Why kickstarter to make S4? What about SEGA?

[Dmitriy1]

There was no chance of Sega making a new mainline Shenmue game itself unless Shenmue 3 sold gangbusters, ie, at the very least 1.5 million. I really doubt it did that well.

Crowd funding is a non starter. A lot of backers (fans and those who just wanted to support a niche but beloved game) backed the game thinking Shenmue 3 would somehow end the story, yet instead it barely had any story at all. Kickstarter, indiegogo, gofundme, Fig, campaigns would fail in todays climate due in part to this.

Not to mention many things promised in the initial crowd funding strech goals did not come to pass, despite them being reached, and that may have soured any potential backers for Shenmue 4.

The best bet is to hope Yu Suzuki secures funds from Deep Silver, Shibuya Productions or Epic(lol) to make a sequel.

I really don't understand after using Epic these months, WTF is their problem with it. It's the company that created the engine, it helped people 15 years away from this sort of work create a beautiful game. A game with a story too. As much story at least as Shenmue 1 had. I play Ancestors on it too, another game made with their big help, so it's an exclusive on their platform for a year. If a new kickstarter does lets say 2 million, it's still help towards the end game. Stretch goals included some stupid real time strategy in Shenmue. Thank god I got to spin kick 20-30 people in many ways instead. That felt so damned much better than a pseudo RTS mini game would have! It soured pretentious idiots only IMO. Fans got a great game in S3. Playable on Win PC as promised, in fact getting extra early content that PS4 never even got.

 

[bèlinho]

A possible solution, while also bringing Sega to the table, would be episodic releases.

I think it will be easy to realise that there's an audience with a bit of money in the pocket, but no mass appeal. Só the strategy should be selling the game to the core audience as many times as possible. Maybe even with a bit of dlc or micro transactions.

From my little understanding of the whole chapters situation, I think 1 chapter=1 location. So, with Sega's funding, build a location, Yu can go wild with every bit of filler he wants, maybe it would even be required, incorporate everything about that location, and then sell it for 30$.

 

[iknifaugood]

I think the only way to realistically make S4 is to charge the fans a premium. Shenmue is an expensive game to make and it's got too small an audience. The Kickstarter averaged around $85/person, so if they bumped that up to $100 and adopted a service model, I think it could work. It would also help if Suzuki was more transparent with how much content is forthcoming (ie: What chapter are we on? How many locations are left? How long is each game going to be? etc.) so he could avoid negative press and blow back in the future.

 

[Budgiecat]

There are a lot of factors that go into this decision. 3D has more mass appeal than 2D, just like 2D sprites have more mass appeal than pixel art. Just the way it goes (broadly speaking). It's definitely easier to make something like, say, Skullgirls in 2D (crazy animation, lots of warping monster parts etc.). But for a game like Street Fighter? Where most of the characters are human and you want to sell a bunch of costumes as DLC? 3D is a no brainer; it would take forever to animate different costumes in 2D. On the whole though, across all genres, 3D is more expensive because it requires more people across more disciplines.

R.I.P. Metal Slug

Even if you take the lucrative financial benefit idea of costume DLC out of the equation, for fighting games, 2D was def more expensive than 3D for fighting games. KoF never really went on the DLC bandwagon as much as Capcom did but they did opt for 3D over 2D and thats because it costs them less to do so. Even KoF XII which was 2D, was modeled in 3D first to make the process of 2D less expensive and time consuming

 

[Budgiecat]

I think the only way to realistically make S4 is to charge the fans a premium. Shenmue is an expensive game to make and it's got too small an audience. The Kickstarter averaged around $85/person, so if they bumped that up to $100 and adopted a service model, I think it could work.




avoid negative press and blow back in the future.

That.....would invite even more negative press

 

[iknifaugood]

Even if you take the lucrative financial benefit idea of costume DLC out of the equation, for fighting games, 2D was def more expensive than 3D for fighting games. KoF never really went on the DLC bandwagon as much as Capcom did but they did opt for 3D over 2D and thats because it costs them less to do so. Even KoF XII which was 2D, was modeled in 3D first to make the process of 2D less expensive and time consuming

KOF is an exception because they went for the pixel art style at an incredibly high resolution. They basically did everything the hardest way possible, same thing with SF3. The art for games like Hollow Knight and Castle Crashers are made by basically one guy. You'll never find a 3D game where all the art assets were made by one guy (except Minecraft).

