Why some are disappointed Chai fights are QTEs ?

Look man, as a general observation, any time someone has something positive to say about S3, you have to come barrelling in to tell them how they are wrong and how their perspective makes no sense. It’s something that goes back to before the game was even released. I’ve said I get where you’re coming from re. some of your points, but overall I can get on board with the Chai QTE’s and the reasoning behind them. Both in-game and real-life dev reasons. That’s the third time I make this particular point.

I would be inclined to elaborate more and engage if I thought it would lead to some kind of useful discourse. But it’s not very productive to predictably be met with “no, makes no sense”, “no, credibility destroyed”, “no, no, no”. It makes it very hard to take any valid points you may have seriously.


No, you misunderstand me here.
Here's the two things I said:
1. Chai fight being QTE isn't a problem at all. Is it sad ? Maybe. But I can totally get the reason that animating his specific moveset was too much of a budget constraint for barely two fights.

2. What I criticize is the poster's point not making sense. OP's point is the following:
"Chai is weaker than Ryo, therefore he only deserves a QTE".
Which means "Weak opponents should only be a QTE".
What does it mean then ? That if Chai is only a QTE, that was because it made sense as it's a weak opponent and that any random thug in the game is stronger than Chai (bullshit). On top of that it also implies that Lan Di's bodyguards are weaker than the average thugs you fight (bullshit too).


Shenmue 3 has issues. It's fine. It doesn't make it a bad game. But I feel like it's getting tired to trying to rationalize every decisions made as perfect and that it couldn't be any better.
If Chai fights are QTE, it's not because "it was the best artistic decision that you could take and in term of plot it totally make sense". It's because it was too much time consuming and costy. So wasting money on two fights was a wise choise. It can be a good decision for different reasons. And that's what I'm saying: "It's a good decision, but let's not pretend it was for sake of continuity and story".
 
Sorry for the double post:
Okay I get my mistake. When I quoted you, I didn't specify which hypothesis wasn't credible.
I totally agree with your point @Sh3ppy that budget constraints are the reason why. When I said "Except Shenmue III took a stand to destroy any credibility for that hypothesis" I meant that Shenmue III didn't make the distinction between "strong opponents = no qte" and "weak opponents = qte" which OP was claiming.
 
. But I feel like it's getting tired to trying to rationalize every decisions made as perfect and that it couldn't be any better.

Those are most definitely A lot of fair points you make.

The only part I’ll dispute is what I’ve quoted above, as most reasonable people will recognise that S3 is far from being perfect for a variety of reasons. I wish they had done things differently in a number of ways, but not being a developer and knowing that generally they worked with some very limiting restrictions, I’m happy to give them the benefit of the doubt for most ‘missteps’.

I guess it boils down to this. For me personally, S3’s existence means so much after the franchise was dead in the water for so many years. So actually having S3 in our hands and it exceeding my personal expectations (I was very fearful it was going to be a broken mess), makes me very, very happy indeed. And like I said above I am willing to overlook a lot of the shortcomings as overall the positives far outweigh the negatives. For me. I also see S3 as being a very promising springboard and huge potential for IV, should we be lucky enough to get it. And this is what makes me defensive when I perceive people as shitting on the game. I always thought it was a bit silly when people got so defensive and quarrelled over other fandoms so passionately, like Star Wars for example (I love SW btw- well most of it), but now I find myself on the other side of the looking glass.

And none of this is to say that your points are invalid. Because you make many observations which have a lot of merit. I guess it’s down to perception.
 
There should be two Chai fights: First Chai fight should've been open battle with a loss meaning an in game time loss/wake up at a house near the fight and a win meaning he drops a clue to progress the story or offer something unique/special as a reward. This would give a nostalgic note to the Chai fight in the Arcade in S1.

Second Chai fight should be multiple QTE and command QTE as you've got the measure of him one way or the other. You just need to focus to defeat him.

Hindsight is a terrible thing. Respect what was done but wished there was more. More Chai is good for me lol.
 
Anytime there's a QTE fight instead of a real fight is disappointing because they have so many aspects that relate to actual fighting such as sparring, moving up ranks at a dojo, increasing kung fu, buying new scrolls, etc and instead of getting rewarded for your hard work you have to press a button real quick.

QTEs are fine for chases and short one hits like when Ryo takes out the thugs before facing their boss the second time, but i want to play the long fights instead of watch.
 
