Whether Suzuki and his team will take Shenmue fans' advice to make Shenmue 4

A

Arcadio

Joined
Feb 22, 2020
Location
CHINA
Favourite title
Shenmue II
Currently playing
Xenoblade
(Excuse me for my poor English)
It is certain that Suzuki will make the Shenmue 4, but there are still many problems.Shenmue 4 certainly won't have the same funding as Shenmue 3 unless Suzuki is willing to start crowdfunding on KS again(Suzuki has said he didn't want KS again).Shenmue 4 must make some changes or it will fail again.I don't think Shenmue has a lot of money right now, and the development team is not as strong as AM2 was.Suzuki and his team should make some changes based on what fans and players really want.They should remove some of the cumbersome parts of the game and enhance some of the parts that players enjoy. After all, their money has made it impossible for them to make the game as perfect as 1 and 2 .

For example, the whole dubbing, which is a huge expense, can be removed and only the voice of some of the main characters can be retained. Because of the particularity of Shenmue, its dubbing workload is unimaginable.The truth is we only care about a small number of the main characters and RYO. Other characters can use vertical drawing, text and simple voice dubbing like Persona5 and Yakuza.Reduce the number of secondary NPCS and the number of text to improve text quality(The "I don't know" feedback tends to drain the patience of the average player ).

The money saved could be used in other areas, such as the highly specialized cinematographic narrative subsections in Shenmue1 and 2. Enrich the story and characterization, such as fangmei.Most important of all is the combat system, the battle of shenmue 1 and 2 is an art .If the combat system is good, many scenarios can be driven by combat (I felt very nervous and excited in every battle with 1 and 2 and I felt very tired in the battle with 3 )I've heard that their hardware and motion capture devices are not very good, and I don't know if that will improve in the future.After all, hardware replacement is a huge amount of money and has a huge impact on game development .

Finally,the most important question I want to ask is how much can the Suzuki team see after all we've discussed in the dojo.It is still in the early stages of semu 4 development and there is still time to correct the undecided development direction. Maybe We can do a questionnaire and give it back to the Suzuki team.Suzuki doesn't play games but we do. I think a detailed questionnaire will be very helpful to Shenmue 4.
 
I think part of the problem with S3 was that Yu was trying too hard to please the fans and that lead to us getting a watered down version of his vision.

I think most of us want to see the series play out as per Yu’s vision rather than it becoming some hybrid fan collaboration. On top of that, I think we all have different views on where the story should be going. Some of us didn’t like the mystical elements and others were angry that they were toned back. Some of us aren’t too bothered about the mini games while others seem desperate to see them return. I could go on.

If I were Yu, I might glance over the forums to get an idea of which ideas in S3 landed and which needed a bit more refinement, but reaching out to the fans (especially on a public forum) is a dangerous game. I’d also be quietly working away on S4 without letting anybody know and am hoping that this is what’s already happening.
 
I'd agree with @tomboz above. While I enjoyed Shenmue III and the world etc it didn't push the story along as much as mnay would have liked.

I think Yu Suzuki knows this and would be wary of this for a Shenmue 4. Shenmue 3 was for the fans, to get the series going again. Now that it is and hopefully Shenmue 4 planning is now underway, I would want Yu Suzuki to follow his vision, of course being aware of what worked in 3 but ultimately I want the full vision of the creator. Shenmue 1 and 2 were exactly that and are 2 of the best games ever created. Now of course budgets etc will play a part in how Shenmue 4 is executed but if the story telling is in line with Shenmue 2 that will do us nicely I think.
 
In a word: I think S3 suffered because YSNet tried to appease the diverse fan base as much as possible. I like S3 for what it is, but if S4 comes, I certainly hope there's less attention given to the impossibly reconcilable views of the fans.

Above all, I hope there is no Kickstarter for this one. While it stirred up excitement, it also demonstrated the entitlement of (many) fans. With a longtime series, it's hard enough to balance nostalgia and innovation, but it's even more difficult when one uses a medium which makes people feel like armchair developers.
(I don't hate Kickstarter as such, but it has its particular vices with video games.)

Second, I agree with those who suggest they tone down the fan service and focus more on what YS desires (plot, jobs, et al.)
An example, however contentious: I really wish they could've included the soda machine interaction from the first two games (it feels uniquely Shenmue and can be mirrored anywhere, like the capsule toys); by contrast, I wish they didn't include the forklift. First, all it managed to do was remind me of how anemic it was in comparison to S1. Moreover, it didn't feel like an organic inclusion. It's as if Niaowu, primarily a city, just had a little harbor slapped on the side. (So too, Delin's brother felt forced; contrast what's-his-face in the Yang Tin Apartments, which made more sense contextually).

Would some growl if there were no forklift? Sure. Was it worth including it in the game over, say, the forklift mini game that was to be in the arcades? I doubt it. (Of course, I say all of this as a fan, so...:unsure::sneaky:)
 
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tomboz said:
I think most of us want to see the series play out as per Yu’s vision rather than it becoming some hybrid fan collaboration.
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I concur, while I think there’s plenty of legitimate fan criticisms I hope Suzuki and team take to heart, for better or worse this is his creation. Therefore I hope he delivers of the story and experience he’s always envisioned that keep him striving to complete series.
 
