Why kickstarter to make S4? What about SEGA?

[JoshTehKing20]

Play it again, disc 3 is constant forklift race, then the minigame with forklift. There is a neat QTE sequence on the motorbike, lots of just fighting almost getting boring. Questioning in the harbor is wasting time. Only running the clock matters. Yes, The whole Shenmue 1 has very little story. It has a neat puzzle having you go to an antique shop, OK so S3 has one with you needing another shop. Same for all the points. S1 has you get to know Master Chen and his son, OK so 3 has 2 ultra neat masters you learn from. Fun quest for one of them, funny, cool IMO. Almost out of my favorite films. The story in S3 is told so much more it's crazy compared to S1. The point of S1 is just going away from home. Hate S3 all you want, it has you know way more by the end than S1 did. S3 is bigger, S3 has martial arts on demand for hours at a time, and not just the dumb 70 man battle either, where it's in a bad area with camera problems. And not only after you beat the game either. None of the fights have the stupid camera problems S2 had either, god I remember some still... Replay S1, see all the negatives it had. S3 is a huge improvement IMO.

Im sorry but I honestly think you are trolling with this post?

 

[Budgiecat]

I thought in Shenmue 3 the fighting was smooth, way better than 1&2, or VF3 I played later on in the 2000s. Shenmue made me find it and play it, I know with most it's the reverse. Fighting games were not too interesting to me by then, if they just were arcade fighters. I do think if VF6 used this system, plus added throws, plus improved physics as far as impact, and especially from throws! Shenmue 4 could really shine. He also could, and should use chars from Shenmue games in it as secret costumes, or such other things. Drive the interest up. Will it happen? Probably not, but could have been neat.

The thing with Shenmue 1 & 2 is they used VF3 engine but due to the stress of the semi open world, the game ran at 30fps not the 60fps of VF3.
Also, VF3 introduced 3D movement in VF but only through an evade button.
Shenmue 1 & 2 more or less emulated this with the evade button but at times, like the 70 man battle, you could run around (though running would not replenish your health).
You could not run in VF3 of course.
VF3 came out in 1996.
A year after its release in arcades, Sega gave a preview of VF3's new moves in Fighters Megamix for Sega Saturn, in addition to a bit of 3D movement but only limited to some moves. Sega was working on developing a chip so that VF3 could be released on the Saturn but ultimately they scrapped that idea just like they scrapped the idea of putting Shenmue 1 & 2 on Saturn.

Anyways, just like how the creator of the original Street Fighter: Nishitani, left Capcom in the late 80's and moved over to SNK to create Fatal Fury, Art of Fighting, and King of Fighters, so did Yu Suzuki's game designer, Seichi Ishii, who did the game design for VF, as he moved over to Namco and was its game designer for Tekken. This is why Tekken shares some similarities to VF.
He then went onto create his own company, Dream Factory, which his first game, Tobal #1, came out in Sept 1996, which was the same month VF3 came to arcades.

Anyways, Tobal #1 was Ishii's attempt to evolve 3D fighting beyond what he did with VF and Tekken.
Keep in mind at this point in time, Tekken was still on its 2nd game and still moved in 2D (2.5D is the proper term: a 3D fighter that moves on a 2D plane). Tekken 3, which finally pushed the series completely to 3D movement, would not arrive until March 1997, a year later. Also Takara/Tamsoft's Battle Arena Toshinden, which had come out in 1995, was a 3D fighter that did have 3D movement but only as a dodge roll. So you could not walk or run in 3D.

So the thing that was different about Tobal #1, than VF3 or Tekken 2, was that its movement was completely in 3D
You could walk around your opponent freely.
Throws and throw reversals were also more advanced. Even more advanced than Tekken 7 and VF5 to this day since there was a grapple and grapple counter mechanic put in as well.
Hit animations were more descript like low kicks to the shin which would cause the opponent to grab their leg in pain.
Just Frame attacks were introduced etc
Then Tobal 2 came in 1997 and further evolved things.

Ehrgeiz was another game he made in conjuction with Square and also published by Namco in arcades.
This had a free running mechanic and charge moves. By this time though, Tekken 3 had come out and taken everyone by storm so this game wasnt even localized.

