Yakuza is not "Shenmue evolved"

mjqjazzbar

mjqjazzbar

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Jul 28, 2018
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Shenmue IIx
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Ghost of Tsushima
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mjqjazzbar
Not that anyone who makes this argument cares, but here are several reasons why I disagree:

  1. No passing of time in Yakuza, unless you move the story forward. You could accomplish multiple months' worth of side stories in these games in a single in-game day if you so choose
  2. Yakuza games constantly tell you where to go, without any direct investigation. The mini map always has a glowing waypoint conveniently pointing to your next story beat
  3. Mini games typically have little to no relevance on the main story or the main character's motivations. They're more of a window dressing; a very nice window dressing, but something you can completely avoid if you choose. In Shenmue, many mini games are there to either refine your QTE skills, foreshadow future gameplay elements, or help you earn money to move the story along
None of this makes Yakuza better, the same or worse than Shenmue. It's just a list of reasons why I feel the idea Yakuza is an 'evolved' version of Shenmue is a bit silly.

Please feel free to add your thoughts! I would like to keep adding.
 
Shenmue at its core is a detective game.
Yakuza at its core is a Action Brawler RPG.

Both have entirely different philosophy's underneath.

Shenmue is all about having the player engage with the world they exist in. Whether it be asking people for directions, asking people for clues, searching every nook and cranny of the world for something vital or nothing in particular, earning money at a job to get what you need, playing games to simply waste time, collecting toys (or herbs) to potentially make money or just for the thrill of it and so on.

Everything you do in Shenmue has reason and purpose. The game encourages you at every turn to explore and interact with its world. This is why so many people who simply play it for the story are usually left disappointed with it. Because in some ways, playing that way goes against the core philosophy of the game. It is a game that wants you to simply explore, interact and engage with its world.

Think about the Giant Bomb endurance run. A playthrough that was only concerned with going through the story beats. How much did they miss out on? How many random cut scenes did they miss out on? How many unique little experiences? The game is practically begging you to explore its world and find these things for yourself.

It's more about the journey and less about the destination. Which fits in line with this being a game that is re-telling Yu Suzuki's own experiences travelling throughout China while making Virtua Fighter. It's all about the journey and less about the destination and as such, it is a game that is constantly encouraging you to explore and interact with its world in order to get the most from it.

Yakuza, on the other hand, is all about the destination. It's all about the story. The world it exists in, while still having personality and charm of its own, is secondary. Yakuza is all about getting you from point A to point B while offering some side distractions along the way to keep you entertained. But if you're playing Yakuza, chances are you're sticking around for its story more than anything else. And they tell great stories.

I feel like the Yakuza games have gone from strength to strength in their story telling. This is where I feel they do maybe have the slight edge on Shenmue. But at the same time, that's the core philosophy of the game. It's all about getting you from Point A to Point B while offering some side distractions to keep you hanging around and mechanically give you XP and money to help make you stronger. But the side content in Yakuza can be almost entirely ignored for those who wish to simply get to the destination. You're not getting a job to make money to live. You're not in the position of having to pay an inn keep every night for a room and such. Kamuro has its delights waiting to be found, but it doesn't urge you in the same way to participate with its world. Sure, you earn money, you earn XP, but you're never in dire need of these things to keep the journey going.

Shenmue tries to present a living breathing world that wants its players to interact and engage with it. To take the mantra from Persona 5. It encourages the player to simply take their time and explore. The detective mechanics at its core are what encourage the player to engage with the world at hand. You won't get anywhere if you don't interact and engage with this world in some form.

Yakuza is all about delivering a satisfying experience with some stuff on the side for those willing to invest the time. There is a lot of stuff waiting to be found in Yakuza games, but it can also be completely ignored if all you care about is the destination as the game never entirely encourages you to engage with its world. At least not as much as Shenmue. It takes the GTA route of presenting it all as a purely optional side dish.

I love both franchises, but one is very much about the journey and less the destination, while the other is more concerned with getting the player to the destination.

And I think maybe that's why Yakuza has the broader appeal. Especially for the audiences that do just want to get to the point and not waste time engaging and living in a world.
 
