General RGG Discussion

jsh020 said:
You might be the first person I've met that dislikes Kaoru
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I definitely know I'm in the minority, but there are a few I've run into.

Just a horribly-written character (the entire second half of 2 is a mess, writing-wise) and I still hate the fact that she's shoehorned to be a love interest, which completely eschews 1 and 0, in regards to Yumi (albeit 0 came out afterwards). So many out of character moments for Kiryu too, in the endgame, which pisses me off (thankfully, the later games all continue the character that was established in 1).

Anyways, not only did I write two essays in University where Kaoru was a focal point (seriously lol), I've written about it to death on the internet in the past 7 years, so I'll leave it at that! lol
 
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
I definitely know I'm in the minority, but there are a few I've run into.

Just a horribly-written character (the entire second half of 2 is a mess, writing-wise) and I still hate the fact that she's shoehorned to be a love interest, which completely eschews 1 and 0, in regards to Yumi (albeit 0 came out afterwards). So many out of character moments for Kiryu too, in the endgame, which pisses me off (thankfully, the later games all continue the character that was established in 1).

Anyways, not only did I write two essays in University where Kaoru was a focal point (seriously lol), I've written about it to death on the internet in the past 7 years, so I'll leave it at that! lol
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Well thats some.....passion I guess, I guess since 2 is so widely beloved as the best in the series prior to 0 its fair to be fairly talkative about your dislike of it then if you wind up in that camp, its like disliking FF7 and hearing everyone say its the best.

I guess how you feel about 2 is how most people feel about 3 and 6, except even the people that think 3 is a mess seem to like it a decent amount still, 6 is the only game in the series save dead souls ive seen people genuinly hate and call a bad game but even then not many, Yakuza's a weird one, its really not as divisive as most long running franchises and theres really not those bad egg entries everyone rags on or gets into arguments about, the most we get are people joking about the egrigiously written BEAUTIFUL EYES or rubber bullets.
 
Indeed, 3 is my favourite title and 6 is #4, while 2 is my LEAST favourite game of the series, 4 being second least lol

I don't have that same ranking in terms of what games I feel are the best (save for 6, which I put as 4th best and 4, which I put at second worst!), as I do deem two to be in the middle of the pack or so, but yeah, my passion for this series knows no bounds ;)
 
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
Indeed, 3 is my favourite title and 6 is #4, while 2 is my LEAST favourite game of the series, 4 being second least lol

I don't have that same ranking in terms of what games I feel are the best (save for 6, which I put as 4th best and 4, which I put at second worst!), but yeah, my passion for this series knows no bounds ;)
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Honestly with how much shit 3 gets its a bit refreshing to hear anyone put it at their number 1. 3's a weird one for me too cause I would honestly say the insane plot and constantly blocking boss fights make it my least favorite main entry, but it also has stuff like Mine whose my fav antagonist in the series and my actual controversial opinion that the orphanage stuff is the better part of the game where as alot of people think its too slow and drawn out.

I don't know, I'll take slow heartwarming character moments and slice of life, over the bonkers retcons and insane plot escalation in the 2nd half, I love mine but I aint gonna pretend like he wasnt making up for pretty much the entire game around him.
 
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I understand some of the complaints about 6, or well most of them really, and it’s not hard to feel them myself, but for whatever reason the feels the game gave me still make it my favorite so far, at least until I actually finish the rest. I guess I just feel it’s kind of similar to GTA4 in a way, being built in an entirely new engine which unfortunately has the side effect of some features not being fleshed out or just absent entirely. Even so, I very much enjoyed what was there, almost as more of a quality over quantity kind of mindset, and even after reading some breakdowns of the story I still feel like it came together really well and was better for just focusing on one character again - something that made me put down 5 in the middle of the baseball guys chapter. Just felt fatigued having to “start over” with every new character.

Dead Souls seems to be the only one to get much hate and really you don’t hear about it much. I think the rest is a testament to how the series has mostly stuck to what it’s done well, for the most part. Many seem upset at 7 going to turn based, and I can kind of understand with how many RPGs have gone the action route(FF7 in particular) but I have faith they can make it fun, and after this many titles it must be hard to make a brawler more interesting without changing it too much. But if they never go back, I do think I’ll miss throwing enemies into each other and watching them rag doll all over the place.
 
Some are upset about 7 changing, only time will tell if its legit complaining or a vocal minority depending on how the game actually performs. Personally I was sold on playing the demo and everything shown since has only enforced my point that its going to be a very special game indeed.
Hilariously, I've been speaking to someone else looking forward to it and both of us have seen people complaining how the game is basically "more of the same" - no, seriously, some people actually said this. Despite how much changes with the game some people really believe that!