Then DreamFactory made a 3D beat em up called The Bouncer for PS2 but Square rushed them to put it out as it was one of their first releases for the console (Driving Emotion Type-S was their first and that wasnt very good). So there was a falling out with them and Square and it was the last game they made for them.

After this, they made a few other action games for PS2 and a fighting game for Xbox which Microsoft published called Kakuto Chojin. It got in trouble for using a religious Muslim chant in one of the songs that offended people because it was associated to a character in the game that was an assassin, so the game was pulled off the shelves.
Since then I have heard nothing from Dream Factory.
Shame considering the history Seichi Ishii had in the fighting game development history....perhaps Yu should have sought him out for Shenmue 3 who knows

Also VF3 was still being developed for home console as I said and would not arrive until late 98 Japan and 99 for the West on the DC, which was kinda eclipsed by Namco's Soul Calibur on DC and even Tecmo's Dead or Alive 2 (due to its excellent tag team system while VF3 only had team battle).
Anyways, we know the DC died as well as the Saturn so theres that but Sega had planned to put VF4 on it but that didnt go over.
I guess because Microsoft published the DoA series on their console as an exclusive prob prevented VF4 from coming to Xbox so Sega put it on PS2.
Though Im not sure why they didnt bother putting Shenmue 1 & 2 on PS2. I guess Microsoft paid for exclusivity.
Anyways, yeah if the cards had been played right, Shenmue 3 woulda been a 6th gen console release probably around 2004 or 2005 or something, and probably woulda used VF4 engine which woulda been smoother gameplay. Though I think it still woulda been locked to 30fps and not 60fps due to the nature of the semi open world game being taxing on the system.
Perhaps at that point, Yu might have tried to implement more 3D movement like we have now.

Around this time, Tekken 4 and then Tekken 5 came out. Tekken 4 tried to make the movement more fluid as well as add uneven terrain like VF3 did, but people did not take well to that game so they regressed some of those ideas in Tekken 5 as well as 6, and now we're at Tekken 7 which still plays like Tekken 3 movement wise to this day which is basically still mostly 2D'ish gameplay with minimal 3D side step movement to evade or use evade moves.
Consider a game like Toshinden in Nintendo Wii, a 3D fighting game no relation to the original series, but it had very fast 3D evasion where you could arc around the back of your opponent. Kinda similar to Ryo's body check move in this game which is cinematic only. Tekken cannot move like that still to this day. And most players are fine with that because they're used to it.

A game by Namco called Urban Reign, which was more of an Arena style brawler/fighter, was more geared as a free 3D movement game. Some say this is the path Tekken should have went but that game was a one hit wonder and never got a sequel or rerelease. It did have two Tekken characters in it as guests though. Also it was a very challenging game.

Anyways, I'm sure if Yu Suzuki had a bigger budget he could have hired more martial artists and a motion capture studio rented out to do proper moves for the game but he had to work with what he had plus his team was smaller, he had to outsource some work to Indian teams, and they didnt have the experience Sega AM2 has which Yu was not able to use.
But we'll see if things change or get better in the future if he is allowed to continue the series.
All in all I feel he's got the right idea of 3D fighting: it should be actual 3D; not just look like 3D but play mostly 2D with some minimal 3D side step movement.

 

[Dmitriy1]

The thing with Shenmue 1 & 2 is they used VF3 engine but due to the stress of the semi open world, the game ran at 30fps not the 60fps of VF3.
Also, VF3 introduced 3D movement in VF but only through an evade button.
Shenmue 1 & 2 more or less emulated this with the evade button but at times, like the 70 man battle, you could run around (though running would not replenish your health).
You could not run in VF3 of course.
VF3 came out in 1996.
A year after its release in arcades, Sega gave a preview of VF3's new moves in Fighters Megamix for Sega Saturn, in addition to a bit of 3D movement but only limited to some moves. Sega was working on developing a chip so that VF3 could be released on the Saturn but ultimately they scrapped that idea just like they scrapped the idea of putting Shenmue 1 & 2 on Saturn.

