General RGG Discussion

Saying “I can understand people’s reactions against black people because all black people are bad” is definitely racist
 
It is though. As a BAME person I find it deeply offensive.
Please, without paraphrasing and completely changing the meaning of his words, explain what exactly is offensive. I’m sure he had no intention of offending you and would gladly apologize for having caused offense (intentional or not), but I really don’t see anything in his words that could be construed as offensive.

Some Japanese people are biased against people of color, the Yakuza series reflects this at times and, as from his own experience this seems a fair representation of the prejudice faced by people of color over here, including it in the game makes more sense than pretending the problem doesn’t exist.

Acknowledging that racism exists does not make him a racist.
 
I think its fine to have a mission like this in the game when this topic is clearly a topic in real life.
And its not like "hey look, they are all bad", its just the example of one bad person.
So they are just saying that this problem exists or that there are people who are afraid about it.
And its not even the evil black guy, he is working for a group of white foreigners in the game,
so hes not the only threat. His superiors are bad white foreigners.

BUT in the same game, there are also missions where Kiryu meets a super nice black guy
and Kiryu even teaches the children of his orphanage that its not okay to judge people because of skin colors.
All in the same game.

So as long as it has a good balance i think its fine to adress these themes.
Of course it can look a bit "weird" for other regions especially in the west but i think its very important to remember
that there are tons of cultural differences between US, EU, Asia and so on.
Pointing at a different region or culture from the other side of the world
and saying "they are bad because its offensive" is pretty close-minded.
 
Just reading through the comments theres nothing which is suggesting anyone is racist, rather than the topic at hand which seems to be an issue in Japan and has been misconstrued as something more sinister.
 
Please, without paraphrasing and completely changing the meaning of his words, explain what exactly is offensive. I’m sure he had no intention of offending you and would gladly apologize for having caused offense (intentional or not), but I really don’t see anything in his words that could be construed as offensive.

Some Japanese people are biased against people of color, the Yakuza series reflects this at times and, as from his own experience this seems a fair representation of the prejudice faced by people of color over here, including it in the game makes more sense than pretending the problem doesn’t exist.

Acknowledging that racism exists does not make him a racist.

He’s not acknowledging, he’s excusing. Therein lies the issue.


Just reading through the comments theres nothing which is suggesting anyone is racist, rather than the topic at hand which seems to be an issue in Japan and has been misconstrued as something more sinister.

You’re being racist by being complicit in this matter.
 
He’s not acknowledging, he’s excusing. Therein lies the issue.




You’re being racist by being complicit in this matter.
Does acknowledging that mass-murder and sexism exist make me a misogynistic serial-killer?

I agree with you that racism shouldn’t be tolerated here (or anywhere), but recognizing that it exists and excusing it are two very different things.

I suggest re-reading Daniel’s post before continuing with the mud-slinging.
 
He’s not acknowledging, he’s excusing. Therein lies the issue.




You’re being racist by being complicit in this matter.
You're being exceptionally ott. Racism isn't tolerated here towards anyone BAME or anyone else.

Re-read the post and allow him to explain himself before jumping to conclusions
 
Okay....a lot to unravel here. Apparently my comments caused a shit show so bare with me.

Now, why is it your friends hate Nigerians? What's the connection to Japan's archaic phobia of drugs? Seems to be a bit of a jump there...? Perhaps your friends aren't a great example of average or majority Japanese? I think a bit of confusion--for me at least--is the vague and poor wording of your statements. Care to clairfy @danielmann861? Help us out here, because bigotry isn't cool, and I don't believe you intended to be racist or descriminatory.

You would believe correctly. There was no racist intent in what I wrote. It was simply an observation to what Tosh was talking about. We were talking about a side story that deals with human trafficking. There are issues with human trafficking in Japan that are directly tied to Nigerian Gangs among others (Iranian, Japanese Yakuza, Chinese Mafia, Russian Mafia and so on).

My friends have disdain for the Nigerian touts due to reasons such as this. I figured that was obvious considering the context of the conversation at hand and I didn't think it was gonna get blown out of proportion like it did. That we weren't talking about the entire Japanese Nigerian community, rather we were talking about something in relation to what Tosh brought up and how it leads to a common sentiment of mistrust among the Japanese.

Are we all forgetting that Japan is largely a homogeneous society and there is a common sentiment of mistrust of foreigners still within? That's not to say everyone in Japan is a raving bigot...but I assumed that too was obvious.