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People made a lot of good points but I think some are upset there wasn't a proper fight because they spent the better part of almost 2 decades playing the first game and striving to beat Chai in the arcade, so a proper Chai fight in S3 would be cathartic.

I don't mind that it's QTE only. Chai has always been a plot device in these games and never an important character, in my estimation, so I don't see why a one-on-one rematch is even needed. This is just my opinion though.

It, honestly, feels like Chai was just put in as a type of nostalgia/fan-service, which is fine by me and it didn't make me enjoy it less, but I don't have issues with any aspects of the interactions with Chai.
 
I can definitely see why a fight— any fight— being done through QTEs would disappoint, but I agree with the OP and others that a fight against Chai would ultimately be unnecessary. Ryo already defeated him, quite soundly, at the end of the first game; and if Ryo's already taken him out, then any further duel is redundant.

But more than that, I think Chai is here to fulfil the role of the demoted villain— a once-major threat shows up only to get cold-clocked by our hero, to demonstrate his growth (particularly common in video games, where bosses often reappear as a generic enemy) but also as a bit of levity and humour. And I think both of those reasonings are evident in Shenmue III: not only does Ryo treat Chai as little more than a distraction, but Chai's room clearly sets him up as a comical figure.

I agree the bigger problem is that Chai's role is never explained. He hardly needs a major role again, but a few lines of dialogue about how he's trying to defeat Ryo and redeem himself to regain the Chi You Men's favour would have gone a long way, I think.
 
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I agree the bigger problem is that Chai's role is never explained. He hardly needs a major role again, but a few lines of dialogue about how he's trying to defeat Ryo and redeem himself to regain the Chi You Men's favour would have gone a long way, I think.

Welcome to the Dojo, great post that I largely concur with.

The fact Chai is part of the narrative and given little or no justification for his involvement is the biggest travesty concerning his character. Then if the most recent story DLC could be consider canon, his involvement with the Blue Spiders become even more opaque.
 
I always thought that Chai would be like an annoying sub-boss for Ryo, always meddling, appearing out of nowhere, mixed with some comedic relief.
The reason I didn't like any of the Chai encounters is because it cheapens the narrative.
You build this tension of him spying on Ryo, then to steal the manuscript and get it back in 10 ? seconds, what's the point of that ? And again at the end, "you won't open this door"... 10 seconds later "ok go ahead bye"...
Let's say that Ryo finds Yuan on Bailu, but at the end Chai ends up stealing the manuscript and you getting it back at the end, wouldn't that raise the stakes through half the game ? You don't even need to find Yuan in Bailu, just let muscle guy tell you they went to Niaowu and the story could keep going the same.
Honestly there are so many little tweaks you could do to the story to make it more coherent it's sad.
 
Let's say that Ryo finds Yuan on Bailu, but at the end Chai ends up stealing the manuscript and you getting it back at the end, wouldn't that raise the stakes through half the game ?
I disagree, I think the stakes are inherently a lot higher with a kidnapping. Holding an important manuscript is an inconvenience, but holding a person is potentially a life-or-death situation.

There are definitely some tweaks that could be made to improve the pacing and flow, but I'm not sure this is one.
 
I disagree, I think the stakes are inherently a lot higher with a kidnapping. Holding an important manuscript is an inconvenience, but holding a person is potentially a life-or-death situation.

There are definitely some tweaks that could be made to improve the pacing and flow, but I'm not sure this is one.
I said it could also work without finding Yuan. Also there's a big lack of "true" motivation to end up at the castle, they just pull a "yeah, we also kidnapped Shenhua and brought her there, so stop doing random tourism that leads nowhere".
And you already are looking for a well established character when arriving in Niaowu, instead of red snakes or X gang that no one cares a single bit about.
Hell, you could let Shenhua keep the manuscript and Chai kidnap her instead, the father then tells you about Lan Di's upbringing and after you get the manuscript you actually get some throwback instead of an exposition dump.
Chai serves literally no narrative purpose in the game, it can't even be counted as an obstacle.
 
I never thought Chai was funny in Shenmue 1 until the very end when Ryo knocked him into the water. Before that i thought he was creepy and scary. I wondered what his story was, what caused him to look the way he does, how he got involved with Lan Di. No one in S2 or S3 gave me those kinds of chills. It's sad to see him turned into comic relief.
 
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