Anyways, just like how the creator of the original Street Fighter: Nishitani, left Capcom in the late 80's and moved over to SNK to create Fatal Fury, Art of Fighting, and King of Fighters, so did Yu Suzuki's game designer, Seichi Ishii, who did the game design for VF, as he moved over to Namco and was its game designer for Tekken. This is why Tekken shares some similarities to VF.
He then went onto create his own company, Dream Factory, which his first game, Tobal #1, came out in Sept 1996, which was the same month VF3 came to arcades.

Anyways, Tobal #1 was Ishii's attempt to evolve 3D fighting beyond what he did with VF and Tekken.
Keep in mind at this point in time, Tekken was still on its 2nd game and still moved in 2D (2.5D is the proper term: a 3D fighter that moves on a 2D plane). Tekken 3, which finally pushed the series completely to 3D movement, would not arrive until March 1997, a year later. Also Takara/Tamsoft's Battle Arena Toshinden, which had come out in 1995, was a 3D fighter that did have 3D movement but only as a dodge roll. So you could not walk or run in 3D.

So the thing that was different about Tobal #1, than VF3 or Tekken 2, was that its movement was completely in 3D
You could walk around your opponent freely.
Throws and throw reversals were also more advanced. Even more advanced than Tekken 7 and VF5 to this day since there was a grapple and grapple counter mechanic put in as well.
Hit animations were more descript like low kicks to the shin which would cause the opponent to grab their leg in pain.
Just Frame attacks were introduced etc
Then Tobal 2 came in 1997 and further evolved things.

Ehrgeiz was another game he made in conjuction with Square and also published by Namco in arcades.
This had a free running mechanic and charge moves. By this time though, Tekken 3 had come out and taken everyone by storm so this game wasnt even localized.

Then DreamFactory made a 3D beat em up called The Bouncer for PS2 but Square rushed them to put it out as it was one of their first releases for the console (Driving Emotion Type-S was their first and that wasnt very good). So there was a falling out with them and Square and it was the last game they made for them.

After this, they made a few other action games for PS2 and a fighting game for Xbox which Microsoft published called Kakuto Chojin. It got in trouble for using a religious Muslim chant in one of the songs that offended people because it was associated to a character in the game that was an assassin, so the game was pulled off the shelves.
Since then I have heard nothing from Dream Factory.
Shame considering the history Seichi Ishii had in the fighting game development history....perhaps Yu should have sought him out for Shenmue 3 who knows

Also VF3 was still being developed for home console as I said and would not arrive until late 98 Japan and 99 for the West on the DC, which was kinda eclipsed by Namco's Soul Calibur on DC and even Tecmo's Dead or Alive 2 (due to its excellent tag team system while VF3 only had team battle).
Anyways, we know the DC died as well as the Saturn so theres that but Sega had planned to put VF4 on it but that didnt go over.
I guess because Microsoft published the DoA series on their console as an exclusive prob prevented VF4 from coming to Xbox so Sega put it on PS2.
Though Im not sure why they didnt bother putting Shenmue 1 & 2 on PS2. I guess Microsoft paid for exclusivity.
Anyways, yeah if the cards had been played right, Shenmue 3 woulda been a 6th gen console release probably around 2004 or 2005 or something, and probably woulda used VF4 engine which woulda been smoother gameplay. Though I think it still woulda been locked to 30fps and not 60fps due to the nature of the semi open world game being taxing on the system.
Perhaps at that point, Yu might have tried to implement more 3D movement like we have now.

Around this time, Tekken 4 and then Tekken 5 came out. Tekken 4 tried to make the movement more fluid as well as add uneven terrain like VF3 did, but people did not take well to that game so they regressed some of those ideas in Tekken 5 as well as 6, and now we're at Tekken 7 which still plays like Tekken 3 movement wise to this day which is basically still mostly 2D'ish gameplay with minimal 3D side step movement to evade or use evade moves.
Consider a game like Toshinden in Nintendo Wii, a 3D fighting game no relation to the original series, but it had very fast 3D evasion where you could arc around the back of your opponent. Kinda similar to Ryo's body check move in this game which is cinematic only. Tekken cannot move like that still to this day. And most players are fine with that because they're used to it.