My friends are fantastic people. They mean well, but I do understand some of their issues with some of these Nigerian touts and gangs. I feel like the issue at hand is that I didn't come down and state the obvious that "racism is bad!" or condemn my friends for having opinions.

And now I'm being charged as if these views were my own because I didn't say the bloody obvious statement that "Racism is Bad"...again, I thought it was just assumed that this is an observation of how art reflects life and not my own personal view point.

These are relevant issues within Japan. As @tomboz pointed out (and did a much better job of elaborating ..thank you @tomboz for being a voice of reason here and your replies are well written and do a much better job elaborating what I was trying to say in my original post.)

The only intent I had to say was that the game is at least honest in reflecting the society it exists in.

I don't know how this became me supposedly saying this:

Saying “I can understand people’s reactions against black people because all black people are bad” is definitely racist

That's @RedSnake putting words in my mouth that simply weren't there at all. Which I do not appreciate @RedSnake

I'm sorry if you took offence to anything I wrote. But all I can say is there was no offence intended and I do believe that you have misconstrued what I wrote. I do not feel ashamed for anything I wrote in that post. Because I know there was ZERO intent of racism on my behalf. And I do not appreciate you trying to put words into my mouth that simply weren't there. This may work on Twitter or other forums, but I refuse to feel shame for making a general observation that was relevant in context with the discussion at hand.

Making a general observation is not the same as expressing an opinion.
 
Last edited:
Hi Daniel

I’m a lurker so apologies for not having the social gravitas to stick my oar in here, but what do you mean by this?

Your post screams racism from my perspective and while it might be considered a chalked warning to normal members I certainly don’t expect attitude like this from site staff of Shenmue’s main forum. Standards need to be upheld.

You’re essentially saying all black people are bad news. We have enough of this toxic rhetoric in our political sphere without ignoramuses bringing it onto here.

Shame on you.

Saying “I can understand people’s reactions against black people because all black people are bad” is definitely racist

Really? Can it.

Hide behind the lurker label as much as you want, but in the two threads I've seen you post in the last 24 hours, you've baited and made inflammatory marks against the fans of Shenmue/Yu Suzuki (that are completely uncalled for) and you've accused someone who has LIFE EXPERIENCE (as do I and, as mentioned, Tomboz), with Nigerians in Shinjuku.

This is an isolated, INCREDIBLY-tiny part of the entire world, where an ethnic group (at the absolute most, a couple thousand people and it's probably less) does shady things and will invade your space to help stoke the flames of an illegal act (trafficking, underage prostitution, etc.), under the guise of, "come to our club and get a deal on a drink, etc., etc." In absolutely no way is that generalising the entire Black population in the world today. Surely, the majority of us have had many black friends all throughout their lives (I sure do) and we are all tolerant, accepting people.

Only one tout even came around, the 2 hours we were in Kabukicho, but he would not leave myself and my wife alone until we just ignored him and walked faster; it's fine if we came to Japan to partake in this seedy shit, but no, we came as tourists and to enjoy a real-life location that is in one of my favourite video games (it was the only issue we had in Kabukicho; it's AWESOME during the day). In no way did I show any interest of going to a bar or hostess/sex/whatever club, that's borderline abuse (I don't consider it, but some people do). This isn't even getting political/into the root of what Dan and Tomboz were getting at (mine is just personal experience; there is a ton more of horrible acts going down with those people, as they alluded to). Hell, Japanese touts that don't speak any English (2 of them, actually), saw me wearing a RIZE shirt while walking back to my hotel and commented, "Oh, Rizer! (Japanese I couldn't understand)." They didn't harass me or follow me endlessly.

Until you've actually been in that situation, in that country, in that TINY COLLECTION OF A HANDFUL OF CITY BLOCKS, get down off of your pedestal.

Not even going to touch this ridiculous, "BAME," crap; we're all human beings, we all have the same rights; if white, yellow, grey or purple people were doing this in Kabukicho, we normal, level-headed people would say the same thing. It's not about race, it's about morals, laws, ethics.

Jesus Christ, everyone is triggered over the tiniest, throwaway comment nowadays :mad:

No video I could find. I got mine around the China town district (near the big park area by the harbour; near Dragon Kart). All I did was engage in combat and knock one of the enemies out on the road with a regular physical attack. Just as they were standing up they got hit and killed by an oncoming car and ping went the trophy.

