Yu Suzuki Interview (IGN Japan): Reflections on S3, Plans for S4

It seems like RGG Studios' engine made it really easy for them to make basic cinematics. I understand their expertise was used for the new Sakura Wars. They also forego spoken dialogue in less important cutscenes. I understand these types of concessions are not popular with every fan, but I really hope Yu Suzuki considers any concession he can if it's the difference between plot progression.

In any case, it's a damned shame Sega won't lend that little extra helping hand. There's really no reason they can't help out, especially since it's a beloved & historically important IP that could grow with just a little help.
 
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You can yes, but I'm saying you shouldn't. When all other games graphics have improved do you want S4 to look the same as S3? Also you can only reuse the main characters, all the NPC's will have to be created.

Unless you mean using generic assets from the unreal store.

Visuals should be the last thing we should care about. Story and gameplay are the most important things for 4 as far as I'm concerned.
 
It seems like RGG Studios' engine made it really easy for them to make basic cinematics. I understand their expertise was used for the new Sakura Wars. They also forego spoken dialogue in less important cutscenes. I understand these types of concessions are not popular with every fan, but I really hope Yu Suzuki considers any concession he can if it's the difference between plot progression.

In any case, it's a damned shame Sega won't lend that little extra helping hand. There's really no reason they can't help out, especially since it's a beloved & historically important IP that could grow with just a little help.

They fully-voice EVERY cutscene.

It's the in-game dialogues that aren't fully-voiced.
 
Visuals should be the last thing we should care about. Story and gameplay are the most important things for 4 as far as I'm concerned.
Agreed. But I don't think Suzuki feels the same way.

Also, if he intends to market it to newcomers it won't look very good if he is reusing assets in a large way, it will make S4 look even more dated and alienating.
 
The Shenhua conversations were a good way to get character development without having to direct cutscenes, i.e. just cutting between the two characters without giving special regard to camera angles, lighting, etc. Having that for more side characters in Shenmue IV would be a good idea without having to go overboard on the budget.
 
Agreed. But I don't think Suzuki feels the same way.

Also, if he intends to market it to newcomers it won't look very good if he is reusing assets in a large way, it will make S4 look even more dated and alienating.
the game doesn’t look that bad, though. The animations are subpar at times and the pop-in is terrible, but I would imagine both will be fixed.
 
Agreed. But I don't think Suzuki feels the same way.

Also, if he intends to market it to newcomers it won't look very good if he is reusing assets in a large way, it will make S4 look even more dated and alienating.
Graphics or any kind of technical advances are not where Shenmue will ever be able to attract new players again and Suzuki would be foolish to chase that dragon. Have you seen DMC5? God of War? Uncharted? etc. There's no competing with that without a budget north of $100M for a game of Shenmue's size. Suzuki, more than ever, needs to decide what he wants Shenmue to be, and laser focus on that. The general rule of thumb is that if it looks fun to play, it probably is.
 
Graphics or any kind of technical advances are not where Shenmue will ever be able to attract new players again and Suzuki would be foolish to chase that dragon. Have you seen DMC5? God of War? Uncharted? etc. There's no competing with that without a budget north of $100M for a game of Shenmue's size. Suzuki, more than ever, needs to decide what he wants Shenmue to be, and laser focus on that. The general rule of thumb is that if it looks fun to play, it probably is.
I know. But knowing Suzuki he will want to stay as competitive as (realistically) possible, he said as much in the interview that he is always interested in challenging himself technically. Look at the comments from people for S3 calling it a PS2 game etc. how do you think it's going to look in the middle of next gen with a game looking the same? I know fans don't care. I don't care, and I prefer money be saved for more important things, but if you are looking to attract new audiences you need some kind of hook and dated graphics can turn a lot of people off without them looking deeper.

Also, a ton of new art assets will need to be created either way. Only the main characters will return so whether keeping the same fidelity as S3 or not, it will cost a lot of money to make.

I personally do not think that it's possible at this point to try and attract new audiences to Shenmue. Attempting to do so will result in compromises at best that will alienate existing fans and fail to attract new ones. Suzuki should be looking to save money and focus on what he feels is important for the future of Shenmue. If he stops trying to please everyone and just makes the best game possible he'll have a better chance of it being successful, maybe even with newcomers.
 
he said as much in the interview that he is always interested in challenging himself technically. Look at the comments from people for S3 calling it a PS2 game etc. how do you think it's going to look in the middle of next gen with a game looking the same?
The only challenge he should be interested in is working with what he has. Shenmue 3 doesn't even come close to the kind of fidelity we expect from games nowadays. Until Dawn came out 5 years ago and looks better than Shenmue could ever hope to, even on next gen hardware.

rami_screen.jpg


There's so much that goes into making a game look AAA (or anywhere close) that it's not possible to achieve if that's not the focus of the game or you don't have millions of dollars to burn. Until Dawn has a small cast of characters, limited interactivity, small environments, and a highly controlled location/atmosphere.