A game by Namco called Urban Reign, which was more of an Arena style brawler/fighter, was more geared as a free 3D movement game. Some say this is the path Tekken should have went but that game was a one hit wonder and never got a sequel or rerelease. It did have two Tekken characters in it as guests though. Also it was a very challenging game.

Anyways, I'm sure if Yu Suzuki had a bigger budget he could have hired more martial artists and a motion capture studio rented out to do proper moves for the game but he had to work with what he had plus his team was smaller, he had to outsource some work to Indian teams, and they didnt have the experience Sega AM2 has which Yu was not able to use.
But we'll see if things change or get better in the future if he is allowed to continue the series.
All in all I feel he's got the right idea of 3D fighting: it should be actual 3D; not just look like 3D but play mostly 2D with some minimal 3D side step movement.

All I know is, Shenmue 3 became a real 3D for me. Though while playing Tekken I think 3, there was that same side step, it even was there on SNES in that Fatal fury, if I remember. Not true 3d, but it was there. I did play VF3 yes. None of them feel 360 degrees free. S3 does. It feels like a huge step forward, mainly cause all the moves use only the right side. That leaves you free to circle around the opponents. I thought it was awesome. I'm not into fighting games anymore though. I hope he can improve what he has in S4. If VF6 happens, good for you all. But like some pointed out, and even Yu Suzuki himself said, the arcades in Japan are dying. It's all the stupid phone games now. At least here in the U.S. RPGs are going strong still, PC RPGs at least. That's all I need. I wish Suzuki knew how big a support for his game is outside his home country, maybe he does.

 

[Budgiecat]

All I know is, Shenmue 3 became a real 3D for me. Though while playing Tekken I think 3, there was that same side step, it even was there on SNES in that Fatal fury, if I remember. Not true 3d, but it was there. I did play VF3 yes. None of them feel 360 degrees free. S3 does. It feels like a huge step forward, mainly cause all the moves use only the right side. That leaves you free to circle around the opponents. I thought it was awesome. I'm not into fighting games anymore though. I hope he can improve what he has in S4. If VF6 happens, good for you all. But like some pointed out, and even Yu Suzuki himself said, the arcades in Japan are dying. It's all the stupid phone games now. At least here in the U.S. RPGs are going strong still, PC RPGs at least. That's all I need. I wish Suzuki knew how big a support for his game is outside his home country, maybe he does.

Fatal Fury introduced the second 2D plane mechanic which was also in a few other games like Yu Yu Hakusho Makyo toitsusen (also called Yu Yu Hakusho: Sunset Fighters in South America release) by Treasure for Sega Genesis.

I believe Fatal Fury 3 even had a 3 separate 2D planes. By Real Bout Fatal Fury 2, Fatal Fury (Garou) Mark of the Wolves though, they had gotten rid of it completely.
SEGA actually had a 2D fighting game made before Virtua Fighter that had its own unique design of trying to move in 3D while being a 2D game called Dark Edge for arcades only, released January of 1993, while Virtua Fighter was released October of 1993.

As far as 5th gen 3D fighters yeah Tobal #1 had free 3D movement

Also a mech fighter called Megatudo 2096

 

[Sput Vas Normandy]

WHY KICKSTARTER TO MAKE S4? WHAT ABOUT SEGA?

I'll just gonna write again the title.

 

[Budgiecat]

WHY KICKSTARTER TO MAKE S4? WHAT ABOUT SEGA?

I'll just gonna write again the title.

What about Sega


What abut Sega....hmm...

I don't know.

Sega, as it seems, has been trying to turn a new leaf.
Word has it it is being run by new management which might have more of an affection for the prestige of the gaming side history of Sega and want to bring that glory back.
This is why you are seeing older titles being brought back and more focus on gaming again.
I do also recall reading an old article in which the Sammy Studios side of the company that acquired Sega in 2003, over time when looking at their financial spreadsheets, started to question whether it was financially even lucrative to have acquired Sega after all, as they looked at the yearly numbers and did not see anything significant coming from the video game side of Sega. Was this a worthy investment or a waste of time?
Was the pachinko side of Sammy Studios truly the ones who have been holding up Sega all this time?
Is that even right?
Something needed to be done then in their eyes
Yes they bought Atlus, which many Atlus fans were happy....I guess.
Initially I took that as a way for them to continue to be complacent; just rely on Atlus now.
Some feared they might influence Atlus to be complacent.
We haven't seen either of these thankfully (though where the hell is Shin Megami Tensei V?? And why only Switch. meh)

Anyways...