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Yakuza isnt Shenmue evolved. Isnt Shenmue's brother. I think nobody said that, they said they have kinda similarities, but it's just that.

Yakuza it's Shenmue's cool cousin that was in the mob and did drugs when he was young while Shenmue was studying to get his degree.
 
Sput said:
Yakuza isnt Shenmue evolved. Isnt Shenmue's brother. I think nobody said that, they said they have kinda similarities, but it's just that.

Yakuza it's Shenmue's cool cousin that was in the mob and did drugs when he was young while Shenmue was studying to get his degree.
Click to expand...

Now that's an analogy. I like
 
mjqjazzbar said:
Great posts, guys. Definitely nice to really lay out why the games aren’t all that similar, especially since we are fans of both.
Click to expand...
I still gonna have to insist in my crusade of implement the Yakuza's food system in Shenmue 4 tho!
 
It's easy to make this claim when your franchise has the high ground and lack context. Remember that Shenmue used to look like this:


While the original Ryu ga Gotoku used to look like this:


Therefore twenty years ago, I could have made the claim that Ryu ga Gotoku was the poor man's Shenmue. If someone back then had made the "Yakuza is Shenmue evolved" claim no one would have taken them seriously.

The difference is that one franchise has fallen from grace and went dormant while the other has had time to evolve. Imagine if everyone had bought Shenmue Chapter One: Yokosuka twice. Imagine what a visionary savant like Yu Suzuki could have done with AM2 and a blank check from SEGA.

On some level, I can understand the resentment some Shenmue fans have with Ryu Ga Gotoku. They feel that Ryu Ga Gotoku's success should have been Shenmue's. Or that Shenmue is at its weakest point while Ryu Ga Gotoku is at its strongest.

At the end of the day, I think this whole war between the two sides is stupid and childish. Both titles are great but are in different places due to the circumstances surrounding them.
 
Tsukuyomimagi99 said:
It's easy to make this claim when your franchise has the high ground and lack context. Remember that Shenmue used to look like this:

On some level, I can understand the resentment Shenmue fans have with Ryu Ga Gotoku. They feel that Ryu Ga Gotoku's success should have been Shenmue's.
Click to expand...

Nailed it man. I think this is the deal. They see reflected what Shenmue could be/deserved to be
 
Tsukuyomimagi99 said:
On some level, I can understand the resentment some Shenmue fans have with Ryu Ga Gotoku. They feel that Ryu Ga Gotoku's success should have been Shenmue's. Or that Shenmue is at its weakest point while Ryu Ga Gotoku is at its strongest.

At the end of the day, I think this whole war between the two sides is stupid and childish. Both titles are great but are in different places due to the circumstances surrounding them.
Click to expand...

Pretty much, man. Pretty much!

I say enjoy 'em both! There's no need for one or the other only. Just give me both franchises and I'll gladly play them both and enjoy them for what they are as opposed to constantly comparing them.
 
As mentioned in the first point, I think the basic difference between the two - and every other game - is the time conception.

In Shenmue, the time rules your action because the world is above you. You have a calendar, a waking, a curfew, appointments to respect, a timed game over, timed side quests and independent NPCs. In most of the other games, it's easily the opposite : the player rules the time and so the world.

In Shenmue, you don't rule the world. You respect the rules of the depicted world. In other games, it is to break them. Both implies sort of satisfaction when you succeed, but Shenmue's one is the most original and so interesting.

In Shenmue, your first quest is the most difficult quest of the game since you're not about to complete it before hours of play, multiple episodes and (sadly) years of patience.

Imagine yourself being only a student, with few or no regular income, a weak friend network while you have to find in a realistic way a powerful and invisible person, a mafia leader from the base of very light clues.

In other words, imagine being nude and having to use only your brain and your fist to face the whole world in its all complexity and modernity.

So the time scale makes the experience completely different, more progressive, epic, and as said above, more engaging.

Yakuza has his own strengths for sure, and from what I heard here, the last episodes do some things much better than Shenmue. But overall I prefer Shenmue by miles, and sincerly don't understand the hype around Yakuza's qualities. Tbh, no Yakuza is found in my top 20 of best solo games.
 
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