I don't agree that S3 faults are because he was trying to appease fans.
YS is a programmer and game designer, he put gameplay first in S3, Shenmue is the only storydriven game he ever did (and also has a great emphasis on gameplay).
I don't know why people think that YS cares that much about the story, or that having a combat system or minigames or gatchapon are "fan service" (I guess the forklift could be called fanservice/memeservice).
The guy is the father of VF, I don't think that trying to make a new fighting system was something he hated to do while he would have preferred instead be writing.
 
I don't want fans having input, I just want Yu to focus on what's important and develop as if Shenmue 4 is the last one.

If that means he needs to cut to the end of the story, then do so. And if Shenmue 4 turns out to be good, then go back and fill in the story with later iterations.
 
I mean no disrespect to the fans here or on social media, but I honestly don't give a shit what fans think would make for the perfect Shenmue IV. I did not become a fan or sign up here at the dojo because of the fans vision for Shenmue. I am a fan of Suzuki's vision full stop, not this development by committee bullshit.

That being said, I am with @GhostTrick on this one, in that Suzuki should at least acknowledge fan feedback, but what you should not do is give fans complete power over Shenmue. Because that is a slippery slope that will satisfy no one.
 
Nigel said:
Moreover, it didn't feel like an organic inclusion. It's as if Niaowu, primarily a city, just had a little harbor slapped on the side. (So too, :unsure::sneaky:)
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Whereas I agree that the forklift felt tacked on in order to please fans (I’m pretty sure Yu has said as much), Niaowu featuring a harbour feels organic enough to me. Especially as it’s based on Fenghuang which is built on the banks of a river, so having a harbour does not feel out of place at all to me. I wouldn’t consider Niaowu to be a city at all.
 
I think that if Shenmue 4 becomes a reality or if it is already in development, that Yu Suzuki and his team should at least take into account what the fan base liked and didn't like about Shenmue 3.
I believe that this information would provide them with a good foundation for the development of Shenmue 4.
I'm also of the opinion that Yu Suzuki should maintain his primary vision of the Shenmue story to the end and not let it be influenced by anyone else.
The best fan advice I would give to Yu Suzuki and his team for the development of Shenmue 4 is for it to have A GOOD BALANCE BETWEEN COMBAT / SIDE ACTIVITIES AND STORYTELLING.
 
Personally, while I didn't like the direction S3 went story-wise one bit, I still think fans should have no say on the content of the future games. I think Ghost Trick is right, Yu should absolutely acknowledge and understand the criticism fans have about S3 though. Perhaps even moreso he should think about what it was that made S1 and 2 great.

At the end of the day, it's actually no big deal. If S4 will be as weak as S3 in terms of storytelling, plot progression and characters, I'll just check out from the series after S4.

No big deal. You don't like one game, don't buy it, play something else. Personally, I have always been in Shenmue for the story of the man from a far Eastern land across the sea, since the first time I started playing S1. Now, if S1 and 2 had me wrongfully believe that story was going to be more interesting than it is, that's my problem.

Until then, I'll do what I can to help Yu get S4 made, and I want it to be Yu's vision, nothing else.

If S4 doesn't deliver on the story front then the series probably wasn't going to be about the story the prologue to all three games teases. Then it probably isn't for me from here on out, but that won't change the fact that I will still consider S1 and 2 the best games I have ever played.
 
Sergeynest said:
I think that if Shenmue 4 becomes a reality or if it is already in development, that Yu Suzuki and his team should at least take into account what the fan base liked and didn't like about Shenmue 3.
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The problem with that is there's people saying Shenmue 3 is a great game and exactly what they imagined all this time. There's a really extreme contrast of fans who think the game is not good, and fans who think the game is amazing. So who is he to listen to?

hyo_razuki said:
Perhaps even moreso he should think about what it was that made S1 and 2 great.
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Hopefully he recognizes that it's the story that brings everything together. Chopping wood, fishing, trading lamps, arcade games and capsule toys.... these things are all meaningless if there isn't good story telling at the core of it. Even walking around and talking to residents has no meaning if none of them can present a small clue on what to do next or who you should talk to.

I loved Darts in S1 and S2, but that wasn't the focus. That was a time killer as I waited for the next clue to be unraveled in the story. Hopefully we see a return to the story being the focus, and then everything else being built around it.
 
hyo_razuki said:
At the end of the day, it's actually no big deal. If S4 will be as weak as S3 in terms of storytelling, plot progression and characters, I'll just check out from the series after S4.
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hyo_razuki said:
Now, if S1 and 2 had me wrongfully believe that story was going to be more interesting than it is, that's my problem.
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This is how I feel basically. I'm at the point where I'm starting to think the story was never that interesting and it was my fault for thinking it was.

I still want to give him another chance though but we'll see.

It does feel like Suzuki isn't that concerned with delivering what I would like out of a Shenmue game. I want to say he's out of touch with fans but after reading so many Shenmue 3 reviews and talking with people on this forum I don't think that's the case. I think I'm the one who's out of touch with what Shenmue is and just wanted something different.
 
First and foremost Suzuki should do what he wants and he should succeed or fail based on that. However, if he is allowing fans to influence him, then it should be in the form of keeping his story straight (ie: he forgot that Xiuying and Ziming were orphans, and forgot about the mysterious scroll). I don't think using fans to keep track of established story points is a bad thing (even GRRM uses one for his books); 20+ years is a long time and a lot to remember.
 
Yokosuka said:
Can you develop please?
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I don't think it's necessarily fair to say that he forgot Xiuying was an orphan. He had to think about it, which I think is understandable, since he hadn't really been working on Shenmue for over ten years at that point.
 
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