What about Sega...

hmm...

Yes a Kickstarter probably..okay lets face it: definitely, would not be as effective as the last time.
Law of diminishing returns.
Unless something (like Call of Duty or Fortnite) which is constantly in people's faces all the time with huge marketing efforts, the effects of using KS will be even less, especially after the affairs of the last one.

So yeah probably a moot point to try it again.
But...the point of a KS is to prove to corporate backers that there indeed is a purpose for said product as the consumers put their money where their mouth is before said product even came out.
Therefore it is proof there is desire for it.
This proof is supposed to convince said corporate entities to fund the rest of the project after it is kickstarted by the regular consumer backers. And beyond (potential sequels)...so that it never need to be kickstarted.
Shenmue 3 was kickstarted and slacker backed for 7 million. An extra 5 million was brought forth by companies.
This I imagine when to marketing. Or maybe not all was even spent. We don't know for sure.

Anyways..

Sega was once obviously a backer of the Shenmue series. The original backers.
Reluctant after the fall of the Dreamcast and Shenmue 2's mediocre sales results on the OG XBox debut (when to be fair, was only released in the West, not Japan, and to an audience unfamiliar to the series. 30K is a much less number than 1.2 million. And the DC version of Shenmue 2 of course was never officially released to the U.S so there was that too).

So this reluctance by Sega was considered common sense by many. Why continue to invest in a failed project.
But was it really failed; or was it a victim of outside circumstance.
After all, Shenmue 1 was thr 5th best selling game.
But 5th best selling at 1.2 million on a dying console; is that really saying much to an unconvinced public crowd who go by whatever the media dictates?
For years Shenmue was deemed a failure in the public media's eyes and that resonated into gamers psyche for decades now. So then despite the nostaligia screams of adoration when Shenmue 3 was announced at E3 2015, despite the record breaking Kickstarter results, its quite obvious not only did the 1.2 million copy owners not all show up to invest in this kickstarter, a whole 2 generations of gamers as a whole also did not come forth to invest in this third entry in kickstarter; partially because 'what the hell is Shenmue', mixed in with apprehension for KS in general, and the long time negative stigma the Shenmue series has gotten over the years.
So too this was probably felt by Sony themselves; despite some key players in there obviously (Marc Cerny, Adam Boyes, Gio Corsi, maybe even David Cage) had an influential effect on convincing the higher ups at Sony to present Shenmue 3 at E3 2015 and help in whatever little way (since Sony apparently invested a little not a lot) to help put this project in the public spotlight.
We also cannot forget Sega themselves; for it was them, despite not actually even being involved in this development project, nor getting any money from it, were the ones who agreed to give Yu Suzuki rights to the Shenmue license bar Shenmue 1 & 2.

now, the question for the future lies in will Sega step in financially to help this time?

Perhaps with the numbers coming in that are not that great as of yet, time will need to pass by more to tell.
It is true though that at certain more recent public events Yu Suzuki held, that it is said Sega was around nearby showing a bit of curious interest.
Not to mention we know that from Yu Suzuki's words; he is still in good relations with Sega. He is 'a consultant'.
He even mentioned the possibility of continuing the Outrun or VF series as a consultant with Sega if he felt like it (but talks would have to be done). But that shows Sega is willing to listen.

And so if they're willing to listen; that sounds like a whole nother point of progress from the company;
the same company that finally put out an HD compilation of Shenmue 1 & 2 when most thought that'd never be done.
And it was done after the Shenmue 3 announcement which is telling.