Rank wise, I don't rank Yakuza games. I find it pointless. I enjoy them all and that's all I care about, I especially hate the Resetera and Reddit crowds who crown one game as the best and then basically state that all other games are inferior because of that, and then you have people telling others to not play Yakuza 5... madness indeed. Its as if judging and enjoying a game by its own merits is completely impossible! Heck even Dead Souls has a few redeeming features - the least grindy modding in the entire series (its easy to get everything without grinding), some legit great side stories, fun mini games as always, awesome Majima moments (so many) and more Ryuuji. Its also got a whole heap of issues, but it never becomes unfun for me, far from it. Well, maybe that 1 hour + Amon dungeon without a checkpoint...
 
I fully understand why people hate 6 even if i dont fully agree with alot of it and think theres some high points people dont give enough credit to, how good the support cast is in particular. But 6 has so many issues both story and gameplay wise and coupled with being kiryu's final game is just something that ramps up those issues for people.

I really think the straw that breaks the camels back is just the finale though, like yes the lack of content and slower clunkier combat due to the dragon engine being incomplete are problems people have, but it really is just cause the game loses so much steam in that last couple hours. Its the fact this is kiryu's final hurrah and we have to deal with maybe the worst final boss in the franchise (maybe bar kenzans) against the lamest most underdeveloped villain who pulls pretty much a best of for the game's worst tropes in rapid succession in his minuscule screentime. Honestly if I werent on the side of people that really liked kiryu's exit in the ending and alot of the stuff before it itself I'd probably of been far harsher on 6.

TL;DR, if someya was the main villain instead I think yakuza 6 would of been far better recieved by people, Iwami really fucked that game in so many ways. Seriously we get this great human character with loads of personality and charm, actual character flaws, and a great dynamic with kiryu that directly challenge's kiryu's philosophy and perception of how the yakuza should act, and we get stuck with the shitty bussinesman with 10 minutes of screen time as our villain instead whose only character trait is hes really mean. Even their boss fights are so radically different in quality its comical.

shadowman16 said:
and then you have people telling others to not play Yakuza 5... madness indeed.
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I have noticed 5 has been getting some harsher reception as of recent, but it seems so minuscule I kind of just write it off not even as a vocal minority, cause I dont even think its that vocal, its just you sort of see it around a bit.
 
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Ugh, subterrania trophy, getting to the 50th floor/level... I posted about it in the, "Games you like that were derided," thread, but I spent nearly 3 hours on that damn trophy.
 
also while talking about 3's underrated aspects in contrast to all the criticsm it gets, it really cannot be understated how good the soundtrack is, like everyone always focuses in on fly but the whole soundtrack had bangers, and you tell me this part right here aint one of the best melodies the series has ever produced.

also this song here is underrated too
 
jsh020 said:
TL;DR, if someya was the main villain instead I think yakuza 6 would of been far better recieved by people, Iwami really fucked that game in so many ways. Seriously we get this great human character with loads of personality and charm, actual character flaws, and a great dynamic with kiryu that directly challenge's kiryu's philosophy and perception of how the yakuza should act, and we get stuck with the shitty bussinesman with 10 minutes of screen time as our villain instead whose only character trait is hes really mean. Even their boss fights are so radically different in quality its comical.

I have noticed 5 has been getting some harsher reception as of recent, but it seems so minuscule I kind of just write it off not even as a vocal minority, cause I dont even think its that vocal, its just you sort of see it around a bit.
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Someya as the main boss alongside Koshimazu? after stabbing papa Iwami in the back would have been a better duo for me. That said, I loved Someya's arc in 6 and kinda liked the other evil Tojo dude as well (who's name also escapes me). Iwami Jr isn't even a bad plot twist but not for the final Kiryu centric game (as of the moment). He's just a pansy. I mean, Aizawa is a pretty bad choice as well in 5 but at least you had the gameplay back up that fight and make it the most memorable finale in the series (for me, alongside Ishin but that's a spinoff).

And yeah, its just been a few people complaining about 5 but in predicatble ways (story, amount of content) but I don't even find 5's story bad anymore, it makes sense to me. You just have to play it through 3+ times and keep note of what everything /everyone says/does for it to completely make sense. Then again if said people also complain about Shinada I just ignore them, since he got the best bit of the game aside from Mr Suzuki! (Saejima would outrank him but pacing hurt him. Nice haircut though).
 
I never really thought of the final boss of 6 that way, though I guess that’s a pretty common thought. The thing for me is, I don’t necessarily correlate the final boss with the main antagonist of the story. In Kiryu’s letter to Daigo, I feel like there was really no primary villain, just that a lot of problems in the game and even in many parts of the series stemmed from parents and children being unable to come together, differences between generations and times in general. The younger Iwami was simply an embodiment of that notion, though in that case I agree Someya could have worked just as well.
 