 

[iknifaugood]

That.....would invite even more negative press

If he asks for more money in any way, shape, or form it will invite negative press. If he's open and honest about the situation (expensive game, not a lot of fans, X number of chapters coming) then I think he can avoid the negative press, especially if the fans are on board for it. I don't see any way he'll get the money to make another big 3D game otherwise.

 

[ShenmueTree]

If he asks for more money in any way, shape, or form it will invite negative press. If he's open and honest about the situation (expensive game, not a lot of fans, X number of chapters coming) then I think he can avoid the negative press, especially if the fans are on board for it. I don't see any way he'll get the money to make another big 3D game otherwise.

Being honest wont make anyone but the most die hard of die hard fans want to help fund another game. And thats not good enough.

 

[iknifaugood]

Being honest wont make anyone but the most die hard of die hard fans want to help fund another game. And thats not good enough.

I agree. But it's the best shot. No publisher is going to give millions of dollars to a three time loser, another Kickstarter is doomed to fail (the original KS had nostalgia going for it), and if Suzuki could fund the development himself, I'm sure he would have by now. I really don't see another option besides either dramatically cutting the scope of the game to make development cheaper/faster (which would be a waste of the assets and engine they just developed).

 

[Budgiecat]

KOF is an exception because they went for the pixel art style at an incredibly high resolution. They basically did everything the hardest way possible, same thing with SF3. The art for games like Hollow Knight and Castle Crashers are made by basically one guy. You'll never find a 3D game where all the art assets were made by one guy (except Minecraft).

Shaolin vs Wutang on Steam says hi
Literally made by one guy.

Also Lost Soul Aside (before he was picked up by Sony)

 

[Budgiecat]

If he asks for more money in any way, shape, or form it will invite negative press. If he's open and honest about the situation (expensive game, not a lot of fans, X number of chapters coming) then I think he can avoid the negative press, especially if the fans are on board for it. I don't see any way he'll get the money to make another big 3D game otherwise.

Kickstarter shouldn't be needed again. That would defeat its original purpose. To 'kickstart' the project.
Kickstarter was to prove to publishers and investors that there is indeed people interested still in this series.
Its a put your money where your mouth is and prove it then we'll help you situation.
So it was done and it was proven. while breaking KS records.
This is why after the KS, you got Deep Silver, Koch Media, Shibuya Productions and Epic involved besides Sony.

 

[iknifaugood]

Shaolin vs Wutang on Steam says hi
Literally made by one guy.

Also Lost Soul Aside (before he was picked up by Sony)

Not to take anything away from those guys because they're both crazy impressive games, but not all of those assets were custom created; there are tons of asset packs from the UE marketplace (Shaolin vs Wutang MIGHT be possible because of the limited scope and long development time). Either way, if your argument is still that it's easier/cheaper to make a game in 3D as opposed to 2D, you're wrong in like 99% of cases. There's a reason indie games favor 2D visuals and AAA games favor 3D visuals.

 

[iknifaugood]

Kickstarter shouldn't be needed again. That would defeat its original purpose. To 'kickstart' the project.
Kickstarter was to prove to publishers and investors that there is indeed people interested still in this series.
Its a put your money where your mouth is and prove it then we'll help you situation.
So it was done and it was proven. while breaking KS records.
This is why after the KS, you got Deep Silver, Koch Media, Shibuya Productions and Epic involved besides Sony.

Agreed, but since YS didn't secure sequel funding while breaking KS records, he's going to need money again if those partners don't think it's worth it to completely fund the project without $7M from crowdfunding (and why would they?).

 

[Budgiecat]

Agreed, but since YS didn't secure sequel funding while breaking KS records, he's going to need money again if those partners don't think it's worth it to completely fund the project without $7M from crowdfunding (and why would they?).

Because the 7 million proved that there's a fanbase out there that was willing to put ther money where their mouth is.

So it doesnt need to be proven again.

 

[iknifaugood]

Because the 7 million proved that there's a fanbase out there that was willing to put ther money where their mouth is.

So it doesnt need to be proven again.