So it would then depend on how much a stake would Sega put it; would they be willing to work with other investors.
We know through Bayonetta, that Sega wanted nothing to do with fully funding a Bayonetta 2 or 3.
So Platinum Games had to seek out investors elsewhere.
This sounded mean from anyone viewing Sega. Abandoning their own IP in a way; similar to Shenmue.
But, they, unlike say Konami, were still open to the idea of allowing an outside company (Nintendo) to fund these 2 games.
So there's that.
And we see that not only were they okay with outside companies and fans backing Shenmue 3, they as I said, allowed Yu to get the Shenmue 3 license, and didnt get any $ from it. So there's that too.
This could be their way of honoring Suzuki's contribution to the company's legacy for years.
I guess they did not forget that.
They must also somewhat respect Platinum Games despite not funding the Bayonetta sequels (and letting Anarchy Reigns die).

So, for a future Shenmue, could they be involved? Perhaps. Fully? I doubt it. Will they be willing to work with other investors? Perhaps. We dont know for now but the idea is certainly more open to it now than it was in the past.

 

[Suzaku]

Like I said previously, with low numbers you can't convince Sega to return onboard for Shenmue IV, let alone with Nagoshi at the helm (Nagosh basically is extra wary for everything that isn't Yakuza, even Sonic is having an hard time now with budget restrains after a few very poor games on Nintendo consoles, Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom).

BUT, the only way to convince Sega is to make a collaboration between them and YSNet.

a big "Virtua Fighter 6 + Shenmue 4 collaboration"

YsNet would help Am2 to make VF6 (since Am2 doesn't have talent anymoe nor ideas to continue the series, and that's where Yu Suzuki can help reboot the series), while Am2 and/or RyuGaGotoku Studio could lend a hand for Shenmue IV.

It would be a win-win-win for all sides, Sega, YSnet and gamers.
We should spread this idea to Yu Suzuki and Sega.

 

[Kyo_JP]

Sega should keep in mind that Shenmue III KS brought back the franchise to life, increasing merchandise sales (clothes, vinyl discs etc) and any revenue they have made with the I&II collection is also related to the rebirth of the franchise (and I am pretty sure that after more than one year and multiple offers whatever they spent with D3T must be covered and with a surpluss). So not sure if Sega should jump into publishing, but I would love to see them more colaborative like they are doing with SoR4

 

[mjqjazzbar]

I don’t think Ys Net has anyone that would really be of benefit to AM2, outside the obvious guy. I saw a couple VF vets in the credits, but I’m not sure they were in key roles. I’d love Sega to get involved, but man I just can’t see how it’d happen.

 

[Suzaku]

I don’t think Ys Net has anyone that would really be of benefit to AM2, outside the obvious guy. I saw a couple VF vets in the credits, but I’m not sure they were in key roles. I’d love Sega to get involved, but man I just can’t see how it’d happen.

Outside Suzuki, Okayasu for example was a key person in Virtua Fighter.
Still have to check the rest of the staff credits.

 

[Budgiecat]

Outside Suzuki, Okayasu for example was a key person in Virtua Fighter.
Still have to check the rest of the staff credits.

Seichi Ishii was the game designer for Virtua Fighter.
He then went onto be the game designer for the first Tekken.
Then he made Tobal #1, Tobal 2, Ehrgeiz, The Bouncer nd Kakuto Chojin under is company Dream Factory.

No idea what he's doing now though...

 

[scooterusa]

Im sorry but I honestly think you are trolling with this post?

I am inclined to agree with him. As much as Shenmue 1 is my favorite game in the series (I love Japan as a setting, and the music and atmosphere), as an objective fan not much really goes on in Shenmue 1. And if you are waiting to do something, there isn't much to do (Train by yourself in a parking lot, or play the same 4-5 arcade games).

 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

I agree as well; it isn't a bad game in the slightest, but the main reason why everyone gets up in arms about, "waiting around too much," is because indeed not much goes on; hence why II has much better pacing, as you're always on to the next thing.

 

[xatruio]

Could've sworn i saw Dram Factory alongside Studio Fake in the credits, but 50/50 whether a false memory or not.

Floated an idea a couple months ago, now reminded by a new thread earlier today; Square Enix relationship with Deep Silver. What if DS is still the main publisher, but SE as well as Sega, each chip in more collaboration and capital for Shen4? They're the parters of Life is Strange, yeah? Aside from many other RPGs, so they have history with games sort of like Shenmue...