I actually liked that S3 leaned into a more stylized look, it would help Shenmue still look good while being able to avoid falling short of that photo-real bar. People think BotW is beautiful (and it is) and it's hardly pushing the limits of technology.

I personally do not think that it's possible at this point to try and attract new audiences to Shenmue. Attempting to do so will result in compromises at best that will alienate existing fans and fail to attract new ones. Suzuki should be looking to save money and focus on what he feels is important for the future of Shenmue.
It kind of sounds like S4 has to attract new players in order to be more profitable. I think it's totally possible (Yakuza didn't become popular until several sequels in) but, frankly, Shenmue needs to look like a fun game to play. You're not going to attract new players with single button minigames, conversations with no dialogue options or consequences, and a fighting system as janky looking as the one in S3 (especially in a game about martial arts).

This is what combat in Sleeping Dogs, a game from 2012 running on last gen hardware, looks like:

If you want to attract new players with your combat system and you can't make your combat look that good 10 years later, don't bother trying to attract new players with it or focus on something else.

If conversations are the focus, this is what conversations in Witcher 3 (came out wen the S3 Kickstarter was announced) look like:

The writing, voice acting, animation, camera work, attention to detail in the lighting and setting are all amazing (and the facial animation isn't even that good) and I'm sure that bar is going to get raised again when Cyberpunk comes out; if you want to attract new players with your story and dialogue system, then you need to be able to at least approach this level of quality. If not, focus on something else, etc.

I point this out only to emphasize that Shenmue needs to focus. What's it about? What's most important? And what is going to attract new players and please existing fans? Because new players have been playing lots of games in the last 20 years and no one is going to give you an A for effort. Shenmue can absolutely attract new players as long as it does something good enough to attract them. If not, and all of this sounds completely unreasonable, then Suzuki has all the information he needs to work backwards from and budget appropriately.
 
the game doesn’t look that bad, though. The animations are subpar at times and the pop-in is terrible, but I would imagine both will be fixed.

Everybody was pleasantly surprised by the technique of the game after getting the pad on their hands. Those who mocked him, the ones hmjohnny just mentionned, are likely the ones who actually didn't play the game I believe.

Besides fixing animation inconsistencies, I think it's important they make the charadesign more flexible and homogeneous. I'm not sure they can repeat the enormous villain/friend character trick anymore or Yu will have to find some storytelling to justify the increase of obesity cases in the country.

The more the story gets closer to the end, the more it's going to be dramatic, so obviously Suzuki is trying to spot critical details that might waste the momentum. And they did a marvelous job at the final chapter - although some animations were shockingly poor just before Ryo & Ren enter the ultimate room.
 
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Lighting and effects are a good way to hide a game's technical shortcomings in other areas. Was playing around with Nvidia Ansel and noticed you could add a Depth of Field effect. This could go some way into migitating the pop-in/LOD of the game without having to bump up draw distance/redesign asset streaming:

Shenmue 3 Screenshot 2020.05.01 - 20.30.39.55.png
 
If you want to attract new players with your combat system and you can't make your combat look that good 10 years later, don't bother trying to attract new players with it or focus on something else.

I wonder if adding inbetween animations and throws will lead to some game changer though, at least for the fans we are. The combat blatantly lacked of gameplay value and refinement but I thought the basic structure was fairly solid, including the weight of impact.
Don't know if it's going to be enough for new players but I'm defo looking forward to the combat system 1.5.
 
I wonder if adding inbetween animations and throws will lead to some game changer though, at least for the fans we are. The combat blatantly lacked of gameplay value and refinement but I thought the basic structure was fairly solid, including the weight of impact.
Don't know if it's going to be enough for new players but I'm defo looking forward to the combat system 1.5.

I thought switching between special moves with the bumper buttons was a clever way to let less technical players execute such moves. The problem for most players is the delayed input when using the face buttons, and the lack of a dedicated dodge button. Heck, the game never even explains that double-tapping the analogue stick in a direction is a dodge. A good compromise would be to still switch special moves with a bumper button, while maybe reserving one as a dedicated dodge button, getting rid of the delayed input face button scheme, and allowing the use of the d-pad.
 