Its not really the first Yakuza game to do a weak final boss after a great one - Kenzan basically gives you the real final boss right BEFORE you do the long fight. Where you fight evil samurai power ranger wanabes and then old man sorta Jingu. But the way the game ends makes it feel pretty damn epic, and hopeless at the same time. But its a spinoff so no worries. Likewise 4 actually has my favourite final bosses first, then by the time you get to Tanimura its basically scrapping the bottom of the barrel. But since the four bosses are done one after another, it softens the blow.

Where as 6 was billed as Kiryu's finale and it just felt weak ending with him. I guess I wanted someone like Mine, Ryuuji, Nishiki, Majima - these incredibly powerful, charismatic dudes who would electrify the stage and ooze epicness.

But that said, I only dislike the final boss for 6. Not the ending (actually really like that), really like the game itself as well, there's plenty there to love from the new engine, new activities, some great side stories etc.
 
The other thing about 6's that so egregious about Iwami isnt just that hes lame, its that quite literally every other antagonist in the game had more charisma and personality as well contrast to kiryu, even the fucking guy who everyone jokingly called korean vergil who has like 3 scenes was more memorable.
 
BloodyHeartland said:
The thing for me is, I don’t necessarily correlate the final boss with the main antagonist of the story.
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Thats really only true for 5 and very arguably maybe kenzan cause that game's plot completely focuses in on the secondary antagonist the entire game. But for every other game the main antagonist is pretty much the final boss and 6 in particularly is very upfront saying that the whole game was for Iwami and by Iwami, he was just terrible so he didnt work.

I guess you could make a bit of an argument for judgement's villain too in this case, which I think comes down to subjectivity on how you view the story, especially on how unconventional they were compared to the past entries villains I would still argue the game absolutely is billing one character very blatantly as the main threat
Kuroiwa counts more as the main antagonist even if hes not the mastermind simply because the game and Yagami's character is so focused on the conflict between them putting as much focus on the mole as the central aspect of the mystery, coupled with how the entire finale is framed exclusively on taking Kuroiwa down after Shono's plan had essentially already been stopped, I'd say they both end up sharing main antagonist titles at the very least.

Ever other entry though, nah I think its pretty cut and dry, nishiki for 1, ryuji for 2, mine for 3, Munakata for 4, Kurosawa for 5 its just aizawa is the final boss cause kurosawa is a dying old man, and iwami for 6, these were all characters that directly controled the conflict of the game and were integral to the plots ever happening
 
BloodyHeartland said:
I never really thought of the final boss of 6 that way, though I guess that’s a pretty common thought. The thing for me is, I don’t necessarily correlate the final boss with the main antagonist of the story. In Kiryu’s letter to Daigo, I feel like there was really no primary villain, just that a lot of problems in the game and even in many parts of the series stemmed from parents and children being unable to come together, differences between generations and times in general. The younger Iwami was simply an embodiment of that notion, though in that case I agree Someya could have worked just as well.
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Babang on!!!!

This is why I have 0 issues with the story in 6; the reveal of the Secret of Onomichi was BRILLIANT and the wonderful characters (not just antagonists throughout), made it a plot that got you emotionally-invested and it played out wonderfully.

I don't care too much about the final boss as you hit the nail on the head; he ISN'T the final boss, rather the final fight.
 
I mean even if you do frame it that way, it really doesn't change how abysmal the final boss fight of 6 was from both a story and especially game play perspective, shit was just anticlimactic and underwhelming.
 
jsh020 said:
Ever other entry though, nah I think its pretty cut and dry, nishiki for 1, ryuji for 2, mine for 3, Munakata for 4, Kurosawa for 5 its just aizawa is the final boss cause kurosawa is a dying old man, and iwami for 6, these were all characters that directly controled the conflict of the game and were integral to the plots ever happening
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Jingu is most-definitely the main boss for 1; the whole plot of the 10 million yen (which is what the game is really about) was all orchestrated and put into action via him. Nishkiyama isn't the final fight either.
 
jsh020 said:
???????????? You got some wires crossed up there?
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Jingu is the final fight of 1.

Eh... yeah, I'm stretching, I know; I meant cutscene-wise, Jingu is the last one to put up a fight and **** around with anyone, while Nishkiyama just sacrifices himself... TRULY the last fight, yeah, is Nishkiyama.
 
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
Jingu is the final fight of 1.

Eh... yeah, I'm stretching, I know.
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Yeah thats not even a stretch, its just outright ignoring that how much of the conflict revolved around Nishiki's actions, the plot is more than the 10 million yen disappearing, but the plot itself was about everyone fighting over who got to it, jingu wasnt even the one behind it vanishing it was Yumi and by no standard is she the villain.

Nishiki's role as the main villain is that hes the central one going after Kiryu and haruka the whole game after he essentially overthrew the tojo clan in pursuit of the 10 million. Jingu is just the flavor text behind explaining the 10 million existing at all hence why he only has like 2 scenes. Remove Jingu you still have to deal with Nishiki's actions needing to be stopped, this is why the story also does remove jingu as the penultimate fight not the final one.
 
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