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Could've sworn i saw Dram Factory alongside Studio Fake in the credits, but 50/50 whether a false memory or not.

Floated an idea a couple months ago, now reminded by a new thread earlier today; Square Enix relationship with Deep Silver. What if DS is still the main publisher, but SE as well as Sega, each chip in more collaboration and capital for Shen4? They're the parters of Life is Strange, yeah? Aside from many other RPGs, so they have history with games sort of like Shenmue...

Development Cooperation
Developed in Association with	BrainStorm, D bas - Don't be a stranger, GameStudio, Hinata, historia, Million Edge, Implausible Industires, RIZ, studiofake Co. ltd., SugarCut

 

[xatruio]

Rats, oh well. I did notice GameStudio. Heh, great name

 

[Dmitriy1]

I agree as well; it isn't a bad game in the slightest, but the main reason why everyone gets up in arms about, "waiting around too much," is because indeed not much goes on; hence why II has much better pacing, as you're always on to the next thing.

I never felt that way. I had tons of fun playing the 3rd. Hunted to get every move book, trained each one up. Trained to master the moves I loved even past master point, to actually master them. I played many online RPGs over these years. These fetch quests with questioning NPCs so many seem to hate in the 3rd game, or in all Shenmues, are very normal. I found Niawu a bit frustrating at times, it is too big, with too many areas being plain useless. Too many arcades are just copy and paste, too many shops too. Much could have been saved, and maybe used for their precious story more. But to say that S3 is bad... They know better than Suzuki, sure. It should be like the fucking Final Fantasy 13 was, walk 3 steps, a fight, then a cut scene. High quality stupid CGI cut scene. I bet THAT would make them happy. I hope S3 sells enough to have the 4th game happen. If it doesn't though, truthfully, in 2019 I have many heavy on good story quest RPGs. None with the unique martial arts engine, or that way Shenmue makes you able to interact with the world, but many with way better story. Compared to all 3 games combined. I desperately want Shenmue 4 out, but it won't kill me if it never happens either. Yu Suzuki deserves my thanks for an awesome game in Shenmue 3, I plan to replay it soon. My slacker backing was way worth it.

 

[Dmitriy1]

I am inclined to agree with him. As much as Shenmue 1 is my favorite game in the series (I love Japan as a setting, and the music and atmosphere), as an objective fan not much really goes on in Shenmue 1. And if you are waiting to do something, there isn't much to do (Train by yourself in a parking lot, or play the same 4-5 arcade games).

I think that guy is a troll himself, he kept baiting me. S3 beats S1 on many points, if S3 had a real time motorbike sequence it'd utterly destroy S1. People have too much nostalgia going on. Everything S1 had S3 also does. Just better, smoother, in a more fun way IMO. S2 now, that's harder to compete with. That one had many more twists with following undetected, and that falling leaf scene. Loved it. Again, in S2 you're sent to more NPCs, I don't know if other than Yanda Zhu you do find much of the story, maybe those flashbacks Xuying had.
All that said, I like Japan too. I liked the motor bike parts to death. I wish there was an option to be in the Gi that hangs above his bed when training. I just don't get the hate for S3 when objectively comparing it to other Shenmues. That's me though.

 

[gladias9]

I don't get the story gripes, it has more story than Shenmue 1 did.

I'll agree AND disagree.
Shenmue 3 has more story sequences, I can agree. The pacing is better period.
Although, Shenmue 1 has more plot progression.

Lan Di kills Ryo's father, Ryo obtains Phoenix mirror & Ryo meets Master Chen to learn what Chi You Men's plans are (roughly).. Shenmue 3's progression starts and ends with Niao Sun stealing the mirror and learning Lan Di was adopted by the Chi You.

 

[gladias9]

WHY KICKSTARTER TO MAKE S4? WHAT ABOUT SEGA?
I'll just gonna write again the title.

Sega isn't going to do anything if those post-launch sales numbers aren't talking.
We'd be lucky if Deep Silver/Epic Games pitched in a second time let alone getting another successful kickstarter.