Lighting and effects are a good way to hide a game's technical shortcomings in other areas. Was playing around with Nvidia Ansel and noticed you could add a Depth of Field effect. This could go some way into migitating the pop-in/LOD of the game without having to bump up draw distance/redesign asset streaming:
Baked lighting is also something to consider. Atm Shenmue is completely real time (the sun moves and the shadows react dynamically) but if you bake the lighting, it looks orders of magnitude better, the downside is that the game has to load every time the lighting changes (so probably a different loading time for sunny, rainy, sunset, in addition to night). GTA's lighting is totally real time and Spider-Man PS4 is baked for instance (just to get a sense of the difference it makes).

Don't know if it's going to be enough for new players but I'm defo looking forward to the combat system 1.5.
A good compromise would be to still switch special moves with a bumper button, while maybe reserving one as a dedicated dodge button, getting rid of the delayed input face button scheme, and allowing the use of the d-pad.
I'm just hoping for a little more depth/strategy. If throw moves are coming back maybe have there be a strategic difference between throws and strikes? Like you have to dodge throws and block strikes. if you dodge or block perfectly it can give you a chance to counter, maybe with a quick QTE (like when you practice moves). And obviously enemies will punish you for trying to throw/strike when you're not supposed to. Something like that to provide a little more thought to the combat. Totally agree that dodge needs to be its own button.
 
The delayed input didn't bother me that much tbh, but I don't agree calling the shortcut buttons clever. It might sound good for noobs but it won't make the combat more interesting, it might even make it worse and boring for them.

Moreover, I believe managing both "manual" and "automatic" moves make Yu's task harder to balance as a game designer. In some lets plays, players just needed to repeat the same move to win the combat. The issue was already there in Shenmue 1 & 2 at some point but I find it barely acceptable in a modern game.

That's why I said earlier I wish Yu was seeking ways to help newcomers to embrace Shenmue's philosophy rather adding casual-friendly features and other workarounds. Helping players to deny major aspects of the game only means accelerate their bore, not to have a better opinion of the game.
 
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Thank you @Switch for the translation, your work is very much appreciated around here. Honestly, this interview was something I needed to reinvigorate my spirits for Shenmue. The constant maelstrom of negativity swirling around Shenmue III is exhausting (though to be fair, I have contributed my fair share as well). So to see Suzuki in such high spirits despite all of that is refreshing. He's taking the constructive criticism leveled at his work to improve it for the benefit of his fans. His passion and forward-thinking nature have not wavered one iota.

I don't know about anyone else here, but I still have total confidence in Suzuki's ideas for Shenmue IV and beyond. I know realistically he won't be able to implement them all, but I know he'll put his all into whatever he's developing. It's now just a matter of getting a Shenmue IV by making our voices loud and clear.
 
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Agreed. But I don't think Suzuki feels the same way.

Also, if he intends to market it to newcomers it won't look very good if he is reusing assets in a large way, it will make S4 look even more dated and alienating.

You had the same thought I did when I read that post. That’s why so far you are one of my favorite posters.
I’ve definitely seen so far that Yu Suzuki is more of a technologist/engineer and probably leveraged the help of a writing team with Shenmue II to make an epic and cinematic story experience. As a standalone writer, he seems to have a disconnect with the small, minutae of the plot that has created all these messy plotholes and retcons we’ve been bashing his team over.
I would definitely support a Shenmue IV, and would contribute if they go that route, but FFS please do not assume all Shenmue fans want more of the same tedious filler that made Shenmue III a bit of a mess.
When the interviewer started asking him about improvements in SIV, I almost expected him to say “more smartball, more lucky hit, more forklifting” like Dude, NO! No more fan servicing
 
Not really. I mean look how popular PSO2 is and those visuals look hella dated lol.
People are willing to accept a huge spectrum of graphics from a tech/asset perspective as long as their expectations are properly informed. Absolutely no one in the history of this universe has ever complained Ys VIII (an absolutely gorgeous game btw) didn't have PS4 level assets. Or even PS3 level assets, for that matter.
 
Exactly. Shenmue IV doesn't need better graphics to pull in new players. It needs to tell a more engaging story, better characterisation (including English VO that is more naturalistic...or none at all), a more engaging progression structure, and deeper combat.

The game didn't get mixed reviews because of its graphics.
 
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