faces to punch.

 

[TwiceFriedRice]

Stop it.

The story is threadbare with some pretty bad storytelling elements, and it is very disappointing. But the game itself, while very good IMO, is objectively solid at the very least.

 

[iknifaugood]

But the game itself, while very good IMO, is objectively solid at the very least.

I strongly disagree. It’s serviceable at best but nearly every aspect of the game suffers from some bizarre, borderline idiotic design decisions and would have been better if they weren’t changed.

The stamina/health system is legitimately one of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen. It actively discourages exploration because Ryo will die if he runs too much at which point he needs to spend money (which is incredibly hard to earn) on food (all of which is useless except for garlic and bananas).

The economy is broken because for some reason everything is super expensive and gambling is no longer as lucrative. Plus twice the game pulls this shit where the story stops completely until you grind for absurdly expensive items. I put hours into lucky hit because it was the only thing with a decent payout. To top it off you don’t even win money, instead you have this insane token system that requires you to run around several places to trade tokens for items and then pawn them off for money.

The combat is expectedly downgraded, which I don’t begrudge, it’s actually fun in its own way except for the bullshit leveling where you have to buy move scrolls which are tied to gatcha ball collections or absurdly expensive. If you don’t have a move equipped you can’t level up. It’s insane that this made it into the final product.

If they had literally maintained the original systems this would be an objectively better game.

 

[TwiceFriedRice]

I strongly disagree. It’s serviceable at best but nearly every aspect of the game suffers from some bizarre, borderline idiotic design decisions and would have been better if they weren’t changed.

The stamina/health system is legitimately one of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen. It actively discourages exploration because Ryo will die if he runs too much at which point he needs to spend money (which is incredibly hard to earn) on food (all of which is useless except for garlic and bananas).

The economy is broken because for some reason everything is super expensive and gambling is no longer as lucrative. Plus twice the game pulls this shit where the story stops completely until you grind for absurdly expensive items. I put hours into lucky hit because it was the only thing with a decent payout. To top it off you don’t even win money, instead you have this insane token system that requires you to run around several places to trade tokens for items and then pawn them off for money.

The combat is expectedly downgraded, which I don’t begrudge, it’s actually fun in its own way except for the bullshit leveling where you have to buy move scrolls which are tied to gatcha ball collections or absurdly expensive. If you don’t have a move equipped you can’t level up. It’s insane that this made it into the final product.

If they had literally maintained the original systems this would be an objectively better game.

Sounds like you didn’t even play the game because you can easily raise enough money to progress the story by playing Flower, Sun, Wind, Moon and betting on the color the fortune teller tells you to. Bet the max 1000 or 1500 and you can have upwards of 40,000 tokens in 20 minutes. Trade those tokens in for jewels and sell them at the pawn shop. Payday.

The endurance really isn’t an issue if you trained, but yeah, it should probably be axed. No one likes strings.

The fighting system is good, it just needs refinement. It also needs throws and better falling animations. And, no, not all move scrolls are tied to capsule toy collections. You can get them through side quests, gambling, collecting herbs (which is easy) or finding Chobu-Chans in Niaowu. Again, it sounds like you didn’t even play the game.

The game itself is Shenmue through and through and very enjoyable if you’re into the type of game it is.

 

[iknifaugood]

Sounds like you didn’t even play the game because you can easily raise enough money to progress the story by playing Flower, Sun, Wind, Moon and betting on the color the fortune teller tells you to. Bet the max 1000 or 1500 and you can have upwards of 40,000 tokens in 20 minutes. Trade those tokens in for jewels and sell them at the pawn shop. Payday.

i assure you I played the game. I save scummed my way through lucky hit because it has the best payout, just like I did in S2, except S3 requires so much more money, gambling is less lucrative, and thus it takes way longer. Schleping to the fortune teller and back for a minor advantage but less of a payout wasn’t something I thought was worth it but it doesn’t hide the fact that the economy is totally broken and grinding for money isn’t fun.

The fighting system is good, it just needs refinement. It also needs throws and better falling animations. And, no, not all move scrolls are tied to capsule toy collections. You can get them through side quests, gambling, collecting herbs (which is easy) or finding Chobu-Chans in Niaowu. Again, it sounds like you didn’t even play the game.

Collecting random items, completing side quests, and paying crazy sums of money is not something that should be required to get moves that are required to level up. Again, I assure you I played the game. What does any of that bullshit add to the game? How is that an improvement on simply buying a move for a reasonable amount of money?

The game itself is Shenmue through and through and very enjoyable if you’re into the type of game it is.

To me the appeal of Shenmue is tied directly to the story, and the gameplay serves the story. Because S3 is so weak in that regard it really didn’t feel like Shenmue to me. As I mentioned I also disliked most of the modifications made to the gameplay systems.

 

[I Got Sriracha In My DNA]

Well for one I like Shenmue 3 because I have garbage taste. I just couldn't face the truth. I'm really glad you were able to register in this forum to really enlighten us to the fact.

Come, lets talk about other things that you were so perceptive about.

 

[iknifaugood]

Well for one I like Shenmue 3 because I have garbage taste. I just couldn't face the truth. I'm really glad you were able to register in this forum to really enlighten us to the fact.

Those are simply my criticisms of the game compared to its predecessors. I love S2, it's one of my favorite games because of how well its story is told, how much it makes you care about the characters, and how many memorable moments it crams into its play time. It has "boring" moments, but to me those are not the draw of the game. I think Shenmue has the potential to have the kind of fresh take on the "hero's journey" story that we haven't seen since Harry Potter or Star Wars (which is probably why Sega took such a gamble on the franchise in the first place).

So to me it's simple, S3 is either lacking in the story department as a way to court new players, in which case it's a failure because it doubles down on the "boring", alienating gameplay with tons of grinding, NPCs that aren't helpful, huge areas where nothing happens and a dearth of memorable characters or moments. Or it's a game for the fans, in which case I (a fan) consider it a failure because it barely moves the story forward and fundamentally alters every single gameplay system from the previous games for the worse (and lacks memorable moments and characters). I legitimately don't understand how someone who loved the first two games could love this one beyond the mere fact that it's "Shenmue 3".

This is all especially annoying to me because I was curious how the story would end and it seems that's now in jeopardy again...