Yes and of that $7M, it worked out to about $85/person, hence my argument that S4 should charge a premium. Say for the sake of argument that a publisher gives YS $7M and then charges $60 for S4--they will lose about $3M if every single backer buys it at full price.

 

[Budgiecat]

Yes and of that $7M, it worked out to about $85/person, hence my argument that S4 should charge a premium. Say for the sake of argument that a publisher gives YS $7M and then charges $60 for S4--they will lose about $3M if every single backer buys it at full price.

Yes but you're also factoring out the DLC, the added newer fans that bought retail, etc etc.

I mean you go to stores like Gamestop and you already see preorders from upcoming games like Dragonball Kakarot for $199.99 or Cyberpunk for $249.99 (besides their base $60). Or even on PSN for FF VIIR, the preorder is like $79.99.
So what you're suggesting isnt something that isnt already done by the masses in the industry now. More and more, companies are pushing to charge more for games in a slow and steady process.

 

[iknifaugood]

I mean you go to stores like Gamestop and you already see preorders from upcoming games like Dragonball Kakarot for $199.99 or Cyberpunk for $249.99 (besides their base $60). Or even on PSN for FF VIIR, the preorder is like $79.99.
So what you're suggesting isnt something that isnt already done by the masses in the industry now. More and more, companies are pushing to charge more for games in a slow and steady process.

Those are AAA games with massive budgets that can command the price. S3 is already sold at a discounted price ($59.99 as opposed to $79.99) because it isn't a AAA game. Gamestop isn't going to be rushing to sell physical copies of S4 if S3 doesn't meet the demand and that's assuming that a publisher is even crazy enough to risk gambling almost $10M to develop S4. At best they'll look at $7M as their top and fund development for around $3M.

 

[Budgiecat]

Those are AAA games with massive budgets that can command the price. S3 is already sold at a discounted price ($59.99 as opposed to $79.99) because it isn't a AAA game. Gamestop isn't going to be rushing to sell physical copies of S4 if S3 doesn't meet the demand and that's assuming that a publisher is even crazy enough to risk gambling almost $10M to develop S4. At best they'll look at $7M as their top and fund development for around $3M.

$59.99 isn't a 'discounted price'.

It's the current industry standard

"discount price" would be what it was going for on Black Friday at Best Buy and other stores ($34.99 with free $19.99 steelback)

The $79.99 is a premium price as well as those $199.99 and $249.99
Thats the creeping sales strategy companies are trying to infuse to get around not raising the industry standard price of $59.99
In addition to season passes, DLC, microtransactions, loot boxes, and expansions

Also, plenty of non AAA games that are sold for $59.99

Dont you think its pretty crazy how you can go into a store and now get God of War or Tekken for $20, but non AAA games like Sword Art Online. Punchline, Shining Resonance, and many Koei games run for $60 still?

 

[Budgiecat]

Not to take anything away from those guys because they're both crazy impressive games, but not all of those assets were custom created; there are tons of asset packs from the UE marketplace (Shaolin vs Wutang MIGHT be possible because of the limited scope and long development time). Either way, if your argument is still that it's easier/cheaper to make a game in 3D as opposed to 2D, you're wrong in like 99% of cases. There's a reason indie games favor 2D visuals and AAA games favor 3D visuals.

because it sells more (3D for AAA) and because those 2D indies are going for that retro pixel nostalgia which is trending. Trending also sells. If you have limited funds why chase after what the big boys are doing when you can still make money on the retro pixel bandwagon? Worked for Underale, Shovel Knight and Minecraft...

However, SNK would still be doing 2D if it were truly 'cheaper'. Its not. Not in today's HD era and not for games that require +1000 sprites per charater

 

[iknifaugood]

However, SNK would still be doing 2D if it were truly 'cheaper'. Its not. Not in today's HD era and not for games that require +1000 sprites per charater

Ok but you’re just wrong. Pixel art (what SNK and Capcom are famous for) is extremely laborious. So is trying to do 3D like LA Noir. That does not make 2D more expensive than 3D, hence why indie studios make 2D games for hundreds of thousands of dollars and AAA devs make games that cost hundreds of millions. And that’s just factoring in the art side, it’s exponentially more expensive to script and code in 3D. You’re talking to a game developer here, I know what I’m talking about. If you think it’s cheaper to make a 3D game then I invite you to give it a try.