Only advice is to keep trying.You’ll probably get it at some point.

Moving into Chapter 13.

—Cleaned up some more trophies and side stories.

— Got all human powers/attributes maxed out.

— Finished off the social links for all but one character in my party.

— Played a shit ton of the Trash Collection mini game to finish leveling up my Passion attributes. Got all three stages S ranked. That little mini game is indeed a ton of fun.

Got the trophy for 20 banquet conversations.

— Got Ichiban laid 3 times :D (there are side stories attached to the girls you can date...for the record)

— Trophy percentage now sits at 72%. Very sure I’ll platinum this unless something stands in my way.

— Chapter 12 is pretty damn awesome as a whole

Go figure; the 3rd fight of my playthrough yesterday, I hit a group of guys with Ichiban's swinging bat attack and one of the goes flying off-screen. Cue a few seconds later when I'm attacking someone else with Adachi and I can see in the corner of the screen, the guy who went flying gets hit by the car and gets killed; popped trophy! lol

Come about an hour later in another fight and another guy gets hit; it's just random, I guess!

Started the movie-watching mini-game and I love it to death lol. I find those sheep/goats so damn funny! (makes for a good Halloween costume too).

Absolutely loving it so far; I was in a fight for 15 minutes, with the enemies in green suits who summon more guys; they kept coming and coming and I had depleted all of my resources and only Ichiban left, when there were 3 of them (one of them 1 attack away from death). Had I somehow completed that battle, surely the payout would've been over 10,000 yen and the XP an insane amount.
 
Notice how as soon as I make it known that I am a BAME you all seem to gang up on me. Coincidence? I think not
 
I looked up the term 3 seconds before I wrote it; I live in Canada so pardon me if I'm not on the up and up with European (specifically, British) slang/colloquialisms.

No coincidence; not to turn it personal (but I will), you've most-likely been wronged at some point in your life or, you believe strongly in a movement/methodology that conforms to your own beliefs. Absolutely cool and nothing wrong with that.

But to turn a simple comment, relating to a game that represents a tiny block of streets in a very small and isolated country, into a cry of racism and, "ganging up on me," (that specific line is DEFINITELY not a coincidence, as many who are part of these, "groups," feel marginalized and victimized, due to the nature of said, "groups)," is a cry for attention or to stir shit. Nothing more.

I use, "groups," in quotes, because in reality, any person is a regular human being; regardless of colour of skin, we are all identical from a physiological and mental standpoint; we aren't part of any group.

Turning a fun/game-centric conversation into a political and victimized conversation, is a massive dick move.

Plus, the fact that instead of responding coherently to our rebuttals, you've just played the victim card again and cried out, "marginalized!" shows that you really do have nothing to say, other than to fling shit.
 
The archetypal definition of whitesplaining. “I’m not offended so you shouldn’t be offended. Deal with it”. You don’t have any experience of what it’s like to be BAME so don’t go telling me what I can and can’t take offence to buddy
 
:LOL: ok, I know where this is going and I'm stepping out of it.

"Whitesplaining" :ROFLMAO:

Putting words in people's mouths is not a good look or thing to do.

Good luck in life and on the dojo. (y)
 
:LOL: ok, I know where this is going and I'm stepping out of it.

"Whitesplaining" :ROFLMAO:

Putting words in people's mouths is not a good look or thing to do.

Good luck in life and on the dojo. (y)

Always thought Canadians were supposed to be a progressive nation. Guess I was mistaken.

You’ve been extremely condescending in your replies, and taken umbrage with me for flagging a genuine issue. I can only assume it’s because of my race.
 
The archetypal definition of whitesplaining. “I’m not offended so you shouldn’t be offended. Deal with it”. You don’t have any experience of what it’s like to be BAME so don’t go telling me what I can and can’t take offence to buddy
As a white person, I take offense to the use of the word ‘whitesplaining’ and as someone with Canadian ancestry, the word ‘buddy’. Please could you edit your post to remove these offensive words?
 
Think it was pretty clear that the persons intentions joining these forums were to troll, bait or both. Either way, hes gone.

Back to discussion of the topic at hand.

EDIT: Just to add a little bit more info to the immediate banning, i had a look on the old forums and it would seem an old banned member is just bored on a Saturday afternoon. Accusing 2 staff members of being racist, as well as baiting across the forums. Yawn. Moving on.
 
Back
Top